FAE, yay or nay?

[racer808]

Got my notice of ship Wednesday, FAE was on my porch today. That is some darn quick shipping!

[oldjeep]

Defacto,

Ditto what SD said. i had issues with a washed out surf wave and was a bit morbid in some threads here. After some (a LOT) of fidgeting with shofting things side to side and up or down I was able to achieve a non-effecting result. Hence why I said if it is set up "properly".

The biggest problem with FAE imo is that "properly" can be very difficult and time consuming. As mentioned it's not quite so plug and play.

If they are making a 1 piece unit now then hopefully they figured out "properly" since there would be no adjustment in one that isn't all band clamped together.

[TrickyNicky]

If they are making a 1 piece unit now then hopefully they figured out "properly" since there would be no adjustment in one that isn't all band clamped together.

If this is true than the problem is going to come up in measuring your boat "properly" as you provide the dimensions to them for fabrication and it's not the simplest measurements to get accurate.

I get the idea but I think on a dual exhaust boat that it's easier to stick with the 3 piece system.

[racer808]

It's definitely not "plug and play..." There's a fair amount of MacGuyvering to be done. At least there was on mine.

. Lots of McGuyvering. Wasn't too bad though. Stainless cuts a lot easier then I thought it would. Got it done in about 3 hours by myself.

[Zeke83]

. Lots of McGuyvering. Wasn't too bad though. Stainless cuts a lot easier then I thought it would. Got it done in about 3 hours by myself.

Pictures?

[racer808]

Directions are somewhat good if you are good at McGuyvering & figuring things out on your own. Not so good for someone who isn't. They don't touch on what to do when things don't fit. The exhaust flange is angled up high for good reason, but the exhaust hose & clamp they provide won't fit thru the black exhaust ports where the flange mounts so you have to file the black trim down.

They should give a better detail & instruction on lining up your all thread & support bar. I found it a lot easier to yank off the swim deck, put the threaded rod & support bar in, put swim deck back on to measure what you need to cut off. Measure twice, cut once. I cut smaller bits at a time as it is easy to take more off, can't put more on if you screw up. Standard steel bits & sawzall blades will go right through the stainless steel bar & tubing. Used my dremil to trim the all thread, warning it eats your dremel cutting blades. Larry is just a phone call way, I only had to call him once & it was for the dumbest question cause I just wasn't thinking. Wedge wouldn't go back up & I didn't even think to rotate the outlet further forward an inch. I was tired by then & had a couple drinks so I have an excuse....

Wedge is sort of pain to get down now, not sure how it's gonna be on the water, but it does go right back up. Looking forward to hearing it on the water.

[dalt1]

We bought black to save $. I don't think they offer it unless you specially ask. Same boat as you, we have turn downs but haven't installed yet.

If your interested in selling those turn downs after install of FAE, let me know I would be interested. That goes for anyone else swapping out turn downs to FAE. Looking to add a little bling to my transom. Don't need FAE though.

[wakesetter8796]

Ok, keeping them for now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[racer808]

Just a note, FAE no longer has black as an option, I asked

[Bawshogg]

As appealing as the FAE has always seemed to me for the sound deadening reasons and whatever perceived safety factors come into play........I just can't convince myself to bolt one of those jenky looking thing onto the back of ANY 50-100k $ boat I have ever owned. It looks like it belongs on the underside of an rv attached to the commode.

If I was gonna do something like that and charge that much for it, it would be mandrel bent ,engineered to fit the boat and fully TIG welded. No BS cheated bends, crappy hose clamps, and ALLTHREAD for gods sake.

Think G series surf pipe.

[shawndoggy]

As appealing as the FAE has always seemed to me for the sound deadening reasons and whatever perceived safety factors come into play........I just can't convince myself to bolt one of those jenky looking thing onto the back of ANY 50-100k $ boat I have ever owned. It looks like it belongs on the underside of an rv attached to the commode.

If I was gonna do something like that and charge that much for it, it would be mandrel bent ,engineered to fit the boat and fully TIG welded. No BS cheated bends, crappy hose clamps, and ALLTHREAD for gods sake.

Think G series surf pipe.

Yeah man, totally. I'm not one to worry too much about what's under the water line, but it's still definitely not up to the same sort of standard as most everything else "marine." Of course, once the CNC/mandrel/tig/plug-n-play version comes out, it will cost $895.

[Bawshogg]

Your probably right. I think it could be done for less, but as with any aftermarket add-on there is always a ton of RD with model changes, ECT. Drives up cost.

The material involved is not super expensive and two mandrel "u" bends can get it built.

For something that looks like it belongs on a high end wake boat, offers the same reduction in sound and CO ........I would pay 850 for it.

[Zeke83]

As appealing as the FAE has always seemed to me for the sound deadening reasons and whatever perceived safety factors come into play........I just can't convince myself to bolt one of those jenky looking thing onto the back of ANY 50-100k $ boat I have ever owned. It looks like it belongs on the underside of an rv attached to the commode.

If I was gonna do something like that and charge that much for it, it would be mandrel bent ,engineered to fit the boat and fully TIG welded. No BS cheated bends, crappy hose clamps, and ALLTHREAD for gods sake.

Think G series surf pipe.

Good thing mines only worth about 13k, on a good day. Hey, they have tubes to sleeve the all thread, for a little extra lol. If I can slap a 2x4 cuttin board surf gate on the back end whats an rv s***ter looking contraption gonna hurt, it gets results!

[Bradley Thornton]

Some info link has the rest and pics

Going to update this one got the hose from West Marine for $187 bought 5ft I cut it in 2 1/2ft sections. I put it on the exhaust side (bottom side) first and add 3 clamps then bent it up and left it over night to let it get use to being bent. Then bent it to fit the motor side of the exhaust pipe had it just to the side of the exhaust to see how much I was going to have to cut off. On the passanger side I cut off 5 1/2in and on the driver side I cut off 4 1/2in maybe different for you just some info. After cutting I mounted it back on the exhaust side and clamped down the 3 clamps. Then installed on the motor side by all means getting it on the motor side was not easy didn't take long but I had to put out. After I had it on and was happy with it I added 2 clamps to that side. Because you have so many clamps on the silancer didn't see any reason not to use them on the new pipes. On a side note I put my hand in the silencer and I think it restricts way more than the FAE ever could has anyone ever cut one open I would cut mine but it works great and they are $445 new from bakes may sell and get a skim board. Haven't tried yet hope to today but it looks great and I have way more room. Read info below with pics

First off the silencer looks to be water goes in and then comes out but thats not how it works. It goes in the one pipe then goes around the other pipe in these little chambers and I guess comes out in the middle then goes over to the other pipes and out you can see a little in the pic but if you take it off and put your hand in it you will see what I am talking about.

http://www.themalibu...aust-hose-help/

[oldjeep]

As appealing as the FAE has always seemed to me for the sound deadening reasons and whatever perceived safety factors come into play........I just can't convince myself to bolt one of those jenky looking thing onto the back of ANY 50-100k $ boat I have ever owned. It looks like it belongs on the underside of an rv attached to the commode.

If I was gonna do something like that and charge that much for it, it would be mandrel bent ,engineered to fit the boat and fully TIG welded. No BS cheated bends, crappy hose clamps, and ALLTHREAD for gods sake.

Think G series surf pipe.

My biggest hang up with it is that I can't understand how it doesn't impact performance when the design basically fires the exhaust from one bank straight into the other and then uses the pressure of the conflicting banks to force it out a 90 degree transition. If you put that type of exhaust transition on any other vehicle you wouldn't find anyone suggesting it was a good idea.

[Bawshogg]

You are completely right. Problem is it is very hard to measure HP/ torque lost on a boat other than seat of the pants.....or shorts I guess.

Time to specific speeds is another way to measure , but not completely accurate either. A nice smooth flowing mandrel bent pipe flowing into a proper "y" junction at the end would be a much better solution.

[Zeke83]

My biggest hang up with it is that I can't understand how it doesn't impact performance when the design basically fires the exhaust from one bank straight into the other and then uses the pressure of the conflicting banks to force it out a 90 degree transition. If you put that type of exhaust transition on any other vehicle you wouldn't find anyone suggesting it was a good idea.

You should read through some of the literature they have on their websight. As mentioned earlier with cost, R&D is not cheap. They have graphed performance curves and did things like measuring the exhaust system back pressure that the system creates under different loads. With the prop stream flowing around the outlet, it creates a venturi effect and actually sucks the exhaust out of the headers. Any other "vehicle" wouldnt have the dynamic effect of water creating a vacuum around the outlet. Now thats not to say that a Y junction instead of 90's wouldnt further improve the performance. If I could just get the tip, I wouldnt hesitate to fabricate and weld the rest. Its a pretty simple fabrication. The only part that isnt is the design and shape of the outlet. You could get it "close" but you cant be sure you would see the same performance as it wouldnt be tested and R&D'd.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Zeke83

[JohnnyDefacto]

I don't have a problem with how it looks, its functional for sure, not the prettiest thing, but a lot of people feel that way about Axis…. mostly function. I don't think any of my top speed loss or inability-to-plane is from extra back pressure or convergence of opposing exhausts… I truly believe it is solely the fact that a 3-4" diameter pipe is dragging 1 foot under water behind my boat. It changed my wake enough for me to pull it off, but I am anxious to take a day to test it again, this time I will do a proper test similar to my prop tests I have done over the last 2 years.

My idea, and please someone correct me if my thinking is totally flawed, is to do a bunch of tests with it on, then pull the boat, rotate the down pipe so that it is sticking straight out and retest. Then pull the boat out, completely remove the FAE and retest.

This may answer a few of our questions.

[oldjeep]

You should read through some of the literature they have on their websight. As mentioned earlier with cost, R&D is not cheap. They have graphed performance curves and did things like measuring the exhaust system back pressure that the system creates under different loads. With the prop stream flowing around the outlet, it creates a venturi effect and actually sucks the exhaust out of the headers. Any other "vehicle" wouldnt have the dynamic effect of water creating a vacuum around the outlet.

I have looked at their charts, and this statement by the back pressure chart pretty much makes their "dynamic vacuum" irrelevant. The chart shows that the back pressure is 50% higher at 3000RPM and 100% higher at 3500 - WOT. Not something I would willingly do to an engine that I paid for.

Boat engine manufacturers specify that the exhaust back pressure not exceed 2 psi as higher levels may impair engine performance. On typical boats FAE does not increase exhaust back pressure above 2 psi except at engine speeds above 3500 rpm. With FAE installed, the typical boat loses 1-1/2 to 2 mph of top end speed

What I'm curious about is if they have ever attempted to build one of these using traditional exhaust transitions so that they are not pumping one bank into the other.

[Zeke83]

Backpressure increase as previously mentioned cause by two opposing banks firing at each other, subtracted by the venturi effect? Giving you slightly higher back pressure than you started with. I would guess this is whats going on. Without that venturi effect then yes, it is a bad design. And as also previously mentioned, if its not adjusted properly I can see how having the outlet pipe slightly higher or lower that it should be, not centered in the prop stream would create performance issues.

[oldjeep]

Backpressure increase as previously mentioned cause by two opposing banks firing at each other, subtracted by the venturi effect? Giving you slightly higher back pressure than you started with. I would guess this is whats going on. Without that venturi effect then yes, it is a bad design. And as also previously mentioned, if its not adjusted properly I can see how having the outlet pipe slightly higher or lower that it should be, not centered in the prop stream would create performance issues.

with the venturi effect you are still over the recommended 2 psi at skiing speed /rpm

[shawndoggy]

I have looked at their charts, and this statement by the back pressure chart pretty much makes their "dynamic vacuum" irrelevant. The chart shows that the back pressure is 50% higher at 3000RPM and 100% higher at 3500 - WOT. Not something I would willingly do to an engine that I paid for.

Boat engine manufacturers specify that the exhaust back pressure not exceed 2 psi as higher levels may impair engine performance. On typical boats FAE does not increase exhaust back pressure above 2 psi except at engine speeds above 3500 rpm. With FAE installed, the typical boat loses 1-1/2 to 2 mph of top end speed

What I'm curious about is if they have ever attempted to build one of these using traditional exhaust transitions so that they are not pumping one bank into the other.

PCM endorsed nautique's application of the concept.

[Bawshogg]

PCM endorsed nautique's application of the concept.

And look at the differences in the design.........

I would like to see a rendition of this for a dual outlet setup. This is exactly what I was referring to in the earlier posts.

I could build mine own if I only had the time. That's usually the X factor for me.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Bobby Bright

[oldjeep]

PCM endorsed nautique's application of the concept.

ok does their application increase backpressure out of spec? What does nautiques look like?

Found a pic - that looks like a proper exhaust. For a boat with dual exhaust if you put 2 of those on in a mirror image then from a backpressure perspective it should be fine.

Edited April 20, 2014 by oldjeep

[shawndoggy]

ok does their application increase backpressure out of spec? What does nautiques look like?

Found a pic - that looks like a proper exhaust. For a boat with dual exhaust if you put 2 of those on in a mirror image then from a backpressure perspective it should be fine.

you do realize that the dual exaust combines into one inside the boat, right? I mean PCM is using the same motors that indmar does (for the most part).

I'll snap a pic of mine tomorrow.... I have a pcm motor with single 4" exhaust, so conceptually mine is the same as the pcm version, but not nearly as purdy in execution.

Edited April 20, 2014 by shawndoggy