Boat sinks from Malibu wake

[MalibuTime]

................

[Arizona247]

Doesn't matter, it's a red malibu! Your fault!!!!! Way to ruin it for the others. ^^^^^^^^sounds like an excuse to me?

That's it…I am selling it and getting a blue 247…lol

[wakebrdr94]

I was hoping you were the red Bu in the keys with me, I'd keep your identity safe out there but they do not have a 247

[5inthesun]

I'm trying to stay cool on this topic, but this and a post (about upgrading the stereo in order to achieve his Full Arse Display) from the other thread have me steamed.

It's incredibly presumptive of you to know that he's "too damn cheap" to fix his property. It doesn't matter to you that he's been there since before you were born, or that 18' was a huge boat when he built it, or that he's OK with normal wakes. You showed up one day and everything changed. Now his boat house has a wet rug every time you come by and you have no idea why he's even mad. Good thing, though, because you're mad at him. Great. He's probably never even seen $80K, or spent that much on a house, much less a boat. Oh, yeah, he forgot. He's just too damn cheap.

And yet you want proof that your wake causes damage. Stop and talk to the man and he'll show you the damage. Stop by here and I'll show you the damage. Every once in a while nature whips up a big storm and makes waves, but they tend to be small in protected waters. Also, wind-blown waves don't carry the same energy that a full-curl breaker does. The bad storm comes every few years, and he makes repairs. You come every weekend. You look at the accrued damage from wakes and call him too cheap to fix anything. He curses your very being for your curlers ruining his house. What happens when he does decide to chase you down to explain it to you? Are you even going to listen, or are you going to tell him that you were 200 feet away, and he can't do anything about it? Then drive off and turn up your stereo?

I chased a cabin boat down one day after I'd had enough of National Maximum Wake day (while I was busy repairing the rip-rap at my mother's house), and he got all visceral on me while I explained that he was responsible for his wake and that I was calling the Coast Guard with his registration numbers. He denied causing damage at all and gave me a bunch of lip. Apparently his wife explained it to him later, because he now idles all the way out of the bayou. But it cost both of us gray hair, and was very close to getting ugly.

By the way, the Coast Guard told me to go pound sand. And as for me, I personally have over $15K in my mother's rip-rap wall, because she can't afford to fix it. Every time a big wake comes in and I watch 50# limestone rocks move around, I curse the boat drivers who just don't get it.

If you are in an area making a wave bigger than nature ever could in that place, you cause damage that nature can't. If you do it more often than nature does, you cause more damage than nature does. It might be only a little bit each time, but the damage accumulates and it's your fault. Accelerating someones' repair schedule may not occur to you as your damage, but it is. You want a bunch of photos? They're a waste of time, because you'll deny that it was you that caused any damage. And a Malibu couldn't possibly sink another boat, because you didn't see it happen.

So all you maximum wake guys just keep your heads in the sand. You have your rights. You don't cause erosion. You never cause damage to anyones' property. You don't need to even consider what the other side of the coin looks like, because you're right and the other guy has no reason to hate you. Turn the stereo up to 11 and enjoy yourselves.

I'll give you a test: Go out and do your maximum wake thing a few hundred feet from a dock, then go tie up to the dock and wait for your own wake to come by. You might just end up hating yourself.

I love how people say "I am trying to stay cool" and then they take 10 minutes to write out a chapter long rant!

[Bill_AirJunky]

I call BS. If his bilge was working, it should be able to take a roller..., or two or three. I'd be willing to bet that there were issues with the boat. I'm not disputing that some idiot wasn't buzzing the docks with a massive surf wake but you still have to be aware of your boat and your surroundings in a boat that may possibly be sunk with a roller or two.

I hope you don't really believe this. Seems like at least once a year we see a sunk boat & their bilge pump didn't do anything to get it pumped out in time. When things go wrong out there, things happen fast. And the bilge pump just doesn't pump that fast.

[MalibuTime]

For sure bilge pump is for pumping out the bilge, not the entire boat, at least if you are in any sort of hurry. Edit. Unless you have a bilge pump that goes to 11.

Edited April 14, 2014 by MalibuTime

[BlastRlxi]

Wasn't there a thread a year or two ago about a Response Lxi that took two rollers over the side and sunk? I think it was brought up again fairly recently.

[pook77]

I keep an extra Tsunami pump in my boat as a backup. Just in case the bilge dies and I am taking on water.

[shawndoggy]

Wasn't there a thread a year or two ago about a Response Lxi that took two rollers over the side and sunk? I think it was brought up again fairly recently.

from a jet ski.

[Bill_AirJunky]

I keep an extra Tsunami pump in my boat as a backup. Just in case the bilge dies and I am taking on water.

The Tsunami is an upgrade from what? Like 700 gpm to 1100 gpm? I would question if even that was fast enough to make a difference.

I had a buddy on Sammamish a few years ago who hit something in the water at speed. When he hit it, he stopped, fearing the worst. Sure enough, he was taking on a LOT of water fast. He beached the boat. Probably saved it from sinking.

[dfarhood]

Wasn't there a thread a year or two ago about a Response Lxi that took two rollers over the side and sunk? I think it was brought up again fairly recently.

Yes

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45115-very-very-sad-day/

[wakesetter8796]

Yeah I wonder what happened. I think the member's name was Frog or something.

[BlastRlxi]

Yes

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45115-very-very-sad-day/

Yup, that's it.

[aggie08]

Man, I said it on the last wake regulations thread, but there's a fundamental chasm between how we'd like these issues handled (face to face meetings, earnest discussions, both sides using reason, logic, and better judgement) and how they actually are and will be going forward (HOA meetings, angry complaints, overarching stereotypes, and eco-warriors coming out of the woodwork). Talk about how it "should be" all you want...it ain't happening.

Like it or not, when ANYTHING goes wrong or any frustrations arise, it's likely to be blamed on us at the average lake. Wakeboats are generally (please notice the word "generally"...so don't get offended if none of these apply to you) seen as the loudest, youngest, brashest, largest wake-having crowds. And our desire for calm water often brings us in close proximity to houses, the shore, and fishing boats. We have to behave BETTER than the average boater to negate some of these generalizations. Give even the most ornery homeowner absolutely nothing to complain about. All it takes is one complaint to be made to the HOA or the city, throw in the words "environmental preservation" to gain some traction in today's society, and before you know it, a new law is being voted on. These bans are real, and they are the future.

How you'd handle these situations and how you'd want other people to handle them has nothing to do with anything. It's not reality.

[wakebrdr94]

A buddy's tige sank while out Parker years ago. They were floating down river, 3 guys on the swim step, one in the boat. Took a couple rollers over the transom. They were big, but didn't really look like they would do much harm. (This was a dd). He was already in the boat so he started it and gave it throttle to get the water to the back. Everything was okay, but when he turned, the whole boat just capsized into the turn. It was the weirdest thing ever. We figure there was much more water than we thought (obviously) but the water shifted to the one side of the boat as he made his turn. Of course everyone who was around went to his aide. Shore cop saw it as he was passing by on the road ahead.

Crappy part was he got DUI as well when the water cops showed up. Granted he'd been doing some drinking (it was a bachelor party) but that was totally beyond his control.

5 boats went for the bachelor party, only 4 came back. Sounds like a cool story to an epic bachelor party, except how the boat went down. Not so epic.

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[jcon44]

A buddy's tige sank while out Parker years ago. They were floating down river, 3 guys on the swim step, one in the boat. Took a couple rollers over the transom. They were big, but didn't really look like they would do much harm. (This was a dd). He was already in the boat so he started it and gave it throttle to get the water to the back. Everything was okay, but when he turned, the whole boat just capsized into the turn. It was the weirdest thing ever. We figure there was much more water than we thought (obviously) but the water shifted to the one side of the boat as he made his turn. Of course everyone who was around went to his aide. Shore cop saw it as he was passing by on the road ahead.

Crappy part was he got DUI as well when the water cops showed up. Granted he'd been doing some drinking (it was a bachelor party) but that was totally beyond his control.

5 boats went for the bachelor party, only 4 came back. Sounds like a cool story to an epic bachelor party, except how the boat went down. Not so epic.

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That Sux, how do you get a DUI when your boat is at the bottom of the lake?

[Bill_AirJunky]

That Sux, how do you get a DUI when your boat is at the bottom of the lake?

It's the Parker Strip & cops are abundant there. They have a reputation for being one of the most dangerous stretches of water in the US. Back in the 80s, if your insurance company knew you frequented the Strip, they'd cancel you.

One time were at Mack's Arizona Shores motel. It was late, like 10pm, after riding all day. We were on the shore, playing on the trampoline. We heard a boat wound up tight, engine at high Rs, in the dark, then a big crash & then nothing. We jumped into 2 of Mike's boats & went up the river around the first corner, shining the spot lights all over the river. We came up on some seat cushions, a girl swimming & frantically crying, more debris, then the bow of a picklefork boat. We ended up picking up 4 people out of the water that night. The driver never saw the river turn & hit the rock wall at full speed. How they survived is beyond me. But when we took them to the closest boat ramp, the cops were there waiting for them.

I think it's a lot mellower on the Strip now than it was. But still a lot crazier than any lake or river here in the PNW.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Bill_AirJunky

[wakebrdr94]

You know, the cops have mellowed in the past few years. You see them, but not like in the old days. You'd think with all the boats that visit bars at night, you'd see cops on the water at night. I've only seen them out at night once. Of course I don't head out on big weekends. It's become a lot more family friendly than in the past. You still get your morons driving at night full throttle, why is beyond me, but they still do. I know the river really well, but still do not drive fast at night.

[robtr8]

Isn't it 30 MPH at night like everywhere else??

I also thought a Boaters Safety Course was mandatory for everyone born after 1984??

I thought all states just followed USCG regs.

[malibu2004]

Yep...this kind of stuff and 47,000 Watt sound systems blasting out the latest profanity ridden tunes by P Diddy....

It's a matter of time....

At 6am in the morning.

It already happen on the Willamette River in Oregon.

[malibu2004]

Someone mentioned boat licenses... in Oregon you do have to get a boat license. I forget how many hour course it is, and it cost money, but you will be ticketed if you are caught driving a boat without one. The course itself is ok, better than nothing. Im a certified airboat and jet boat operator for the company I work for, so there wasnt much I learned, but for the general boating public, I think most benefit from having to take the course. I cant count how many times, and Im sure we all have, im cussing under my breath, or above it, trying to pull out of the zoo that boat launches can be with people that are totally oblivious to the danger and damage they are causing.

It's free and you can take it online. It's just a piece of paper that means nothing.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Isn't it 30 MPH at night like everywhere else??

I also thought a Boaters Safety Course was mandatory for everyone born after 1984??

I thought all states just followed USCG regs.

You should check.

In WA state it's idle speed only after dark. A couple of years ago we had a high profile case go down in the Seattle area where a Supra doing about 20 mph ran over a Bayliner & killed one of the guys. The DA filed manslaughter by watercraft charges against the Supra owner, which means he had to prove the Supra owner was totally at fault. But the defense was able to prove that there are very few signs flaunting this fact, and almost no enforcement at all. Not to mention a lot of other details that indicated there was plenty of blame to go around.

It is however in the study materials for the boater's education card (NOT a license).

Edited April 14, 2014 by Bill_AirJunky

[tncumminsguy]

Having owned a 1972 18' nordic jet boat that sat inches off the water and now having the malibu wakesetter with an extra 1500# of ballast for surfing I can see both sides case. Personally that boat tied up must have had something else wrong with it to aid in the sinking, it's pretty high out of the water for that style of boat. But as a boat owner now with a HUGE wake, I see the responsibility you need to take in mind as the driver. Where I keep the boat we have tons of cruisers, and pretty much everyone hates them. During the 2012 season my dash broke because of someone with their 60ft boat wake, and I have flooded the boat a few times because of these giant wakes. I think it just kindof comes with the territory of being on open water. Now back in a cove etc, watch your damn wakes

[Zeke83]

It's free and you can take it online. It's just a piece of paper that means nothing.

Thats right, its free if you take it directly from the state. Your also right, i misspoke, its not a "license," but rather a boater education card. I used some company that gets you a temp one quickly and handles all the forms, it was $30. It is however not just a piece of paper, and it does mean something as far as having to pay a fine and return to the dock or not. It does also get enforced. I watched boat after boat get cited last year at Blues Fest downtown (what a zoo) for not having their card. I myself was checked twice, at Henry Hag and on the Willamette and the first thing they ask for is your boaters card. So i guess if you dont mind paying a fine every time you get inspected and maybe having to dock it depending on how the officer feels that day... Up here in Alaska we can still do what we want, little to no regs or laws. I feel a lot less restricted on the water, and the boating public up here is generally a lot more conscious and considerate then other places I have boated.

Actually I take that back, there is a $10 fee even when taken directly from the state. If you want to call it a "Boater Education Card" then go ahead, that’s actually what it says on the card itself, but fact of the matter is its a license. I cant talk for other states but I think they may "require" this as well. How effective this is in actually making people safer would rest heavily on how much it is actually enforced. You are required to have the card on your person when operating a boat, or you will be fined, and depending on the circumstance, told to return to the dock (I personally watch this happen). There is a required course you have to take and pay for, either online from the Oregon State Marine board, in a classroom from a certified source i.e. coast guard, state marine board ect. or from a third party... how is this not a license? Short of a sea trial which would be impractical as far as the # of people and cost to the DMV it sure looks like a license to me. I had to answer far fewer questions on my written CDL test than in that course. Again, I’m sure other states have the same thing and maybe don’t enforce it as heavily, in that case yeah, it wouldn’t mean much.

830.094 Boating safety certificate required to operate motorboat. A person shall carry a boating safety certificate on the boat while operating a motorboat, as required, and shall present the certificate to a peace officer upon request by the peace officer. [1999 c.716 §8; 2003 c.14 §500]

(2) A person who violates ORS 830.050, 830.088, 830.090, 830.092, 830.094, 830.230, 830.415, 830.710, 830.720, 830.770, 830.780, 830.810, 830.850 or 830.855, or rules adopted to carry out the purposes of those statutes, commits a Class D violation.

There’s a couple more statutes related to the card in there... again, if they didn’t enforce it what would it matter, but they do. And the more that they have problems with the boating public the heavier enforcement will get.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Zeke83

[wakeboarder3780]

You know, I'm not trying to escalate things with you (although i know this will), but you are somewhat contradictory to yourself. Yes we agree on certain points, but you made it a point in the other thread to say what a responsible person you are, "I personally have both a budget set aside for fixing my own dock AND a budget set aside for fixing anothers dock if I actually caused an issue" Your words. Now you are saying too bad and they should maintain it themselves.

I see the confusion. I think it depends how you define "maintenance" let me explain:

Things I feel I'm responsible for:

• I drive by another boat at the legal or greater distance and I cause them harm to their boat in any way.
• I drive by anothers property at the legal or greater distance and directly damage their floating dock (such as the floating tank breaks off, or a hinge breaks, etc)
• I drive by another's property at the legal or greater distance and directly damage something else.

Things I dont feel I'm responsible for:

• I drive by someones property at the legal or greater distance. My waves eventually reach their shore and erosion occurs. I do not feel it's my job to pay them money because they choose not to invest in rip rap (erosion prevention maint)
• I drive by someones property at the legal or greater distance and their boat house is run down. My waves eventually hit his terribly broken boat house that is already half in the water. I do not feel it's my job to pay to fix the problem he already had.
• I drive by someones property at the legal or greater distance and their dock which is already half in the water (literally is not functional - is not even floating correctly) and it finally gives its last breath and the floating section breaks off. I do not feel it's my job to pay to fix his previously terribly unmaintained dock.

In my personal experience, the people that want to ban wakeboats are in the bottom category. They do not take normal preventative measures nor do they maintain their docks / boat houses / etc properly and get mad at the wake boat for taking the last swing at it. I have no problem paying for damage I objectively cause. Perfect example being the article you linked. If I was that red malibu owner AND i sunk that person's boat, I would be paying the entire bill, apologizing as much as I could and doing everything i could to get him exactly what he had to make it like it never happened. Not because I don't want him to get mad at wakeboats and ban us (although thats an added perk) but because its the responsible thing to do.

In my mind responsibility goes both ways. If I build a $100 dock made of toothpicks I have no right to go after the first boat that comes my way and ask him to rebuild my toothpick dock because his wake caused the damage. I have to take responsibility for the choice to create a $100 toothpick dock and recognize I need something more robust. My comment about brank roll was me trying to say the responsible thing to do is make sure I have enough money afford rip-rap, robust docks, and robust boat houses OR at least take responsibility for the damage to the property instead of blaming boaters.

If you follow my thinking above, my expectations are that lake home owners are also responsible. Part of being responsible in my mind encompasses taking the reasonable steps to protect your own investments from waves. Rip-rap especially when it comes to erosion discussions. Obviously my bad for not explaining well enough if you felt my thoughts contradicted themselves, no reason for me to get mad at you. The only thing I've gotten mad about is people telling me I'm the guy who runs 10' off of other boaters and that I'm a music blaster.

If I'm still sounding confusing let me know. It makes sense in my mind

Edited April 16, 2014 by wakeboarder3780