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Killer Ballast needed


Liquidroam

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Earlier this year I got good advice from many of you on a boat. I had an X-30 and move to an '04 Sunscape 21 LSV. I did this because my youngest is developing into a skier with me, while the other three live and breath boarding. I've had the boat on the water and am actually quite inpressed with it's ability to do both. It does heave the wedge, but balast is a must.

So in adding ballast, I want to be able to creat great wakes for wakeboarding, but also want to start wakesurfing. I would pefer hard tanks in the back but that is not a half to.

Here is where I am at currently. I have read a lot of the postings, here and other sites and even called barefoot interational. I was think Pro X sacks, and there fittings. Simer Blue Water pumps, 8.3GPM, Some where I thought I saw these can be had at Atlas supply for about $79. The rest is a mystery, wiring, Rocker switches, breakers.......... I have seen bits and peices on the insalation of ballast systems in different strings, but not the whole process in one.

I've got to tell you the thought of drilling holes below the waterline scares the _ _ _ _ out of me. :unsure: I need the right drill saw, and the right through hul fittings. These HAVE to seal.

Is there a single source for all of this that I can down load the PDF files or even purchase a small how to book? I thinking $1.95.

I would appreciatae all of your help, infact if there is an experience person near Rogers AR and wants to drink some beer and walk me through this, then I would do the same for someone else in the future.

Okay how ablout just the advice via the internet.

Thanks, Will Green

I

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Here is a link to me going through the process of removing my hard tanks and replacing them with ProX 750lb sacs hope it helps. I plan to update some more on it in the future.

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Here's a great write-up by Trace (he's also a member here) that helped me with ballast plans for my boat.

http://www.wakeworld.com/Articles/2001/BallastSystem1.asp

Yebetcha, I read over the link article, better than working. This is brilliant. Total cost will be under $900 for 1750 pounds14 in the back and 350 in the ski locker.

Some questions,

1. semi automatic, does this mean that I have to turn the pumps on and off, and that is all?

2. I may lead a shelter life, but I have never seen the incoming lake water for the engin cooling system used for the ballast fill. Is this pretty common?

3. I have access to 1/4, or 3/8 inch thick aluminium plate. Do I need to replace the partitions and brackets next to the engine?

4. Putting 700 pounds in the back lockers do I need to plate the floor for more strength?

Thanks to all for the help on this. Ken W. I still want to see your full instalation.

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Something else you may what to consider is the need for ballast in the bow. My boat is essentially the same as yours with the diamond hull. I found that I could use either the wedge or the rear ballast tanks, but not both at the same time at wakeboarding speed because of porpoising. We mostly used the wedge and the center ballast for boarding as that combo seemed to give a rampier wake that is preferred by my crew. About the only time we used the rear tanks was for wakesurfing filling just one side or the other. I could only use the wedge and the rear tanks together if I used either a bow bag or some VAB's.

I had the dealer install the rear hard tanks and the center ski locker bag with the control switches on the dash. I believe they charged around $1000 for the system which has worked great. I couldn't imagine messing with pumps and bags all of the time. That would not be enhancing the water time.

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Here's a great write-up by Trace (he's also a member here) that helped me with ballast plans for my boat.

http://www.wakeworld.com/Articles/2001/BallastSystem1.asp

Yebetcha, I read over the link article, better than working. This is brilliant. Total cost will be under $900 for 1750 pounds14 in the back and 350 in the ski locker.

Some questions,

1. semi automatic, does this mean that I have to turn the pumps on and off, and that is all?

2. I may lead a shelter life, but I have never seen the incoming lake water for the engin cooling system used for the ballast fill. Is this pretty common?

3. I have access to 1/4, or 3/8 inch thick aluminium plate. Do I need to replace the partitions and brackets next to the engine?

4. Putting 700 pounds in the back lockers do I need to plate the floor for more strength?

Thanks to all for the help on this. Ken W. I still want to see your full instalation.

1. Semi-automatic can mean a lot of things to a lot of people - I tend to think of a fully automated system as one that you flip a switch & it does everything for you. To my mind, if you've hard plumbed in a system but still have to close/open valves, etc, that's semi-automatic. YMMV on the definition, but I think that what all of us want is the closest thing to fully automatic that we can get. :)

2. It is relatively common, yes. Some people run the engine while filling, some don't. I'm actually in a situation where I'm going to be using the raw water intake for the fill on my system (it's a long story, but the size of the inlet that I need forced my hand - either do it this way or drill a gi-normous hole in the bottom of my boat), but I don't plan on ever running the engine when filling that part of the system. You can probably get away with it if you use slower pumps, but I'm using 3800gph pumps & I'd be seriously afraid of starving the engine. If you do this, make sure that you put a shutoff valve after you tee off of the raw water pickup, just for safety's sake.

3. It may be a good idea, but you may find that the Pro X sacks hold their shape so well that you may not need to.

4. Not on your boat, you'll be just fine.

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i wrote that article in 2001, so it's pretty dated now. i wrote it as more of a general overview and introduction to the concepts than a specific set of instructions. i don't mention venting at all, and that's very important unless you keep an eye on the sacks while filling. vents also burp air out as the sacks are filling. you have to make sure the vents are high enough above the sacks to fill them completely. most sacks now also come with 3+ ports in better locations, which is very helpful.

i've had my systems set up on the engine raw water line for several years on two different boats without problems, but i'm only running 2 Simers in parallel right now. this is about 16 gpm max, and the engine impeller pump pulls about 60 gpm, so i'm not too worried about overpowering it.

i'm now in the process of changing to several 1200 gph aerators (2 per sack), and will be cutting a dedicated thru-hull scupper for the new system for higher flow capacity and to help with maintaining prime. the fill pumps will be on a manifold in the bilge just after the pickup, and the drain pumps will be right on the bottom ports on the sacks.

i agree with wakegirl re automatic vs semiauto. fully auto would have things like auto pump shutoffs, presets, etc. that would be nice, but isn't really feasible for a DIY system.

my 96 VLX just has carpet curtain-like dividers next to the motor, and i run older coverless 550s in back without problems. your floor isn't a concern either. that 700 lbs is spread out evenly over a large area.

you will definitely need more weight in front. start at about 60/40 rear/front, and tune it from there.

honestly, i think the Rival system is the best design around, and i'd recommend it to anyone. i'm pretty much copying much of their design for my new system. if i didn't enjoy messing with this kind of stuff, i would just buy a Rival system. i won't end up saving much in the long run by piecing it together myself.

Edited by trace
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So I ended up ordering the 1500 lb ballast system from Wakeside. After talking to them I they told me that it come with the wiring harness already wrapped and ready to lay. No cutting or measuring. The entire system will be customized to my boat including Malibu matching switches for the dash. Just so happens that I have three ACC in a row with nothing on them.

One hole below the water line and three above. I plan on opening up the boat on Friday and doing the install on Sat, and Sun. I wonder how much beer one is allowed to drink AFTER I drill that one hole through the bottom.

I post how it went next week with a couple of pics.

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So I ended up ordering the 1500 lb ballast system from Wakeside. After talking to them I they told me that it come with the wiring harness already wrapped and ready to lay. No cutting or measuring. The entire system will be customized to my boat including Malibu matching switches for the dash. Just so happens that I have three ACC in a row with nothing on them.

One hole below the water line and three above. I plan on opening up the boat on Friday and doing the install on Sat, and Sun. I wonder how much beer one is allowed to drink AFTER I drill that one hole through the bottom.

I post how it went next week with a couple of pics.

Please take pictures (of the install) as you go.

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good choice, i've heard good things about their systems as well, but haven't seen one in person. i'd also be very interested in pics, schematics, etc.

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I will document the process with pics and post it when I am done. I am actually looking forward to this project.

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Something else you may what to consider is the need for ballast in the bow. My boat is essentially the same as yours with the diamond hull. I found that I could use either the wedge or the rear ballast tanks, but not both at the same time at wakeboarding speed because of porpoising. We mostly used the wedge and the center ballast for boarding as that combo seemed to give a rampier wake that is preferred by my crew. About the only time we used the rear tanks was for wakesurfing filling just one side or the other. I could only use the wedge and the rear tanks together if I used either a bow bag or some VAB's.

I had the dealer install the rear hard tanks and the center ski locker bag with the control switches on the dash. I believe they charged around $1000 for the system which has worked great. I couldn't imagine messing with pumps and bags all of the time. That would not be enhancing the water time.

This idea of not being able to use all 1500 lbs. of ballast and the wedge concerns me greatly. This is the first that I have heard of this. The system I ordered has 800 lbs. in back and 700 lbs. in the ski locker. Have you heard of anyone else havein this same problem? I have asked the question of Wakeside as well as Malibu and am waiting a response.

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Something else you may what to consider is the need for ballast in the bow. My boat is essentially the same as yours with the diamond hull. I found that I could use either the wedge or the rear ballast tanks, but not both at the same time at wakeboarding speed because of porpoising. We mostly used the wedge and the center ballast for boarding as that combo seemed to give a rampier wake that is preferred by my crew. About the only time we used the rear tanks was for wakesurfing filling just one side or the other. I could only use the wedge and the rear tanks together if I used either a bow bag or some VAB's.

I had the dealer install the rear hard tanks and the center ski locker bag with the control switches on the dash. I believe they charged around $1000 for the system which has worked great. I couldn't imagine messing with pumps and bags all of the time. That would not be enhancing the water time.

This idea of not being able to use all 1500 lbs. of ballast and the wedge concerns me greatly. This is the first that I have heard of this. The system I ordered has 800 lbs. in back and 700 lbs. in the ski locker. Have you heard of anyone else havein this same problem? I have asked the question of Wakeside as well as Malibu and am waiting a response.

I think what happens here is that all the weight in the back changes the boats attitude in the water and therefore the Wedge as well. Net is that the wedge is now in the wrong position to be effective. I bought some bags to put in the bow this year to help with that as I am adding weight to the back. I am pulling the hard tanks and replacing them with 750 lb sacs.

With the stock ballast (200 lbs per side in rear and 500 lbs mid, 0 up front), the wedge works great.

Edited by srud
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