Using Viper II as Bluetooth Source for Aftermarket EQ

[pkh]

In the process of trying to fix a engine noise issue in my stereo, I experimented with grabbing Bluetooth audio straight from the Viper II (dash computer) without using the Rockford Fostgate "black box."

It actually turned out to be really simple, there is a cable bundle wrapped in black electrical tape behind the MTC, here's a picture:

Those are just RCA cables, simply unplug and then plug in a cable directly to your EQ.

For me I like having an EQ and only use Bluetooth or directly wire in, so the factory stereo adds a lot of unneeded complexity and potential issues. Having to home run all the RCA cables across the boat adds potential for noise and what not. This gives you a super short run of cable to the EQ, cutting the total length nearly in half.

Also once I found the factory stereo controls would not work with proper bluetooth (see other thread about bluetooth issues) I thought there was little reason to maintain the factory controls.

The good news is this solution still lets you play / pause and next track / prev track from the MTC controls.

Edited March 11, 2015 by pkh

[IXFE]

In the process of trying to fix a engine noise issue in my stereo, I experimented with grabbing Bluetooth audio straight from the Viper II (dash computer) without using the Rockford Fostgate "black box."

It actually turned out to be really simple, there is a cable bundle wrapped in black electrical tape behind the MTC, here's a picture:

Those are just RCA cables, simply unplug and then plug in a cable directly to your EQ.

For me I like having an EQ and only use Bluetooth or directly wire in, so the factory stereo adds a lot of unneeded complexity and potential issues. Having to home run all the RCA cables across the boat adds potential for noise and what not. This gives you a super short run of cable to the EQ, cutting the total length nearly in half.

Also once I found the factory stereo controls would not work with proper bluetooth (see other thread about bluetooth issues) I thought there was little reason to maintain the factory controls.

The good news is this solution still lets you play / pause and next track / prev track from the MTC controls.

Nice find, Phil. I also discovered those RCA's, but didn't think to route them directly over to the ZLD. The only issue I see is the ZLD only has two inputs. Did you plug Viper 2 into the AUX input? The only other option would be to use the input from the black bix, but that would really render the head unit dead.

Did this solve the engine noise. My guess is no...

I was thinking about that the other day... any chance the issue is in the way the amps cables are run to the battery/switch?

[pkh]

Yeah still no bueno on engine noise, I thought bypassing the black box would do it since I tested plugging straight into amp with a Y cable from my phone (music source) and didn't hear the noise... but I think its because the level was so low, though its possible the ZLD was in-properly grounded and so its having the same noise issue... or maybe the noise issue is coming over in the remote wire from the RF unit which I am still using.

I did get the noise level way down by messing with the gains, so much you can't even hear it unless you pause the music and crank the volume all the way. But not I am not sure I am getting the volume levels I will want out of it... and it seems more like I am masking the issue then fixing it.

Anyhoo - I am going to try to figure out if its a ground issue tomorrow. I think you guys were smart just to start tackling this stereo stuff yourself, waiting for other people to get around to it doesn't work for my patience levels.

[shawndoggy]

does the viper II module display track info too? I'm assuming it's the module that allows you to do rider presets with the perfect pull app? Do you even need to buy the stereo to get that module?

[IXFE]

does the viper II module display track info too? I'm assuming it's the module that allows you to do rider presets with the perfect pull app? Do you even need to buy the stereo to get that module?

Yes, you need to buy the whole frickin' sound pack for aprox. $2500 to get the module.

But don't feel bad for us, Shawn. For that price we also got RF amps and speakers we don't really want. [emoji23] [emoji379]

[pkh]

Is that right? What a rip! I was thinking folks with stereo deletes could use this as a source.

Isn't the dash computer an all in one deal? Maybe just does not have the right cable if you don't order boat with stereo or has it disabled in software?

[dielawn]

It really was quite confusing when sitting down and looking into the stereo setup for the first time. The new VLX has virtually 2 Bluetooth signals... One is the Viper II signal and then the other is the basic BT input on the stereo controls. Both have 2 completely different BT signal names. Also its pretty pathetic that both signals seem to be weak. If someone takes the bluetooth connected phone up to the bow (virtually 3-4 ft away from the signal, the sound gets chopped up... Viper II displays the song and album in a much more appealing manor, but virtually zero tuning abilities. On the generic BT signal its pretty dull and boring, but has the ability to tweak fade/balance/bass/treble.. Which it does a pretty crappy job at... You would think that with such an expensive boat they would have given us the highest quality Bluetooth possible... and realize that not all bluetooth chips are made equal. There is definitely a difference between quality in signals.

[pkh]

It really was quite confusing when sitting down and looking into the stereo setup for the first time. The new VLX has virtually 2 Bluetooth signals... One is the Viper II signal and then the other is the basic BT input on the stereo controls. Both have 2 completely different BT signal names. Also its pretty pathetic that both signals seem to be weak. If someone takes the bluetooth connected phone up to the bow (virtually 3-4 ft away from the signal, the sound gets chopped up... Viper II displays the song and album in a much more appealing manor, but virtually zero tuning abilities. On the generic BT signal its pretty dull and boring, but has the ability to tweak fade/balance/bass/treble.. Which it does a pretty crappy job at... You would think that with such an expensive boat they would have given us the highest quality Bluetooth possible... and realize that not all bluetooth chips are made equal. There is definitely a difference between quality in signals.

Yes I agree! You may have the old screen though, the new one has a built in antenna (if you feel around back of the lower screen you will feel the antenna.)

Here's all the details on Bluetooth problems:

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/53404-2015-dash-bluetooth-sound-quality/

You definitely do not want to use the RFX 6000 source it sounds terrible.

Edited March 11, 2015 by pkh

[IXFE]

Is that right? What a rip! I was thinking folks with stereo deletes could use this as a source.

Isn't the dash computer an all in one deal? Maybe just does not have the right cable if you don't order boat with stereo or has it disabled in software?

Trust me, Phil. I looked into this extensively before I ponied up the dough for LSV Sound Pack. I wanted the integration at the helm (mtc as a music interface offering various sources, full use of the sport knob, etc.), but I didn't want the RF speakers or amps. I asked if I could just get (and pay for) the Medallion interface. The answer I got was, "No dice." So to get full function of the sport knob I had to take the entire LSV Sound Pack. This is why you see me swapping out amps instead of doing a complete new Exile build like I did last year.

As far as what that Medallion interface is, I followed the wires (the RCA's you mention as well as a bundle of 18GA wires) from the BB back to the helm, just behind the MTC screen and here is where they terminate.... all the way to plug behind that screen... the gray one you see below. That plug where it's all at. There's nothing else between the BB and MTC that looks proprietary.

To be clear, the pics below are of the backside of the MTC screen (the small screen on the right side of the helm)

Edit: The pics below are of the OLD Viper 2 system. I don't have the new one yet, but I'm told they are replacing the entire screen! So maybe the backside looks different now.

Edited March 11, 2015 by IXFE

[pkh]

Interesting David, I guess they will find a way to make everything cost money even if it shouldn't.

Follow up on the noise issue. I think my gains were just set way too high... I tuned them by turning volume all the way up with no source, and then turned gains down until the noise went away. I tested with source again and music still reaches ear bleed level.

I couldn't find any grounding issue and in fact I bought a ground loop filter cable and it didn't help at all.

I am keeping things with the Viper II straight to ZLD straight to amps, as it seems like the best chance to minimize noise in the lines. I guess if you don't have the ZLD then its about the same amount of RCA cable.

I still like the cell phone holder and the big knob looks cool... I think all things considered I still probably would have gone this route, maybe next year I will re-do everything with factory controls if I can make it work with ZLD. For now I just want boat to be ready, we have already been out 3 times and will be back out again asap.

Edited March 12, 2015 by pkh

[Brian Young]

I was told the same thing about the Medallion interface between the dash and the black box. Guess you can't buy one, if they don't really exist.

[thtrog]

IXFE, so they are changing out the MTC and adding the Viper BT module? Will all functions of the of the joystick knob still work after this?

I finally heard this fading on my system last weekend, disconnected / connected the RF BT and it went away. For whatever reason I don't get the clicking others have described when changing volume with the knob.

[pkh]

IXFE, so they are changing out the MTC and adding the Viper BT module? Will all functions of the of the joystick knob still work after this?

I finally heard this fading on my system last weekend, disconnected / connected the RF BT and it went away. For whatever reason I don't get the clicking others have described when changing volume with the knob.

No the joystick functions do not work with the Viper BT even with new screen. The controls on the MTC screen work though (next / prev track and play / pause.)

The mute and volume knob still work on the big knob.

[pkh]

More interesting things found out today. Bill from Exile was nice enough to spend a couple hours with me going through my whole system.

One big discovery: The MTC computer appears to be grounded differently than the rest of the (factory) stereo, so it creates a ground loop when plugged in. Maybe this won't go noticed by some (anyone?) but at least in my system it was adding noise even when I wasn't using it as a source.

He also pointed out plugging in my phone to the USB port below the cell phone holder creates yet another ground loop! So basically you can't do anything in this boat without creating a ground loop lol.

I am still working on solutions and will post up anything I find.

[thtrog]

No the joystick functions do not work with the Viper BT even with new screen. The controls on the MTC screen work though (next / prev track and play / pause.)

The mute and volume knob still work on the big knob.

Thanks. I've previously stated I've not experienced this issue, so I should posted in the other thread. I may just plug in the aux cord until everything settles.

[Cory]

Thanks. I've previously stated I've not experienced this issue, so I should posted in the other thread. I may just plug in the aux cord until everything settles.

Here's more fuel for the fire... When using the AUX input the MUTE button (at the helm or transom) don't work. The mute works for every other input, but I couldn't get it to work with the AUX input. Weird...

I haven't yet experienced the noise issues others are having with either the Viper II BT or the RF BT. As of today (mind you I haven't yet tested my stereo with the engine running), I'm very pleased with the stereo as a whole.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Cory

[pkh]

My RF dongle was behind the amp board, that is just how it came stock. I'd imagine putting it on the other side and routing away from cables would help.

Not sure if the fading in / out is a sign of a weak signal or what.

Anyway, I already gave up on factory stereo... 100% Exile or bust!

[Wakesetter67]

My RF dongle was behind the amp board, that is just how it came stock. I'd imagine putting it on the other side and routing away from cables would help.

Not sure if the fading in / out is a sign of a weak signal or what.

Anyway, I already gave up on factory stereo... 100% Exile or bust!

So what your saying dont mess with adding the RF6000 just keep it simple, Use the ZLD and be done with it, Brandon is starting mine in a few weeks,

[pkh]

Yeah Vince - especially if you are starting without one I'd say its more trouble than its worth.

Also on the Bluetooth front, there are tons of aftermarket options that will work as good or better than the Malibu offerings. Plug one into main ZLD port, and RCA -> Headphone cable in the Aux Port and you are done.

[Cory]

I pulled my boat out onto the driveway and ran the motor while listening to the stereo. I guess I lucked out cause I can't perceive any noise. This time I'm very happy with the HU. The only two issues I have are: 1) a static burst about 2 seconds after pressing the power button to turn the stereo off (doesn't really bother me much) and 2) the mute button doesn't work with the AUX input, volume up and down works, but not mute. The mute button works for all other inputs. Very weird. I usually just use bluetooth, so I'm mildly bothered by this.

I had the boat on the driveway for 10 minutes max, then quickly backed it back into the garage. I spent 10 min vacuuming the fir needles out of the boat. One of those northwest days.

[Cory]

I do think my cross-overs and gains need to be tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. I've got the polarity of all speakers consistent, but I feel she's still in need of a good tuning. $50 bucks anyone???

[Bawshogg]

Bring it down.....or I can get you in touch with Mr. Light. I think he in your neck.

[CJAY]

I do think my cross-overs and gains need to be tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. I've got the polarity of all speakers consistent, but I feel she's still in need of a good tuning. $50 bucks anyone???

It's a key to great system. You can also buy tools to do it with, but they are a bit more than $50

[pkh]

Update: I've given up on the Viper II Bluetooth source, with engine on its too noisy for my taste. My guess is its grounded differently than the rest of the stereo components so its probably a ground loop issue, but I really don't know.

I'm going to work on getting my AirEnabler wired up under the dash and in the meantime will do direct plug in.

Good news is I finally think I nixed my engine noise issues with some better cables and smarter routing.

Edited March 18, 2015 by pkh

[MLA]

Update: I've given up on the Viper II Bluetooth source, with engine on its too noisy for my taste. Its grounded differently than the rest of the stereo components so its probably a ground loop issue.

I'm going to work on getting my AirEnabler wired up under the dash and in the meantime will do direct plug in.

Good news is I finally think I nixed my engine noise issues with some better cables and smarter routing.

At the end of the day, a boat actually has a common ground. So, all things are really sharing that same ground. But, with dual batteries, its easy for audio components to "see" a different positive voltage reference. This is what can cause whats commonly called a ground loop. No matter the source, the potential remains.

Good luck with the noise and a reliable wireless source.