Jump to content

 

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
67King

PW2 v/s original, Diamond v/s wake hull for skiing

Recommended Posts

67King

Greetings. Thinking of upgrading from a 2011 Axis A22. Have had my eye on a left over 2014 22 MXZ, and am really interested - price is right, options are right, etc. But as I've started looking, I've fallen into the "while I'm at it stage......" There is a 2015 VLX at which I'm looking, but also considering ordering one with a Diamond hull.

So, three possibilities:

1) Existing 2014 MXZ (original wedge)

2) Existing 2015 VLX with Wake hull (but new Power Wedge II)

3) Ordering 2015 VLX with Diamond hull

Bottom line, I'm looking for feedback from anyone who skis with one of hte more typical wakeboard boats. Especially if they have a 2015 with the new Power Wedge. Can anyone tell me if using it to lift the boat out of the water can help soften the wake for skiing, or is that just to get it on plane more quickly when towing w/ lots of ballast? Similarly, how much does the diamond hull soften the wake at 30MPH? Skiing will be secondary, but I'd like to be able to do it. Just wondering if the differnce is big enough to warrant A) Walking away from a really good deal on a 2014 or B) Ordering a 2015 wiht a Diamond Hull. Boats are at different dealers, so I'd rather get a third party opinion.

FWIW, I grew up skiing, but now mostly surf, may wakeboard a little. MOre concerned about the kids. 10 y/o twins, and a 5 y/o. Twins ski, just started trying to wakeboard last year. We will likely do a little bit of skiing, but mostly wakeboarding and surfing. I have no experience with different hulls or anything other than the floating wedge on the Axis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahopkinsVTX

The new PWII will not function at ski speeds. Also, the MXZ will be terrible for even recreational skiing. The new VLX is much bigger than the previous gen, but that on diamond hull would be your best bet. VLX has a pretty decent out of the box surf wave with the Plug n Play option. Of course most people add more weight and it only gets better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fman

I have the wake hull on my 15 vlx, the ski wake is actually not bad at 32-34 mph with front ballast tank full. It was too big imo to slalom at 30mph and under and cut, need to be in the 32-34 mph range. If you are towing kids for slalom skiing at 22-25mph no way, it would be horrible for them trying to ski behind the boat unless they stay right behind the boat. Bottom line the VLX is a wakeboard boat, if skiing is your thing, would look at the VTX, much better results.

The VLX does surf well, I am running 800s in each locker with a 650-700 lb bow bag, don't really have much to compare to but seems to be a very nice wave. The Pw2 is awesome for wakeboarding, no doubt a huge upgrade from prior power wedge. Not to mention the hydraulic single actuation rather than the dual lento tabs which consistently you read about on here failing. You are also getting a much better helm in the 2015, the new touch screen dash and mtc are a nice upgrade. Plus the G3.2 tower not has quick release latching rather than the screw in knobs. I say go with the 2015 VLX if you wakeboard and surf majority of the time, not sure if the diamond hull really would change slalom wake much, sure it can't hurt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tanglin

The 15 VLX with Diamond hull is acceptable for slalom but as noted above you need to be @32mph or above for the hull to work properly . The PWl2 also removes the rooster tail at 22 ft off, flattens the wake slightly but more importantly softens the wake considerably as it has the hull running flatter. We simply touch the alarm notice that appears on screen at 26-28mph and carry on . While the PWl2 is not intended for skiing (at this stage) some rough calculations suggest less force on the hull and fittings albeit up rather than down, than when the wedge is deployed at 26mph @45degree angle of attack. A slight increase in drag obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahopkinsVTX

The 15 VLX with Diamond hull is acceptable for slalom but as noted above you need to be @32mph or above for the hull to work properly . The PWl2 also removes the rooster tail at 22 ft off, flattens the wake slightly but more importantly softens the wake considerably as it has the hull running flatter. We simply touch the alarm notice that appears on screen at 26-28mph and carry on . While the PWl2 is not intended for skiing (at this stage) some rough calculations suggest less force on the hull and fittings albeit up rather than down, than when the wedge is deployed at 26mph @45degree angle of attack. A slight increase in drag obviously.

So you are saying you are running the PWII in the lift position for skiing and just ignore the alarm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fman

The 15 VLX with Diamond hull is acceptable for slalom but as noted above you need to be @32mph or above for the hull to work properly . The PWl2 also removes the rooster tail at 22 ft off, flattens the wake slightly but more importantly softens the wake considerably as it has the hull running flatter. We simply touch the alarm notice that appears on screen at 26-28mph and carry on . While the PWl2 is not intended for skiing (at this stage) some rough calculations suggest less force on the hull and fittings albeit up rather than down, than when the wedge is deployed at 26mph @45degree angle of attack. A slight increase in drag obviously.

News to me too, did not realize you could actually use the lift feature for high speed applications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunscape fan

The 15 VLX with Diamond hull is acceptable for slalom but as noted above you need to be @32mph or above for the hull to work properly . The PWl2 also removes the rooster tail at 22 ft off, flattens the wake slightly but more importantly softens the wake considerably as it has the hull running flatter. We simply touch the alarm notice that appears on screen at 26-28mph and carry on . While the PWl2 is not intended for skiing (at this stage) some rough calculations suggest less force on the hull and fittings albeit up rather than down, than when the wedge is deployed at 26mph @45degree angle of attack. A slight increase in drag obviously.

I would think the stress on the hull and transom would be incredible. I would listen to the alarm and the owners manual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bunji169

I think Tanglin is correct about the lift feature for skiing. If you think about the force on the hull running the wedge in the most aggressive deployed position at 25mph fully sacked out (Which is within acceptable speed rating of deployed wedge) it's gotta be exponentially more stress on the hull and wedge assembly vs. running only 7mph faster with the wedge in lift position which is lifting the hull out of the water instead of sucking it down, along with no ballast. There is no way that can be worse for the boat.

Edited by bunji169

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
67King

Thanks everyone for their replies. Going to at least call, possibly visit, a dealer today. Unfortunatley, the dealer near me from whom I bought my Axis is no longer a Malibu dealer, so it is a little harder to head over to see one. Looks like a VLX with a diamond hull will suit me best (VTX is going to be too small - need more space, and Fort Loudon Lake gets pretty crowded). Hope it doesn't kill the surf wake. I run the A22 with full ballast, full PnP (750's in the rear), and the Wicked Wake for comparison. I'd call the wake for skiing acceptable.

On the wedge down for skiing......I would think it would be much less hard on the boat, as well. Not just magnitude, but the type of load. In the normal position, it'll be dragging down the bottom of the boat, but it will also be pulling it rearward, putting the bolts in tension. However, I'd expect that in the "lift" position, it would only be pushing up, which would put the joint in shear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chattwake

If I was weighing the choice of waiting and ordering vs. taking something that's available (assuming you like the options), and the determining factor was wake/diamond hull, I'd definitely demo the wake hull boat that's available to see if the ski wake is satisfactory.

Unless I'm mistaken, a wake hull 22 vlx is going to ski better than an A22.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahopkinsVTX

I could be wrong but I would much rather have the wedge components in a tension state than shear. Also, factor in the 32-34mph, that is A LOT more force applied that 23-25mph. I would be listening to the manufacture until the officially release something or develop something. But hey, if you are willing to go for it, more power to ya.

I don't think you will notice a difference in the surf wave with the Diamond hull.

Edited by ahopkinsTXi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
67King

I could be wrong but I would much rather have the wedge components in a tension state than shear. Also, factor in the 32-34mph, that is A LOT more force applied that 23-25mph. I would be listening to the manufacture until the officially release something or develop something. But hey, if you are willing to go for it, more power to ya.

I don't think you will notice a difference in the surf wave with the Diamond hull.

Bolts can handle higher shear loads than tensile loads. But more importantly, I'm thinking about the hull. In tension, you are essentially pulling from the middle of a pretty big piece of fiberglass, meaning you are placing a pretty big moment onto the middle of the glass where the wedge anchors. Conversely, when the bolts are in shear, you are putting a compressive load on the top portion of the hull, and putting a tensile load on the bottom. There is virtually no moment on the glass. Almost like taking a piece of lumbar like a 2X10 or something, and putting a load on the middle of it. Laying flat with a load in the middle seems analogous to me to having the wedge set to create drag. Having it upright (like joists lay) would seemingly be more like having it create lift.

Nevertheless, this is all interesting and educational reading, and I don't think it is going to factor into things.

Since I still have my A22, time isn't that critical. I think I can order a boat that will be opted more like I'd prefer with a color selection more like I'd prefer, and see where the two fall out.

Edited by 67King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahopkinsVTX

Bolts can handle higher shear loads than tensile loads. But more importantly, I'm thinking about the hull. In tension, you are essentially pulling from the middle of a pretty big piece of fiberglass, meaning you are placing a pretty big moment onto the middle of the glass where the wedge anchors. Conversely, when the bolts are in shear, you are putting a compressive load on the top portion of the hull, and putting a tensile load on the bottom. There is virtually no moment on the glass. Almost like taking a piece of lumbar like a 2X10 or something, and putting a load on the middle of it. Laying flat with a load in the middle seems analogous to me to having the wedge set to create drag. Having it upright (like joists lay) would seemingly be more like having it create lift.

Nevertheless, this is all interesting and educational reading, and I don't think it is going to factor into things.

Chatt - was going to send you an e-mail. Sent Joyce my "build list" this morning, going to try to drive down and see her today. Since I still have my A22, time isn't that critical. I think I can order a boat that will be opted more like I'd prefer with a color selection more like I'd prefer, and see where the two fall out.

I respectfully disagree that bolts are stronger in shear than tension: http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=127

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
67King

I respectfully disagree that bolts are stronger in shear than tension: http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=127

I stand corrected, thank you. In my defense, I had looked it up, and found it was true for small fasteners, and didn't look further down (not that the fastner will be what fails......)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahopkinsVTX

I stand corrected, thank you. In my defense, I had looked it up, and found it was true for small fasteners, and didn't look further down (not that the fastner will be what fails......)

No worries :). My first post was from memory and then curiosity got the best of me. I don't know what size bolts are used on the wedge and I can understand how M8 and smaller shear would be stronger.

EDIT: I do want to say, I WANT THE WEDGE TO HELP. It would be awesome and a huge feature for me. We have a TXi which is awesome for skiing, aobviously. But in all honestly, a VTX would fit our family perfect so I am interested in purchased one in the future.

Edited by ahopkinsTXi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tarzan

Agree the lift function for skiing would be a game changer. Reading the thread it seems like this does work at 34 mph but the alarm goes off after 26 mph so you gave to ignore it . ( ie at 34 mph it can stay in lift position) . Have a few more members actually tried this on the 2915 and is it a noticeable differnce to the wake. Sorry it's not that clear reading the thread. Also any views or news on whether Malibu might commercialise the lift position for skiing in new models. Thks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahopkinsVTX

Agree the lift function for skiing would be a game changer. Reading the thread it seems like this does work at 34 mph but the alarm goes off after 26 mph so you gave to ignore it . ( ie at 34 mph it can stay in lift position) . Have a few more members actually tried this on the 2915 and is it a noticeable differnce to the wake. Sorry it's not that clear reading the thread. Also any views or news on whether Malibu might commercialise the lift position for skiing in new models. Thks

Sounds like there is one person doing it. I would still be hesitant to try it but that's just me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bamabonners

Sunny marine is the new malibu and axis dealer for knoxville. Go see them, zac will treat you right.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G850A using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...