What mirror

[IXFE]

Guys.... Suggest you look/compare a PTM and other brands side by side. Not talking the design or quality, solid there.... I am talking optics.

I thought I wanted a PTM... Till I used one back to back with other brands. PTM optics make the rear reflection smaller.... Noticeably. I have 20/15 vision, and it made the rear view noticeably smaller... You will lose details using that mirror. There are variables as or more important that design, construction and solid mounting.yes is looks amazing coming out of box. Try to demo them side by side on the water.

This will probably send this thread down in flames because folks on here drank a beer with the PTM owner at a boat show or married his cousin or something.... But do like I said. Compare them side by side and you'll see it's not even up for discussion.

Not promoting another brand, I could care less what you buy, just ensure you are happy with the optics on PTM before you purchase. It's one of those objects reflection are closer than they appear situations IMO.

This post makes a lot of assumptions/implications

* it assumes that those of us who like the PTM only do so because of design.

* it assumes that those who like PTM have never tried any other mirror.

* it implies we like the mirror because we might have met the owner or his cousin? So random...

* it assumes we all have ESP... we're supposed to somehow know what mirror is being recommended despite no mention of it.

Look, if you have another mirror to suggest, just say, "I like the XYZ mirror, you should check it out." That's the most important piece of info you could have included in your reply, and it's the one thing missing. The rest is just trolling.

As for me, this ain't my first rodeo. I've had a lot of mirrors, and I like PTM the best. As for optics, yes the rider is smaller. Or course they are! That's what happens when you cram more content into roughly the same space. It's gotta get smaller. Buy I will say, the clarity for me was like going from SD to HD.

And the Rusty comment is just more exaggeration. My daughter is no Rusty, but she likes to cut out wide and I like to see her out there without turning around. You need not pull a pro rider to appreciate a wide field of view.

Finally, you botched the rifle scope analogy, but now I'm just nit picking

[nyryan2001]

WXYZ- I'm not going to give any recs as to which mirror to use, that'd most certainly disintegrate into a fanboy beatdown. I don't care which brand, but pay attention to the optics. Try to say another brand of cover is superior to Evolution on here, tar and feathers. Guys like you can't appreciate any opposing views without getting emotional because you need to feel you made the best decision . Exhibit A ^^^.

Reason I targeted PTM is 5/6? Of the new boats I've driven last 60-90 days were all PTM.... and this thread will continue to be a PTM love fest. I have an opposing point of view, and it's legit even though you may not agree, I think they are a pita compared to other offerings. Keep squinting your eyes, and pretend is isn't happening. There are aspects of wake mirrors more important than construction and materials IMO... Where I think PTM is superior..... But for me, on this, function trumps form by a large margin.

And yes, screwed up the rifle scope thing, but you get the idea, that's your emotional connection with your PTM purchase coming through. Cheers.

[85 Barefoot]

It's not black and white. What the OP uses his boat for may differ from you. You have essentially labelled anyone who prefers the PTM as being ignorant and assume incorrectly that many of those people haven't compared them. For a dedicated surf tractor, a cipa might be fine. For a multipurpose boat, a PTM might be a much better choice. Either way, it doesn't mean IXFE is the victim of a sales pitch nor that he has an "emotional connection", it means he has a preference. You have a preference. Great.

Back to your PTM gripes, do you not even know which model you were using? The two models are quite different. How about if instead of attacking someone you just say what it is that you like about your mirror, and name what it is. Calling people ignorant is a lot more inflammatory than explaining why you like your mirror.

Edited August 25, 2014 by 85 Barefoot

[IXFE]

WXYZ- I'm not going to give any recs as to which mirror to use, that'd most certainly disintegrate into a fanboy beatdown. I don't care which brand, but pay attention to the optics. Try to say another brand of cover is superior to Evolution on here, tar and feathers. Guys like you can't appreciate any opposing views without getting emotional because you need to feel you made the best decision . Exhibit A ^^^.

Reason I targeted PTM is 5/6? Of the new boats I've driven last 60-90 days were all PTM.... and this thread will continue to be a PTM love fest. I have an opposing point of view, and it's legit even though you may not agree, I think they are a pita compared to other offerings. Keep squinting your eyes, and pretend is isn't happening. There are aspects of wake mirrors more important than construction and materials IMO... Where I think PTM is superior..... But for me, on this, function trumps form by a large margin.

And yes, screwed up the rifle scope thing, but you get the idea, that's your emotional connection with your PTM purchase coming through. Cheers.

This is hilarious... you are so ready for a fight... yet nobody wants to fight you. We just want to know what you are recommending. What's so hard about this?

For the record... I don't have an emotional connection to PTM. I never even posted in this thread before this morning.

This is not a PTM thread, it's a mirror thread. The OP asked for any and all mirror recommendations. You've been asked by at least two people (incl. me) to share your experience and the mirror you like. Why are you so surprised that people might actually be interested in knowing what you are recommending. I have no allegiance to PTM, it's just the best I've tried so far. But I don't claim to have tried them all. In fact, the only reason I have PTM is because it was the best of the factory options available to me. I never considered any aftermarket stuff, but I would if I thought it was better.

My objection to the rifle scope analogy was as a shooter, not a boater. But I acknowledged it was a nit pick and I even gave you a little smiley face. I was just poking fun at you. Somehow you took that to mean I'm emotionally connected to PTM? Um... ok.

EDIT: Make that four people who've asked you: dfarhood, 85 Barefoot, IXFE, and the OP who I assume wants to know or he wouldn't have started the thread.

Edited August 25, 2014 by IXFE

[nyryan2001]

85, Ive used both, the regular pros on most and one a factory demo boat with the elite. Awesome looking mirrors, superior contrustuction and all that no doubt... I wanted to like the PTMs because of how great they look... but was dissapointed and would never use one. New Centurions come with the pro model as an option. Found myself squinting to read 4 font is the best way to describe it.

And its not like its a trade off as in one for the other... as you get the PTM and can see your rider in the flats... or you get a flatter mirror and then you have to turn around to see your rider. Thats a false imperative, I think a lot of it has to do with positioning of the mirror relative to the driver. You most certainly can have a good view and see your rider, without him being a 4 font rider.

[IXFE]

85, Ive used both, the regular pros on most and one a factory demo boat with the elite. Awesome looking mirrors, superior contrustuction and all that no doubt... I wanted to like the PTMs because of how great they look... but was dissapointed and would never use one. New Centurions come with the pro model as an option. Found myself squinting to read 4 font is the best way to describe it.

And its not like its a trade off as in one for the other... as you get the PTM and can see your rider in the flats... or you get a flatter mirror and then you have to turn around to see your rider. Thats a false imperative, I think a lot of it has to do with positioning of the mirror relative to the driver. You most certainly can have a good view and see your rider, without him being a 4 font rider.

Still no recommendation.

I can't remember the last time I tried to read a word doc with small font through the mirror on my boat.

P.S. That last line should be considered a joke only, and not in any way a sign of some deep emotional connection I have to anything or anybody. Just having fun with you, Ryan.

[85 Barefoot]

85, Ive used both, the regular pros on most and one a factory demo boat with the elite. Awesome looking mirrors, superior contrustuction and all that no doubt... I wanted to like the PTMs because of how great they look... but was dissapointed and would never use one. New Centurions come with the pro model as an option. Found myself squinting to read 4 font is the best way to describe it.

And its not like its a trade off as in one for the other... as you get the PTM and can see your rider in the flats... or you get a flatter mirror and then you have to turn around to see your rider. Thats a false imperative, I think a lot of it has to do with positioning of the mirror relative to the driver. You most certainly can have a good view and see your rider, without him being a 4 font rider.

Ryan, are you strictly talking wakesurfing?

[thtrog]

I’ve been using the PTM Pro140 on a windshield mount before even offered as factory option and highly recommend it. Yes, for me seeing a wakeborder in the air or landing in the flats is a priority for rider safety. The VR-140 Pro (plastic housing) and VR-140 Elite (aluminum housing) are the exact same optics; they also offer the VR-100 if you prefer a narrower field of view.

[isellacuras]

I posted this in the accessories section but I'll post it here since there's some activity around. I would like a wider view mirror but I do not want to spend the money on a mirror and tower mount. I'd like to get a replacement for my windshield mount. I also do not want to remove the factory mount in lieu of the clamp on windshield mount which would mean covering up the holes on the windshield. Are there any mirrors that would be a direct replacement for the factory windshield mount that offer a wider viewing angle?

Edit: My eyes are good and I don't mind reading 4 font.

Edited August 25, 2014 by isellacuras

[oldjeep]

I posted this in the accessories section but I'll post it here since there's some activity around. I would like a wider view mirror but I do not want to spend the money on a mirror and tower mount. I'd like to get a replacement for my windshield mount. I also do not want to remove the factory mount in lieu of the clamp on windshield mount which would mean covering up the holes on the windshield. Are there any mirrors that would be a direct replacement for the factory windshield mount that offer a wider viewing angle?

Pretty sure that this is the only one that uses the same type mount as the factory mirror. Once you get a step up from this then the CIPAs start using a different mount.

http://www.cipausa.com/product/cipa-01408-7-x17-wave-mirror-replacement-head-black

[Bill_AirJunky]

I demoed the regular Cipa mirror that all our boats came with (even ran 2 of them), the Cipa Extreme that has the big mirror in the center plus the 2 smaller side mirrors, and the PTM, all side by side. The rider is a bit smaller in the PTM. And a LOT smaller in the Extreme side mirrors. He's still plenty clear for me to see hand signals in the PTM though, and I only have 20/30 vision! Plus I can see the riders on an 80' rope when we're doing Around The Boat.... Or even a Double Around The Boat!

But your right, I have a tough time seeing the color of their eyes in the PTM.

So is Cipas new Vision any better?

BTW, I just drove with the Extreme this weekend (for the umpteenth time). Those 2 side mirrors are almost worthless.

I thought I wanted a PTM... Till I used one back to back with other brands. PTM optics make the rear reflection smaller.... Noticeably. I have 20/15 vision, and it made the rear view noticeably smaller... You will lose details using that mirror. There are variables as or more important that design, construction and solid mounting.yes is looks amazing coming out of box. Try to demo them side by side on the water.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Bill_AirJunky

[Marmonick]

I HAVE A WHITE TOWER MOUNT W/MIRROR FOR SALE!

[nyryan2001]

Bill, I am not going to reccomend another mirror. Although there are several out there, perhaps the flatter 100 PTM Thtrog suggests might be a better choice, though Ive never seen one. I told OP to demo a few and make a choice.

What I am doing is telling OP why I dont like the PTMs, and an important consideration IMO of whats important when considering a $300+ puchase that directly lends to how pleasurable a 1-2hr session for the driver can be. The only reason I am posting up is having recently been on several boats where it really stood out...back to back, and not just a little differnce. I would never want that, and I have near perfect vision.

If you want to know what I run come on over to LKA and drive my boat and see the rider in 12font Times New Roman, even out in the flats. Open invite.

Dont worry IXFE, I'm good, this reminds me of the 2315 battle threads a few years back. Now look. Its the TMC's way of vetting and testing new thought and new ideas from guys passionate about their sport.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Thanks for clearing that up Ryan. I was having trouble understanding how our opinion on what make/model of mirror any of us prefer would be effected by us having "drank a beer with the PTM owner at a boat show or married his cousin or something".

My evaluation of several mirror arrangents over the years has been pretty well documented here on TMC. And I won't hide what make/model I've used or require you to drive 1000 miles just to get my opinion on it.

BTW, what does LKA mean?

Oh, and the VR-140 is only $200.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Bill_AirJunky

[dfarhood]

Bill, I am not going to reccomend another mirror. Although there are several out there, perhaps the flatter 100 PTM Thtrog suggests might be a better choice, though Ive never seen one. I told OP to demo a few and make a choice.

If you want to know what I run come on over to LKA and drive my boat and see the rider in 12font Times New Roman, even out in the flats. Open invite.

As a Virginia resident it is my TMC duty to drive a G21 and report back?...

BTW, what does LKA mean?

LKA = Lake Anna

[Bill_AirJunky]

As a Virginia resident it is my TMC duty to drive a G21 and report back?...

LKA = Lake Anna

Then in that case, there is no way I'd go check out his mirror. Been there & no need to go back.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Bill_AirJunky