MXZ Surfing? Can it be DIALED? What does it take?

[Tims]

Displacement. One extra foot of hull roughly eight feet wide by about a foot deep displaces about 500 pounds of water. Displacing water while moving through it is what causes a wake. More displacement equals bigger wake from the same hull shape.

So a 24mxz surfs better than a 23lsv?

[dDubya]

That is kinda what I've been assuming. Coming from an LSV with a dialed surf wake, it has proven very difficult to find an equal. What I've been seeing while demoing every other new boat in NorCal, the ones with pickle fork bow (RZ2, F22, MXZ) tend to capture a huge amount of water between the listed side "pickle" and the centerline of the hull and redirect it over the wave. This makes the wave very "dirty" and invisible under the spray. There is still a surfable wave under the spray, but not being able to see the wave makes it very hard to judge take-off and landing zones.

[DocPhil]

That is kinda what I've been assuming. Coming from an LSV with a dialed surf wake, it has proven very difficult to find an equal. What I've been seeing while demoing every other new boat in NorCal, the ones with pickle fork bow (RZ2, F22, MXZ) tend to capture a huge amount of water between the listed side "pickle" and the centerline of the hull and redirect it over the wave. This makes the wave very "dirty" and invisible under the spray. There is still a surfable wave under the spray, but not being able to see the wave makes it very hard to judge take-off and landing zones.

I think that is a very accurate observation and exactly what I have noticed during demos. I never thought of a reason for it but that makes sense

If you think about it, most of the flagship surf boats of the different manufacturers seem to be the traditional bow boats. Could be a coincidence I suppose but I doubt it

[saidainc]

A reading comprehension class would do you well.

My statement was that his comments would be 100x more helpful with a few pics.

I know, completely Ludicrous. Insane. Flaws all over.

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Really? I have a masters in Journalism so I pretty sure I am on the mark, what's your excuse?

Let me highlight what you wrote and politely reaffirm your lack of tacit comprehension here:

The thread is about 22 MXZ as a surfboat... Few folks have demonstrated the 22mxz is a terrific surf boat as compared to the others in the lineup

Few folks have DEMONSTRATED the 22mxz is a terrific surf boat. My retort (follow me here because I am quite sure your response will probably be facile and take a personal angle) was that few who have other boats rarely need to demonstrate that their boat is a terrific surf boat because it is often implied. Why should MXZ owners be required to demonstrate anything? Reread the initial thread. Those who detract from the boat's surf wave should demonstrate that it is NOT, rather than is.

[nyryan2001]

Really? I have a masters in Journalism so I pretty sure I am on the mark, what's your excuse?

Let me highlight what you wrote and politely reaffirm your lack of tacit comprehension here:

The thread is about 22 MXZ as a surfboat... Few folks have demonstrated the 22mxz is a terrific surf boat as compared to the others in the lineup

Few folks have DEMONSTRATED the 22mxz is a terrific surf boat. My retort (follow me here because I am quite sure your response will probably be facile and take a personal angle) was that few who have other boats rarely need to demonstrate that their boat is a terrific surf boat because it is often implied. Why should MXZ owners be required to demonstrate anything? Reread the initial thread. Those who detract from the boat's surf wave should demonstrate that it is NOT, rather than is.

Ha ha seriously laughing here. I just wanted to quote this ^^^ so everyone could have another look at it. Wow, masters, you must be proud.

[shawndoggy]

Thread summary:

Hey guys anybody dial a listed 22MXZ?

One guy says he has. One guy posts a pic of SG wave. Another posts a pic of a 20MXZ SG wave. But that was with someone manually diverting the spray. And now the guy who is saying he has dialed the listed wave is insulted to be asked to prove up his setup.

Sheesh, I hope this means spring is right around the corner.

Siada... what IS your setup? The OP is looking for a starting point for dialing a wave. Having ridden in his boat, he's going to take the time to get it just right, so your roadmap will probably be helpful. Nobody is trying to insult you, they are trying to get the benefit of the trail you've already blazed.

[nyryan2001]

the one Malibudude posted up from the event is amazing..... THATs the setup to be asking questions on.

[IXFE]

Thread summary:

Hey guys anybody dial a listed 22MXZ?

One guy says he has. One guy posts a pic of SG wave. Another posts a pic of a 20MXZ SG wave. But that was with someone manually diverting the spray. And now the guy who is saying he has dialed the listed wave is insulted to be asked to prove up his setup.

Sheesh, I hope this means spring is right around the corner.

Siada... what IS your setup? The OP is looking for a starting point for dialing a wave. Having ridden in his boat, he's going to take the time to get it just right, so your roadmap will probably be helpful. Nobody is trying to insult you, they are trying to get the benefit of the trail you've already blazed.

Agreed... this thread is a joke. It's like nobody knows how to read.

[IXFE]

the one Malibudude posted up from the event is amazing..... THATs the setup to be asking questions on.

Wow... seriously? That pic is a SG wave. The OP is pondering a 2012 MXZ (i.e. not SG equipped). How is that pic even relevant?

[ToeCutter]

I can hear someone getting their bags of milk ready...

[shawndoggy]

the one Malibudude posted up from the event is amazing..... THATs the setup to be asking questions on.

OP does. not. have. surf. gate.

Malibudude's pic is a surfgate boat.

[shawndoggy]

Wow... seriously? That pic is a SG wave. The OP is pondering a 2012 MXZ (i.e. not SG equipped). How is that pic even relevant?

"duh" comes to mind.

[saidainc]

Ha ha seriously laughing here. I just wanted to quote this ^^^ so everyone could have another look at it. Wow, masters, you must be proud.

Seriously laughing as well. Deflection. Look it up. Way to detract from your fault ridden initial response with a personal attack. You rank right up there, dont you?

Set up listed (photo will unimpress those who have already decided in their wisdom that MXZ's suck in any format):

750s PNP rear (right or left)

500 PNP mid locker

300 horseshoe + 150 cube bow

full wedge

full hardtanks

11.2

Edited March 31, 2014 by saidainc

[Tims]

Sweet shot of your wave!!

[nyryan2001]

That wave is taller than the trees and the mountains lol !

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[DocPhil]

Wow...this thread should be change to the "get your panties in a wad" thread. What the heck?

For what it is worth to the OP, I also tried to just list the boat (with many different combinations of weight) because the spray from the surf gate was so irritating.

I found that I could achieve a pretty comparable wave with the boat listed but I actually felt that the SG wave was better than the listed wave. I don't have any pictures of that nor am I sure about a 22 MXZ or a 24. However, I would imagine that the same is probably true for the 22 and the 24.

IMO, I just don't think the MXZ is a "terrific" surf boat. I think it is a good surf boat.

[justgary]

So a 24mxz surfs better than a 23lsv?

I'll let you decide what surfs better.

I'm just saying that in general, displacement is the key to creating a wake. Ballast adds displacement by pulling the hull down. A wedge adds displacement by pulling the hull down. A surf gate displaces some water behind it, but mostly causes the hull to slide sideways with yaw, forcing a list (roll). Both roll and yaw change the wake by making it nonuniform, effectively stealing water from one side to the other. I'm not convinced that the total volume of water in the wake changes substantially with a gate, it just changes location.

I can put a surf gate on my 14' fishing boat, but it's not going to make a much bigger wake because it lacks displacement. I can put six people in the boat, and it will have a bigger wake. If I can "dial" that wake until you are happy, it surfs better.

[Tims]

I'll let you decide what surfs better.

I'm just saying that in general, displacement is the key to creating a wake. Ballast adds displacement by pulling the hull down. A wedge adds displacement by pulling the hull down. A surf gate displaces some water behind it, but mostly causes the hull to slide sideways with yaw, forcing a list (roll). Both roll and yaw change the wake by making it nonuniform, effectively stealing water from one side to the other. I'm not convinced that the total volume of water in the wake changes substantially with a gate, it just changes location.

I can put a surf gate on my 14' fishing boat, but it's not going to make a much bigger wake because it lacks displacement. I can put six people in the boat, and it will have a bigger wake. If I can "dial" that wake until you are happy, it surfs better.

I understand the science behind hull displacement and wave size, but the difference between a 22 and 23 ft boat is not the key factor to all the bad surf press that the MXZ gets. Then you add the fact that the bottom running surface of these hulls look pretty much the same and it has me scratching my head as to why the MXZ is getting a bad rap. Perhaps the front pickle fork shape is causing some issue as mentioned earlier, making it more weight sensitive and harder to dial in? Best theory so far.

[justgary]

Tims -

It is possible that the bow portion of the MXZ is contributing something to the wake, and it may just be the extra weight. Maybe putting less ballast in the bow would perk it up. I'd be inclined to try slightly different speeds also, given the old "hull speed" theory using the square root of the waterline length. The change shouldn't be much, but it's certainly another thing to "dial" along with ballast placement.

I'm also thinking that a surf gate may yaw the shorter boat a little more than the longer boat, so maybe the answer is a longer surf gate to get more yaw.

[ToeCutter]

Tims -

It is possible that the bow portion of the MXZ is contributing something to the wake,

I'm wondering how the pickle fork would affect it as it's all above the waterline. Wouldn't the part below the waterline be just like any other bu?

[dDubya]

This is what I'm going for...or better

This is my now sold 2012 LSV23

Port, Center, Bow MLS Full

1100lbs sack in port locker

400lbs sack under port seat

100lbs lead under port/rear seat

200lbs lead in bow, port side front

wedge anout 2 clicks up

11mph- ish

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qdk08opttai51cm/Surf%20Wave1.jpg

[bunji169]

I say new LSV with Surfgate. You don't have to use it. But once you do, there's no going back.

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[bunji169]

Just keep an eye on it. I may steal your actuators. Lol

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Edited April 2, 2014 by bunji169

[Malibudude]

Wow... seriously? That pic is a SG wave. The OP is pondering a 2012 MXZ (i.e. not SG equipped). How is that pic even relevant?

First the boat length was never stated just an MXZ secondly, it is relevant imho as to what the boat "can" produce even with SG equipped. What wasn't stated was the size of MXZ specifically being referenced. I assumed with owning an LSV previously the OP was going larger, should have clarified that fact.

So a 24mxz surfs better than a 23lsv?

Hands down after surfing both boats in the same day the 24MXZ.

[Tims]

First the boat length was never stated just an MXZ secondly, it is relevant imho as to what the boat "can" produce even with SG equipped. What wasn't stated was the size of MXZ specifically being referenced. I assumed with owning an LSV previously the OP was going larger, should have clarified that fact.

Hands down after surfing both boats in the same day the 24MXZ.

That makes sense to me.