Stereo Upgrade- What to buy

[jfish1288]

I have my boat set up with one amp running the in boats and another running the towers, through and EQ that I can fade between tower and in boats. One problem is that the dash speakers are too loud compared to the rear in boats, so I would like to fade between those. That's why I'm using the kicker unit. One set of outputs from the kicker will go to the towers, the other will go to the EQ, which will then split the outputs to the amp. I'll then set up the EQ fader at a nice point to balance the front in boats with the rear, but be able to control the towers and in boats easily with the level controls easily accessible from the helm. Just something for you to think about is that the front in boats are usually quite a bit louder due to the location and reflectivity of the glass, so you might want to figure a way to fade the in boats front and rear.

Yeah I have already noticed that the fronts seem louder than the rears, so right now I have the head unit faded to the rear's a little to balance it out.

I suppose with it set up so that the head unit's front output is powering the cabin speakers and the head unit's rear output is powering the tower speakers I will have to live with the front cabin speakers being a little louder than the rear cabin speakers. I guess I could wire the front cabin speakers as the "left" speakers and the rear cabin speakers as the "right" speakers and balance that way, but some music might sound a little funny.

[shawndoggy]

Yeah I have already noticed that the fronts seem louder than the rears, so right now I have the head unit faded to the rear's a little to balance it out.

I suppose with it set up so that the head unit's front output is powering the cabin speakers and the head unit's rear output is powering the tower speakers I will have to live with the front cabin speakers being a little louder than the rear cabin speakers. I guess I could wire the front cabin speakers as the "left" speakers and the rear cabin speakers as the "right" speakers and balance that way, but some music might sound a little funny.

If you use a four channel for the cabins you could "undergain" the dash speakers to balance them with the rears. As MLA points out, that would leave some potential power from those two rockford amps on the table, but if it were me that's how I'd do it because I've experienced the "way too bright" dash speakers before.

Edited May 14, 2015 by shawndoggy

[MLA]

Yeah, if you are already hearing the dominance of the dash mounted speaker reflecting off the windshield, then a 4 chnl would be best, so you can dial them back a little. i still like the wattage for the 6.5 HLCDs from a bridged 4 chnl though. Maybe trade the 2 chnl for another 4 chnl?

[jfish1288]

Yeah, if you are already hearing the dominance of the dash mounted speaker reflecting off the windshield, then a 4 chnl would be best, so you can dial them back a little. i still like the wattage for the 6.5 HLCDs from a bridged 4 chnl though. Maybe trade the 2 chnl for another 4 chnl?

Should I consider using the Alpine MRV-1507 my friend offered for the towers instead? It is supposedly 225 Watt RMS @ 14.4V on two 4 ohm channels. I don't think my voltage is that high when running, but I dont know if it would offer a wattage an improvement over the RF P500X2

[shawndoggy]

Should I consider using the Alpine MRV-1507 my friend offered for the towers instead? It is supposedly 225 Watt RMS @ 14.4V on two 4 ohm channels. I don't think my voltage is that high when running, but I dont know if it would offer a wattage an improvement over the RF P500X2

You should take that amp for your sub (that you are gonna buy now that you are under budget!).

[jfish1288]

You should take that amp for your sub (that you are gonna buy now that you are under budget!).

Will do. But I might delay the sub a little depending on how everything sounds and focus getting a good 2 battery setup installed before the sub. I have been trying to research using an automatic charging relay. Any advice?

[Asmodeus2112]

Will do. But I might delay the sub a little depending on how everything sounds and focus getting a good 2 battery setup installed before the sub. I have been trying to research using an automatic charging relay. Any advice?

Highly recommended by many on this forum.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7650/Add-A-Battery_Kit_-_120A

[jfish1288]

Yeah I think I will do that Blueseas set up.

I still need to figure out where/how I am going to mount everything, wire lengths/size, and fuse sizes (and I will probably do a fused distribution block); but here is my plan so far.

Any problems/bad ideas?

[Asmodeus2112]

Yeah I think I will do that Blueseas set up.

I still need to figure out where/how I am going to mount everything, wire lengths/size, and fuse sizes (and I will probably do a fused distribution block); but here is my plan so far.

Any problems/bad ideas?

Looks good to me, I like the idea of using the Acc. switch to turn the tower amp on/off.

[Asmodeus2112]

Regarding the extra power to the towers, it's usually recommended to hi pass filter them (~100 Hz?), which filters the bass out which is what requires the most power. Perhaps this is more of a recommendation when the towers are intended to be used primarily for behind the boat surfing/wakeboarding listening, but if they are to be used for in boat or chilling then perhaps you might not want to hi pass them if you don't have a sub. (This is part statement/part question to the one who know....)

[jfish1288]

Interesting, this is all new to me. Why do you want to filter the bass out of the towers when pulling someone?

Would I want to use the filter on the amp, or do I need something else?

Edited May 15, 2015 by jfish1288

[shawndoggy]

Interesting, this is all new to me. Why do you want to filter the bass out of the towers when pulling someone?

Would I want to use the filter on the amp, or do I need something else?

6.5" tower speakers can't reproduce the same bass signals that a subwoofer can. So you cut those out so the speakers don't even have to try. This lets you put more power to the speakers in the frequencies they are designed for, without risking distortion as they try to reproduce frequencies that they can't.

As a rule of thumb/starting point you'd want to high pass tower and cabin speakers at about 100Hz and low pass the sub at the same frequency.

As for turning the tower amp on and off with an acc switch I am not sure there's really much use in that? I think it's going to introduce a thump at power up or power down from cutting the signal abruptly, and if the signal to the amp is cut (i.e. fader) it's not like the amp is really consuming that much power while powered on but not reproducing sound. I could totally be wrong, but this feels like an area where you are introducing unnecessary complexity.

[David]

A lot of things happen when you try and run tower speakers full range...and none of them are good.

Even a speaker like a Wetsounds Rev10, which is larger and goes deeper, needs to be run in the highpass mode.

[jfish1288]

Ok that makes sense about filtering.

The reason I was thinking of turning the tower amp on/off with the acc switch is two fold:

1. I was concerned about the tower amp draining the battery when I only want to play the cabin speakers. It sounds like this concern is unfounded and the current draw from the amp when not driving the speakers is minimal????

2. The head unit is under the driver's arm rest and kind of a pain to access when you want to turn down the speakers quickly (for example when trying to talk to a skier when bringing the rope around). Also cycling through the head unit's controls to get to the fade is kinda a PIA. But I understand the point about the noise. I guess the RF Remote Punch Level Control would be a much better way of being about to quickly control the tower speaker volume, right?

[shawndoggy]

I think that RF piece is only a sub level control.

The best bang for the buck is a clarion EQS 746 equalizer, which will control tower, cabin and sub zones and will give you an additional AUX input. In addition to being a decent EQ and line driver.

http://www.amazon.com/Clarion-EQS746-Graphic-Equalizer-Crossover/dp/B000EZV3T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1431714852&sr=1-1&keywords=eqs746

[jfish1288]

Shawn I really appreciate all of the help.

So with the clarion I would run the cabin speakers off the front outputs, the towers of the rear outputs, and eventually a sub off the sub outputs. Then I can control the tower volume with the fade knob (but turning the tower down would also turn the cabins up), the tower+cabin volume with the volume knob, and sub level with the sub knob. Is that correct?

Also if I do not include the acc switch, should I also get rid of the relay? I think I read on some car audio site that it is good to use a relay to turn the amps on to limit risk of damage to the head unit if the amp's remote wire draws too much current. Not sure if that makes sense.

[shawndoggy]

I would use a relay to turn the amps (and EQ if you add one) on. Gives you flexibility for adding components in the future to just add the relay now.

Re the fader, when it's "in the middle" both cabin and tower zones would get full power. As you fade to one or the other, you only attenuate (cut) power to the unfavored zone, you don't increase the volume of the favored zone. Hope that makes sense? In other words it would NOT "also turn the cabins up" to fade to cabin... it would just cut volume to the towers.

You are otherwise correct about the operation. Master volume controls the whole system, fader controls cabin/tower balance (and can cut either zone fully), sub will give you some gain control over the sub zone (but it's a subset of the master volume, so when you turn down master, sub is cut too).

[David]

I also agree that the Clarion EQ is a GREAT value for a zone control.

The only down side is that you cannot defeat the built-in lowpass sub filter. Depending on the grade of amplifiers in use you may have much higher quality filters available on the amplifiers and you may want a different lowpass frequency than the only two options of 60 & 90 Hz.

[jfish1288]

Re the fader, when it's "in the middle" both cabin and tower zones would get full power. As you fade to one or the other, you only attenuate (cut) power to the unfavored zone, you don't increase the volume of the favored zone. Hope that makes sense? In other words it would NOT "also turn the cabins up" to fade to cabin... it would just cut volume to the towers.

Ok, makes perfect sense, and seems like the best way to set things up for my situation.

I also agree that the Clarion EQ is a GREAT value for a zone control.

The only down side is that you cannot defeat the built-in lowpass sub filter. Depending on the grade of amplifiers in use you may have much higher quality filters available on the amplifiers and you may want a different lowpass frequency than the only two options of 60 & 90 Hz.

Hmm that is interesting. I think for now that should not be a problem for me (especially since I do not have a sub yet). Actually, I am fairly clueless about most of this so I have no idea if that is a problem for me. I guess its something I can always upgrade later if necessary.

[jfish1288]

Ok, where should I mount these amps?

I see most people put them on the port side of the locker behind the observer's seat, with the amp rack glued to the hull. I think I would rather have them under the helm for a few reasons:

1) I would not have to run the head unit/speaker wires under the floor, around the ski locker, and into the locker behind the observers seat. Aside from being more of a PIA than running just 1 power and 1 ground wire, the only route that would not require drilling holes through the ski locker would be to run the head unit/speaker wires alongside the house power/ground wires. I'm a very ignorant to all of this, but couldn't that be a source of unwanted noise?

2) Invariably people recklessly throw all sorts of things into the locker. I would hate for something wet or leaking to end up on the amps, or something hard to get banged into them. I don't want to be the locker police every time I go out.

3) I am not sure if heat will be an issue with these amps, but I would think I would get better airflow (especially if I add a fan) with them under the helm.

4) I will be able to see them easier (without having to ask people to get up) to occasionally monitor things.

I'm not sure what the downsides to mounting them under the helm are, other than the longer wire run to the battery. And less space I guess. Am I missing something?

Edited May 16, 2015 by jfish1288

[jfish1288]

I do think I will be adding a sub at some point, and the best place to put that is probably under the helm. I did a cardboard mock up of the space I have to work with for the sub (while still leaving room for amps on the back wall). There are some irregular angles but according to my calculations I would have a little over 2 ft^3 to work with. Here are some pictures of what I am planning on doing.

Is any of this a bad idea?

[jfish1288]

Pics continued...

[jfish1288]

Here is the space I have for a sub enclosure.

Would it be a bad idea to make it in this shape?

Would it be ok to have the woofer angled downward?

[Stevo]

Ok, where should I mount these amps?

I see most people put them on the port side of the locker behind the observer's seat, with the amp rack glued to the hull. I think I would rather have them under the helm for a few reasons:

1) I would not have to run the head unit/speaker wires under the floor, around the ski locker, and into the locker behind the observers seat. Aside from being more of a PIA than running just 1 power and 1 ground wire, the only route that would not require drilling holes through the ski locker would be to run the head unit/speaker wires alongside the house power/ground wires. I'm a very ignorant to all of this, but couldn't that be a source of unwanted noise?

2) Invariably people recklessly throw all sorts of things into the locker. I would hate for something wet or leaking to end up on the amps, or something hard to get banged into them. I don't want to be the locker police every time I go out.

3) I am not sure if heat will be an issue with these amps, but I would think I would get better airflow (especially if I add a fan) with them under the helm.

4) I will be able to see them easier (without having to ask people to get up) to occasionally monitor things.

I'm not sure what the downsides to mounting them under the helm are, other than the longer wire run to the battery. And less space I guess. Am I missing something?

On my 01' I ran the wires around the bow under the rail, there are built in wire runs to keep the wire up there,and you can always zip tie to the existing wires. I had to use a wire fish around the front of the bow .

Under the helm exposes them to more of the elements than in the locker

Edited May 16, 2015 by Stevo

[jfish1288]

Here is a view from the back.