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Arick

Debate, lsv 23 with 350

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Arick

LSV 23' with a 350 vs larger motor.

I tried searching around on the forum and couldn't find a previous thread about this. I think I suck at searching but thats besides the point :) . Anyway was talking with a local salesman and this topic came up. He was telling me that surfing with a 350 LSV 23 isn't a problem and that the motor wouldn't "struggle" or run at high RPM's (with stock prop). I could have sworn I read on here in multiple threads that this IS the case. That motor would have to work considerably harder and thus burn more gas.

I am looking for feedback from people with personal experience. Does it work the motor harder? Use more gas? etc..

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tjklein

Lots of info on this topic. I hate to be the "search" guy, but there's a couple recent ones talking about props and what not.

In short - if you surf and are going to weight the boat heavily, skimp on some of the extras and go with a bigger motor. LS3 or really splurge and go LSA. This boat is HEAVY and designed to push water. The 350 can do it, BUT you're going to have a 35-36 mph top speed. That means the motor is screaming above 30mph because you're going to have run a really "torquey" prop.

As far as gas goes, IMO they're all in the same ballpark. Don't worry about that.

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IXFE

You are not likely to find many 2014 LSV owners on this forum with the 350. I've noticed most guys on the forum have upgraded to the 450.

With that said, I debated the 350 just as you are doing now. Most of the inventory LSV's at my dealer have the 350, and I did my demo in one last fall. I suspect if you are running at/near sea level and have the 2419 prop (aka Torque Prop) you will be okay as long as you stick to stock tanks, PnP, and maybe one bag in the bow. But you may be running "on the edge." If you deviate from that formula you will struggle. By deviate I mean, if you take the boat to higher altitude, or decide you want to put more weight in it, or don't order the right prop, etc. etc.

In my case, the 450 was a hard bullet to bite. But now that it's sitting in my garage I'm glad I did it. If it came down to being able to afford the boat or not, I would have ordered the 350... in other words, I wouldn't have let the 350 stop me from getting a new LSV.

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IXFE

Side note... one thing I did when I was debating this topic was I did a search on onlyinboards.com. I looked at all 2014 LSV's across the entire country. There were 25 listed. I wanted to get a sense for what motor the dealers were putting in them. Not that I was going to let this make my decision, but I was curious.

On the day I searched I found that 23 of the 25 had the 350. 1 had a 409 and 1 had the 450. Wizard Lake Marine up in Canada (who didn't show up in my OIB data) orders all their inventory LSV's with 409's, but they are a "high end" dealer and they spend freely on upgrades.

Again, this data should not necessarily push you to get the 350. I only point it out so you realize if you do get the 350 you certainly will not be alone out there, and it won't likely hurt you when it comes to resale. If anything those of us with engine upgrades may be the ones crying at resale time as we'll never get all that money back. But I still don't regret it. :biggrin:

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tnsatbhs

I also ordered a 23lsv with the ls3, but have noticed the same things that IXFE has mentioned. My dealer also said that the 350 with the torque prop would be fine. I have demoed a 350 with the stock prop (ACME 537) and the 350. It was fine and probably could handle enough weight to put out a nice surf wave. That being said, I went with the ls3 for a number of reasons. First being, I don't want to "push it" to "get it done". Second, I want to have the extra power for whatever I want to do in the future. And, more horsepower is always better...

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Fman

For comparison sake, I have a VLX weighs probably 1000 lbs less with fuel and gear differences. I have Monsoon 350, 2315 prop, for surfing MLS full, wedge, 600's in each rear locker (650 full), 300+ extra bow weight, at sea level the 350 imo is maxed out. Typically my crew size is 4-6 people. I also have an extra 800 lb walkway bag I can use and this even convinced me more the 350 is at limitations.

I have never been in a new LSV with 350, I do however have substantial time in my VLX and with my findings the LS3 would be a worthwhile upgrade in the LSV just based on weight difference.

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wakebrdr94

For comparison sake, I have a VLX weighs probably 1000 lbs less with fuel and gear differences. I have Monsoon 350, 2315 prop, for surfing MLS full, wedge, 600's in each rear locker (650 full), 300+ extra bow weight, at sea level the 350 imo is maxed out. Typically my crew size is 4-6 people. I also have an extra 800 lb walkway bag I can use and this even convinced me more the 350 is at limitations.

I have never been in a new LSV with 350, I do however have substantial time in my VLX and with my findings the LS3 would be a worthwhile upgrade in the LSV just based on weight difference.

I would agree with this, but I would say the majority of people purchasing these boats are not weighting them as we do. I have no figures, but when I worked the boat show, there were numerous people that had questions and I would find myself referring them to do a search of this site for more info.

I would say the average boater who is just going to use the "average" pnp on top of stock ballast will be fine. You really need to sit back and think about how you are going to use your boat. Are you going to push it to the max with ballast, have 10-14 people on board, what is your altitude, etc. There are those who will be happy with the out of the box set up. I would venture to say the majority of people weight their boats heavier for surfing than they do wakeboarding.

I look at it like when people come on here and ask "what is the best tow vehicle? I think most would agree Diesel would be "the Best", but do you need it to pull a response? no. How steep are your ramps, will you need 4x4 at times, etc.

Think about how you are going to use the boat, demo one, and make your decision on that

Edited by wakebrdr94

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tjklein

^^^^^^ Touchdown of an answer. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (above)

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IXFE

For comparison sake, I have a VLX weighs probably 1000 lbs less with fuel and gear differences. I have Monsoon 350, 2315 prop, for surfing MLS full, wedge, 600's in each rear locker (650 full), 300+ extra bow weight, at sea level the 350 imo is maxed out. Typically my crew size is 4-6 people. I also have an extra 800 lb walkway bag I can use and this even convinced me more the 350 is at limitations.

I have never been in a new LSV with 350, I do however have substantial time in my VLX and with my findings the LS3 would be a worthwhile upgrade in the LSV just based on weight difference.

I would agree with Fman... the new LSV is much heavier than the VLX. I could feel it the minute I hooked it up to my Ecoboost. It even tows heavy.

I also agree with TJ when he says, skip some other options and get the LS3. Do you really think you'll regret it?? The only issue is you won't find an LS3 in your dealer's inventory, and at this point a custom build will put you deep into the season.

It's interesting to note that on the Malibu website it lists the VLX as 3,700 lbs. with a capacity of 14 people and the LSV as 4,500 lbs. with a capacity of 15 people. But if you look at the brochure book (I have one in front of me), it lists the VLX as 4,050 lbs. with a capacity of 13 people while the LSV specs are the same as on the website. I wonder what gives??

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nyryan2001

Arick- are you talking a '14 23 LSV? Or '13 and older?

If your are talking a '14 23LSV, you need a new salesman.... Or you don't plan to run your boat hard.

Anyone getting a '14 23LSV better get the 450 or 555.... Else it's gonna be like those '13 G23s with the 409s, taking $35-$45k hits on depreciation. ...

And even the '13 450 G23s on the older tranny to some extent. Malibu will need to follow with the new tranny and 17" props to get premier performance on this new huge 23 and MXZs.

If you don't run much over stock ballast and plan to keep it a long time then rock on with the purchase. Just don't expect a smooth sale or great trade in the near future, Fewer folks will want it with the 350.

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thtrog

Ryan,

Not trying to argue your reccomnedations, but it seems you consider the 2014 a new class of boat for Malibu. Sure more owners will run more ballast with the introduction of Surf Gate and PNP, but there's no significant weight difference in the new 23. It's like saying the SAN 230 and the G23 have the same requirements, no comparison IMO. I may be wrong, but don't see new tranny's in the future and nothing over a 15" prop will fit.

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wakebrdr94

Comparing the G and the LSV in terms of what is getting pushed through The water still isn't a fair comparison. The G dry weight is listed as 5400lbs with 2850lbs of stock ballast making it 8250lbs that need to get moving.

The LSV on the other hand is listed as 4500lbs with stock ballast of 900lbs. 1250 with a bow tank, bringing the weight to 5750lbs. 2500lb difference is big. Why does anyone need the huge motor if they are going to run stock ballast and not sack it out?

I understand the bigger is better concept, and if you can afford it, by all means. But I wouldn't walk away from a purchase if I couldn't.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by wakebrdr94

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nyryan2001

Pops, you are absolutely right, I do.... Also alluding to the increased compartments aka ballast carriers and what this new 23 will be capable of.

I was calling this out last fall when the first discussions on it were started... And all indications the new 23 owners so far appear to be dead on. It's a heavy boat already, to capitalize on what this new hull is capable of... You gotta have the hp to push it.

Stock ballast only and smaller crew, 350 on a 2315 will suffice.

Wanna slam it with 1100s in the trunks and the 1100 In the bow + a crew of 6-10? Or at elevation? Better have the 450 or 555.

Would be very interested to see what these actually weigh on the trailer. My bet is 7500-8k.

Edited by nyryan2001

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nyryan2001

And a stock G23 on a trailer is 8500, assume 15-1700 for the trailer.

When boat manf publish weights.... Think about what influences they have in determining exactly what they list as a "dry" weight. They wanna sell boats, so they run 1000-2000 under what any of us drop at the ramp.

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Fman

Arick- are you talking a '14 23 LSV? Or '13 and older?

If your are talking a '14 23LSV, you need a new salesman.... Or you don't plan to run your boat hard.

Anyone getting a '14 23LSV better get the 450 or 555.... Else it's gonna be like those '13 G23s with the 409s, taking $35-$45k hits on depreciation. ...

And even the '13 450 G23s on the older tranny to some extent. Malibu will need to follow with the new tranny and 17" props to get premier performance on this new huge 23 and MXZs.

If you don't run much over stock ballast and plan to keep it a long time then rock on with the purchase. Just don't expect a smooth sale or great trade in the near future, Fewer folks will want it with the 350.

^^^^ touchdown of an answer! Especially someone coming from the super boat category.

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Fman

Comparing the G and the LSV in terms of what is getting pushed through The water still isn't a fair comparison. The G dry weight is listed as 5400lbs with 2850lbs of stock ballast making it 8250lbs that need to get moving. The LSV on the other hand is listed as 4500lbs with stock ballast of 900lbs. 1250 with a bow tank, bringing the weight to 5750lbs. 2500lb difference is big. Why does anyone need the huge motor if they are going to run stock ballast and not sack it out? I understand the bigger is better concept, and if you can afford it, by all means. But I wouldn't walk away from a purchase if I couldn't. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who is going to buy a lsv and not sack it out? I don't know how much surfgate experience you have on the water, but it requires a lot of weight to achieve a good wake. The LSV weighted, with a large crew could easily be over 10,000 lbs on the water.

Boat 4,500

Oem ballast 1,300 lbs

Wedge 400-800 lbs

Fuel 450 lbs

Gear 500 lbs

Passenger weight 1,500 lbs

PnP rear sacks 1,500 lbs

That is 10,500 lbs and that does not even include a bow sac of any type. Plus stereo equipment, batteries, etc.. It adds up quickly.

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tnsatbhs

Has anyone weighed the new LSV on a trailer? I would bet its more than 4500 pounds... I think the new LSV is going to prove to be like the MXZs as far as engine upgrades go. A lot of people ended up upgrading the engines on them. It all comes down to what you want to do, but if you order the 350, think of how mad you will be the first time your $80,000-$90,000 boat struggles to do something... That was the big seller for me, not like you can just add more engine later like you can with almost any other option on these boats.

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wakebrdr94
Who is going to buy a lsv and not sack it out? I don't know how much surfgate experience you have on the water, but it requires a lot of weight to achieve a good wake. The LSV weighted, with a large crew could easily be over 10,000 lbs on the water.

Boat 4,500

Oem ballast 1,300 lbs

Wedge 400-800 lbs

Fuel 450 lbs

Gear 500 lbs

Passenger weight 1,500 lbs

PnP rear sacks 1,500 lbs

That is 10,500 lbs and that does not even include a bow sac of any type. Plus stereo equipment, batteries, etc.. It adds up quickly.

People on here or who have a semi idea of what to do will sack it out. The average guy who buys a boat to take the family out will not. Which In my opinion is a lot more buyers than people think. You start talking to people about PNP, and ballast, etc, you get a lot of "I don't need that". You usually convince them to get it "just in case". But adding 500 (or what ever the cost) is nothing compared to adding 15k for a motor. Just because you can spend 100k on a boat does not mean you know what to do with it.

Kind of like the guy who can afford and buys a Ferrari, but never goes faster than 65mph. Or the guy that buys an Xstar for the family simply because he's told it's the best

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Edited by wakebrdr94

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kaddman

I got the 450 and I'm glad I did. It was like a $7800 upgrade. At 33 mhp it just sounds mean. The power is there when u need it. I think the 350 would be fine but I didn't want to chance it. I plan on keeping for 5 years.

Jk

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wakebrdr94

And I am in no way saying getting the bigger motor is a bad idea. I'm merely saying you do not need a diesel to pull a jet ski.

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tn_rider

I have an 07 with the 350 and I load it with as much as you can possibly put in it. I've had 5000 pounds without the wedge and 2315 prop and it comes on plane. If I could do it over again I'd get the bigger motor. Never again will I own a 23 ft boat with a 350 in it. I love the shape that the wedge gives the wake, but can't use the wedge because my 07 has the manual wedge. If I had the bigger motor I believe I could get that weight on plane with the wedge. Get the bigger motor. You will be happy you dod

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wakebrdr94

Adding 5k of ballast? That's a ton of weight, more actually. Yes, in that example absolutely.

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gorilla

I also have a 2007 LSV with the 350. I wouldn't order a new one with this motor just because the 2014 is a heavier boat to begin with and has more room/gunwale height for more ballast and equipment. I am at the rub rail when I surf and the motor will only struggle when I have a larger crew, like 9-10 people (need a little more bow weight then, but I don't like someone sitting up there causing the front to chilly-dip). 450hp motor all the way!!!!

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Nitrousbird

Adding 5k of ballast? That's a ton of weight, more actually. Yes, in that example absolutely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His boat also has a narrower beam and is lighter than a '14. Who really wants to push the limits that far with a prop? People are suggesting the 2419 with the 350 - that's a crazy aggressive prop with a top speed (on the rev limiter) of probably 35MPH and a cruising speed of 25.

The 350 (GEN-I SBC) is a solid motor, but it was last updated 18 years ago...technology has moved on, engine design efficiency has moved well past it. An LS3 will burn less fuel, weigh less AND make a ton more power. A worthy upgrade.

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