I'm ordering a 2015 f150 Monday, help please!

[nyryan2001]

Ahopkins- no, I'm not in the auto industry.

And yes absolutely, 100% agree. I run 10ply 80PSI light truck tires on my Tundra and last summer upgraded to a 10k tated triple axel trailer... Where my axels and tires are now at 60% capacity vs 90-110%. The trip axel trailer makes a huge difference in stability, better braking and less trailer flex. Trailer flex is bad at highway speeds, we can talk more on that.

But axel and tire capacity doesn't excuse a tow vehicle that compromised by being overloaded. Look back up at that rig a few posts ago.... Think 70mph, a series of bad dips, tongue weight momentum onto that truck hitch... That boat's tongue weight goes from 700lbs to 2000lbs, nearly causing the truck to pop a wheelie.... What is his truck's braking and suspension like towing through that series of dips? THATS what the new SAE standards are after with the 5k weight carrying hitch ratings.

The WDH with torsion bars ratings transfer 40-50% of that tongue weight to the front tires under all conditions allowing stable braking and suspension. The SAE tests put weight carrying tow limits around 5k on most of our 1/2tons.

[ahopkins22LSV]

Yeah I understand all of the facts about the capacity and towing. I wasn't trying to excuse be over on the tow vehicle with the trailer setup. And the auto industry question was just a general question to satisfy my own curiosity.

[nyryan2001]

I'm hoping this new Titan XD diesel this summer with go north of 5k... Or perhaps the new diesel Tundra avail this fall. Both are coming in heavier in all aspects, suspension, steering tires and drivetrain

[Slayer]

My money is on the 2017 Ford Super Duty. That's when the major changes will occur. I think 2016 is going to be much like 2015. I don't even think the aluminum will be present in the SD until 2017. I don't need the capacity of the SD for anything I do and based on where I live and what I do, I'll never be in a Nissan or a Toyota.

Edited June 11, 2015 by inlandlaker

[Technicallyabu]

Even if these trucks were sae rated for 10kips it wont help drivers with bad habits.

Have the 5.0 in one of our f150s. Test drove the 2016 with the 3.7 eco. Its not even a fair comparison the aluminum body and eco is that much better. I just dont like the complexity which is why ill stick with the 5.0 for my next one.

[nyryan2001]

The references towards GM being spaz'd by Ford's aluminum and Eco's are after seeing non-stop Chevy commercials last few months with submarines breaking up through the polar ice caps bragging about how strong Chevy's steel bodies are. That's them throwing a barb at Ford. I don't think any consumer drives the Ford, Chevy, Dodge and Toyota lots knocking on the fender panels and choosing from that to buy their truck.

Generally a good sales strategy is to sell your product on its own merits, not base it on someone else's innovation you haven't matched and then throw barbs at it.

[bamabonners]

The references towards GM being spaz'd by Ford's aluminum and Eco's are after seeing non-stop Chevy commercials last few months with submarines breaking up through the polar ice caps bragging about how strong Chevy's steel bodies are. That's them throwing a barb at Ford. I don't think any consumer drives the Ford, Chevy, Dodge and Toyota lots knocking on the fender panels and choosing from that to buy their truck.

Generally a good sales strategy is to sell your product on its own merits, not base it on someone else's innovation you haven't matched and then throw barbs at it.

I laugh every time I see those commercials. GM needs to worry about the their vibrating trucks. I just can't believe all the buy backs, BBB claims, lemon law claims haven't gained more attention with their trucks. I've heard of some competitor dealerships that won't take the new GM trucks in on trade because of the number of people dumping their vibrators on them.

[DAI]

I had back-to-back Yukon Denali's (same body style, MY 2007 and 2010) going back to 2007 before I bought the 2015 F150. Overall both were good trucks, but the one thing that drove me nuts once someone pointed it out to me was that the steering wheel did not line up to the center of the drivers seat (offset). Ignorance was bliss.

[Falko]

I do hope Ford's aluminum bodies are different than the bubblicious tailgate I had on my Expedition. That only took about 3 years to show its true colors, or corrosion as the case may be.

How long have people been towing their boats with 1/2 tons, and very few incidents have occurred. Now all of a sudden because someone has changed the rating system, we have to be scared about towing our 5k# boats with our 6k# trucks? Did SAE re-assign physics values as well?

[Slayer]

I do hope Ford's aluminum bodies are different than the bubblicious tailgate I had on my Expedition. That only took about 3 years to show its true colors, or corrosion as the case may be.

How long have people been towing their boats with 1/2 tons, and very few incidents have occurred. Now all of a sudden because someone has changed the rating system, we have to be scared about towing our 5k# boats with our 6k# trucks? Did SAE re-assign physics values as well?

Be careful....nyryan is likely to call you a liberal for asking such questions.....lol...

I too hope that the new F150 in aluminum body panels does better than the expedition tailgate. I'm going to be buying a new truck in 2017 and the super duty will be available in aluminum then as well....just not sure I need the 3/4 ton....want, but don't need....

I'm interested to see how the aluminum performs in the new F150. We too had an expedition that had the bubblicious aluminum gate. I'm on my 3rd F150 with an aluminum hood and I've had no issue with any of them. I think the gate issue with the expeditions had a lot to do with how the gate was designed to drain water and much less to do with the fact that it was aluminum. JMHO, but that's how it appears to me.

Yea.....the SAE issues with the 1/2 tons are kind of an interesting treat. I'd explain my experience further, but I don't need to be publicly berated by nyryan any further as he is clearly the subject expert. All the aforementioned being said, he's correct in how the SAE's ratings have changed and equally correct on how the OEM equipment is labeled.... It doesn't mean that the vehicle cannot safely tow what the claimed ratings are. It's merely a CYA maneuver on behalf of the automakers in the event that something should go wrong.

Edited June 13, 2015 by inlandlaker

[nyryan2001]

How long have people been towing their boats with 1/2 tons, and very few incidents have occurred. Now all of a sudden because someone has changed the rating system, we have to be scared about towing our 5k# boats with our 6k# trucks? Did SAE re-assign physics values as well?

Inland, quit your crying, no one berated you. Key here was to ensure OP knew his truck would be out be out of compliance unless he went with the PITA WDH. I need a 3/4ton myself, I'm well beyond SAE in mine also.

Falko, Good point, but think about the trend in the last 3-4yrs with wakeboats. Heavier and heavier.

So no, physics hasn't changed, the boats' weights have, and are edging 1/2tons out of a SAE compliant regular tow for wakeboats.

Looking at the new Malibus: the Respknse, VTX and the VLX? are the only two Malibus now that can be towed by a 1/2ton after they have - trailer, options, fluids, fuel and gear.

22vlx, 22mxz, 23LSV, 247, 24MXZ all are well over 5k. Rewind 15-20 yrs and how many were under 5k then being towed by 1/2tons safely. Mostly all were.

Don't hate the player hate the game fellas.

Edited June 13, 2015 by nyryan2001

[JoeA]

Must say after years of being in and out of several different trucks, I decided I ain't freakin' around anymore.

Just picked up my next tow rig and could not be more excited. I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. DRW, 21+ mpg and endless capability.

Just a teaser till she's where I want her.

Can I ask what a DRW is?

[shawndoggy]

^^^ dual rear wheel aka "dualie"

[JoeA]

Thanks Shawn.

[Soon2BV]

. Think 70mph, a series of bad dips, tongue weight momentum onto that truck hitch... That boat's tongue weight goes from 700lbs to 2000lbs, nearly causing the truck to pop a wheelie....

Sorry but i gotta call you out on that one. Tongue weight is tongue weight. Please explain your math.

[Soon2BV]

Appears that GMC / Chevy trucks are compliant, beginning with the 2015 model year.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/06/2015-chevy-silverado-1500-and-gmc-sierra-1500-are-j2807-compliant.html

Also keep in mind there is a difference between the towing rating of the vehicle and the ratings of the hitch.

I can have a 10,000 pound rating on my truck, but if i put a class II hitch on it i am limited to 3500 pounds.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Soon2BV

[IXFE]

So... this really sucks because what it means is that you can't tow a wakeboat AND haul a family of six. No such vehicle exists.

This is my predicament.

[nyryan2001]

Sorry but i gotta call you out on that one. Tongue weight is tongue weight. Please explain your math.

No it's not, tongue weight is not static, not even close. That static at rest 750lb tongue weight can easily double... Even on a normal tow.

Think about this. A 200lb guy jumps off the tailgate of his truck onto a weight scale on the ground. You think the max force will be 200lbs?? No way, you'll see well over 200 from a 2ft drop. Same applies to your trailer tongue weight on the highway.

In a series of badly timed dips... It might first actually apply negative tongue weight.... As in pull up on the reciever then go straight into a x2 to x3 weight downward push as the weight comes back down. Now imagine this scenario on the rig pictured earlier in this thread.... Going downhill, on a curve, and then emergency brake situation.

And all we've really been talking about is the tow vehicle... I need to post up about keeping your trailers at 90%+capacity and what can happen there. That's a whole other topic.

Seems like a bunch of you want to keep your heads in the sand and ignore the facts, ratings and reality about where we are with these newer 6-8k lb wakeboats and 1/2tons. Things have changed in the last time few years. You can argue, claim you've been violated and berated. Facts are facts boys. This reminds me of the 2315 threads a few years back.

The only reason why I bother to bother to banter with you guys is it might save someone the troubles I've been through, and that the actual facts might be of value to some folks versus homespun experience rationale.

[nyryan2001]

IXFE- you need a 3/4ton crew cab without the huge fixed center console... I know Ford F250s and the Ram 3/4t's I'm have them. You can seat 6 like that, Brady Bunch style lol.

Again fellas, I'm in the same boat, I should have a 3/4t myself.

[Soon2BV]

No it's not, tongue weight is not static, not even close. That static at rest 750lb tongue weight can easily double... Even on a normal tow.

Think about this. A 200lb guy jumps off the tailgate of his truck onto a weight scale on the ground. You think the max force will be 200lbs?? No way, you'll see well over 200 from a 2ft drop. Same applies to your trailer tongue weight on the highway.

You are confusing terms. Weight is weight. Force is different. If you are going to make an engineering argument, use engineering terms.

To be specific, F=MA (Force - Mass x Acceleration), so yes, when the guy jumps off his tailgate the force he exerts is greater than 200 pounds. The guy still weights 200 pounds. And the tongue weight is still what it was.

The movement of the trailer from the bounce is creating some loads on the hitch and frame. It is putting a Moment load on the hitch, and that load has to be reacted by the hitch, truck frame, and the bolts holding hitch to the frame.

[ahopkins22LSV]

You are confusing terms. Weight is weight. Force is different. If you are going to make an engineering argument, use engineering terms.

To be specific, F=MA (Force - Mass x Acceleration), so yes, when the guy jumps off his tailgate the force he exerts is greater than 200 pounds. The guy still weights 200 pounds. And the tongue weight is still what it was.

The movement of the trailer from the bounce is creating some loads on the hitch and frame. It is putting a Moment load on the hitch, and that load has to be reacted by the hitch, truck frame, and the bolts holding hitch to the frame.

Plus the suspension, wheels and tires.. long line that force travels back to the ground.

[nyryan2001]

You are confusing terms. Weight is weight. Force is different. If you are going to make an engineering argument, use engineering terms.

To be specific, F=MA (Force - Mass x Acceleration), so yes, when the guy jumps off his tailgate the force he exerts is greater than 200 pounds. The guy still weights 200 pounds. And the tongue weight is still what it was.

The movement of the trailer from the bounce is creating some loads on the hitch and frame. It is putting a Moment load on the hitch, and that load has to be reacted by the hitch, truck frame, and the bolts holding hitch to the frame.

Great, you are giving me a lesson.

I'm not confusing anything. My point is 750lb tongue weight can be -1x or likely up to 2-3x through a series of bad dips. Made that clear as day.

in whatever world you live in Soon your 750lb tongue weight pushing down on the back of your truck can be a lot more that that sometimes. K?

[Falko]

I wouldn't argue boats are getting heavier. My thought is the trucks today are getting stronger, and yet we're now reducing their abilities (on paper anyway). Why are they doing that, just for CYA? Seems ridiculous. My thought on it is that halfer trucks are considered light vehicles. They also contribute to the overall mandatory CAFE ratings that manufacturers have to meet. Whereas 3/4 rigs do not contribute, they don't even get fuel ratings. Force people to go 3/4 ton and the manufacturers lose the more inefficient vehicles (and the biggest sector of them) from their CAFE ratings and keep from getting drawn down.

I had a '97 Ram 1500 2WD in FL. Towed a 7000# boat with a bunch, it was heavy, went careful, never had an issue. I would expect the new trucks on the market are much more capable than that Ram but now can only tow 5000# safely because someone decided so? On what premise? I hate getting nannied....

[nyryan2001]

Ya I agree with you on this.

But what's been happening in this and other threads is folks don't want to acknowledge the facts of where we are now in 2015 with towboat weights and 1/2ton capacities. They want to argue, twist the discussion, hurl personal insults like children after they get caught short on facts and feel silly.

If after understanding they are beyond spec, folks choose to accept the inherent risks of towing beyond spec, then at least they do so in an informed manner. That's all I'm about. For a long time I didn't know myself, prolly because folks are reluctant to speak up against the prevailing F150 holy grail consensus as the loudmouths will shout them down vs stay on topic and talk specifics.

But you cant start a F150 thread about towing a 22MXZ and say please help and not expect at least a note to the OP letting him know he'd be beyond spec. FACT: HE'D BE 2-3k lbs WELL BEYOND SPEC. Whatever he chooses to do after that is his choice.

As to the conservative nature of the SAE ratings, its either take it or leave it and where you are with the risks you assume if you ignore. I believe the SAE ratings absolutely are very conservative in nature, for an average driver, in the worst conditions he may encounter. Taking into consideration environmental conditions, terrain conditions, road conditions, equipment failures, and other traffic influences for a truck with a given load. A 7k load on flat roads in Florida is a cakewalk compared to the downhill curvy portion of I-64 thru West Virginia, a 7 mile 5-6%? curvy downgrade through he mountains on wet roads thru overpass dips when someone slams their brakes in front of you when your brakes are glowing red hot smoking from hard braking the last 4 mins. How would that squatted rig pictured earlier in here fare in that situation?

Again I am not justifying SAE rules, just point out the 10-12k lb banner ratings you see on websites are for the sheep who don't go into the towing guides to see the 4 font text where their 1/2tons are actually rated at 5k with only a 150lb driver, no options and no gear.

Hoping the new 2016 Nissan XD and 2016 Tundras with upgraded suspensions, steering etc will get into the 8k range for a regular tow.

[robbennett]

The main advantage to having these ratings is to compare towing specs between manufacturers. The problem with them is assuming everyone is towing in the same conditions. My F-150 is more than enough for the towing that I do in Georgia, but if I was towing down the steep grade on I-70 into Denver in 6 inches of snow it would definitely not be enough truck.

Edited June 15, 2015 by robbennett