New Truck Help

[nyryan2001]

I think 10k lbs is certainly pushing it for a 1/2 ton.... with that being said, using a weight distributing hitch, sway bar and electric brakes makes a HUGE difference in its ability to stop and control the load. 10-12k is certainly doable safely with a bigger 1/2 ton with a WDH and electric brakes.

Regular hitch tow like we do with our boats... I'd certainly conceed that 8-9k lbs is about the most I'd ever want to have back there.... and I really dont even want that much.

[mainekneeboarder]

It is the weight of the vehicle that is the problem. I have towed 10k lbs with a 1/2 ton and it felt like that trailer was towing the truck.

My 97 Chevy 1ton 2wd dually weighs 6080lbs with me in it, my 99 (classic) 1/2 ton GMC 4x4 weighs 5660 with me in it. The dually has a10,500 tow rating, the 1/2 ton has a 6,500lb tow rating, does 400lb truck weight really make that much difference in tow rating? I can tell you the 1ton tows way better then the 1/2 ton. I have towed the same trailer with a 2011 6,800lb 3/4 ton and the lighter 1 ton tows better! In my mind one of the biggest factors in handling is tires! My half ton has spent its whole life towing and is setup to tow, better brakes, better tires, air bags, extra fluid coolers and so on, and the guy that owned the 6,800lb 3/4 ton truck used to give me grief about it, we switched trucks one day towing and he couldn't believe how stable and safe my half ton felt towing. I'm by no means saying a 1/2 ton is better for towing then a 3/4 or 1ton, but if its set up properly isn't nearly as unsafe as some make it out to be!

I am just saying my 2500 weighs 10k lbs my 1500 weighed a lot less than that. It hada big tow package and it had about half of the brakes that are on the hd trucks. Between the much heavier hitch to the frame to the brakes and suspension a light duty truck is not comparable to a hd truck. 11k lbs with a light duty truck for any amount of distance would be considered dangerous by most people. 75% of tow ratings are generally what is considered safe

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, most 2500 trucks have a GVWR of around 9,500-10,000, truck typically weighs 6,500-7,000lbs, if your truck alone weighs 10,000lbs u would be over loaded with passengers! Most manufactures weigh ratings are wacky anyhow, the 97 1 ton 2wd has a tow rating of 10,500lb, 97 1 ton 4x4 rating is 10,000lb, adding front axle weight you would think would make towing safer? If the same truck is equipped with 4.56 gears the ratings go to 12,500lb (2wd), 12,000lb (4x4), does adding gear make the truck safer? It changes again with different engines. My 99 4x4 1500 has a GVWR of 6,200lbs, it weighs 5660lbs with me in it, put a 500lb ATV in it with gear and its supposedly over weighted? They are just giving a general guide to cover there buts! Honestly I think driver ability plays as much role as anything, and there is no guide for that!

Edited December 26, 2013 by mainekneeboarder

[nyryan2001]

In my mind one of the biggest factors in handling is tires!

I agree 100%. Since I always tend to be towing heavier loads and pushing everything to the max.... I have always ran the 10ply 3/4ton truck tires on my 1/2tons. right now I have the Michelen 90k mile rated LTs. I think they may have cost maybe 150-200$ over the comparable regular tires... but I am convinced they last longer and tow better under load. I get them at Sams for the lifeitme balance, rotate and hazard thing. there is less side to side movement, sidewal flex under load and less bounce on the LT tires. I can take them all the way up to 80PSI if I need to, and they are solid as a rock. Usually I split the difference at 55-60PSI MAY-OCT during season... so i dont have to air up and down every weekend and just leave them there. right now they are at 40psi while not towing.

[UofM_MXZ]

The 75% of max towing being safe isn't a statistic, it is common sense that you wouldn't want to push the max towing capacity on a vehicle not only for your safety but for the safety of everyone else on the road. Stopping always is the biggest factor when loaded up and when you are close to your max weight you are of course going to stop slower. Again, either way it is a personal choice. I feel comfortable with how I tow and I wouldn't feel that way if I did the same if I had a 1/2 ton.

[jaciche]

I never knew truck tires would be so relevant to towing quality. I was also wondering if the eco boost was cheaper than the 6.2. It would be absolutely ridiculous if it was more expensive. For my family, the biggest load we'll have is a vlx with the bed full of s***, other than that, we tow the sleds and utility trailers, so mileage is more important to us than tow rating. So for us, eco boosts and the standard v8's are what we'll be using in the future. I know that our 5.3 avalanche works somewhat hard to stay at 65 but we tow our boat for long distances 0-2 times a season, so it doesn't really bother us.

I only have 1 question: what "changes" did gm make to their 5.3 for 2014 and why are they advertising better mileage than an eco boost? The best I've gotten in the truck was 21 driving 70 with just me and my friend in the truck.

Sorry for hijacking btw

[mainekneeboarder]

The 75% of max towing being safe isn't a statistic, it is common sense that you wouldn't want to push the max towing capacity on a vehicle not only for your safety but for the safety of everyone else on the road. Stopping always is the biggest factor when loaded up and when you are close to your max weight you are of course going to stop slower. Again, either way it is a personal choice. I feel comfortable with how I tow and I wouldn't feel that way if I did the same if I had a 1/2 ton.

This statement alone bothers me, There are so many more factors that need to be considered when towing, and manufacture tow ratings is at the low end of the list, and common sense at the top. Alot of same model trucks come with different size brakes on them, and different tires, that is never mentioned in tow ratings? The tow rating on a 97 1 ton 4x4 5.7 eng. 4.10 gear Chevy is 7,000lbs, a guy that owns one of those trucks is suppose to stay under 75% of that rating when the same truck equipped with a 7.4 eng. 4.10 gear has a tow rating of 10,000lbs? Oh and the Diesel for that year/model that everyone on here seems to like to boast about needing to tow with is rated at 7,500lbs? Common sense tells me there just isn't much safety factored into the manufactures tow ratings, and are more to cover their buts if something happens in the drive train. I dont think they are stated for safety reasons, if they were brake sizes and tires that come on the trucks I would think would be mentioned in the ratings. If I were to stay under the 75% rule you mention for my GVWR I couldn't drive my 1/2 ton empty because it would be unsafe for me and others? You say your truck alone weighs 10,000lbs, most likly way over the 75% of its GVWR?

Again, either way it is a personal choice. I feel comfortable with how I tow and I wouldn't feel that way if I did the same if I had a 1/2 ton.

By all means if you want a heavier truck to tow with, can afford it, and can put up with the ride quality then great for you! Its all about feeling safe with what you drive, the exact reason me and my buddy switched trucks one day towing, he had me convinced his truck was way superior to mine and I was towing unsafely, we ended up changing his way of thinking instead of mine because my truck felt so under control towing to him with what he thought was grossly over loaded! He literally was trying to get me not to tow with that truck, at all, for months, saying how unsafe it was to tow with it, and what would happen "IF". He drove mine and got out with a total different attitude, he got out saying "I'm not real sure I would change much, that feels way safer then I thought it would, I thought the trailer would be driving the truck, I wouldn't want to go jerking the wheel around, but it feels like you have control of it"!! In reality it was over loaded just not nearly as bad as he thought, the trailer got heavier and I dont tow with that truck as much. Don't get me wrong I do believe bigger loads need bigger trucks, I just dont believe its as big a problem as some make it to be if using a little common sense! I don't like to tow just the boat with the 1ton because it rides so stiff it feels as thou its beating the boat/trailer to death.

Edited December 26, 2013 by mainekneeboarder

[UofM_MXZ]

75% of towing capacity not vehicle weight

[mainekneeboarder]

GVWR is stated by the same people that state the tow rating, I was assuming your view was the same on both. GVWR = Max "Gross vehicle weight rating" including gear/cargo, not vehicle weight.

[Baddog]

This questions if fully based on "I heard from someone, somewhere". I'll wade in anyway: I heard that the biggest factor in a vehicle's tow rating is its ability to stop, i.e. bigger brakes = higher towing capacity.

True? Flase? Or Baddog sold down the river again?

[mainekneeboarder]

This questions if fully based on "I heard from someone, somewhere". I'll wade in anyway: I heard that the biggest factor in a vehicle's tow rating is its ability to stop, i.e. bigger brakes = higher towing capacity.

True? Flase? Or Baddog sold down the river again?

You would think this to be true, however all the tow ratings I have seen posted appear to be directly related to engine, transmission, or rear gear, any of these get bigger/stronger and tow ratings go up. They never mention brakes or tires in tow ratings, and some same model/year trucks often have different size brakes or come with different types of tires.

P.S. most of my screen as Baddog as last poster again,

[Sixball]

It all about the package. Trailer, tires on both veh.& trailer. Brakes, engine, trans, wheel base, cooling & electrical. Well we ran the NHRA circuit we pulled a triple axle 32' car haller that went between 71/2 - 10 tones depending on how far and how long and impotence of the race we were going to.

Pulled with a modified E-350 460 with 429 PI heads, cam intake and carb. Built C6 trans and converter. Also had a custom axle & 4:11 gears, also the load equalizing hitch. 7 - 9 MPG as long as we ran in the 70mph range. also got down into 4.5 MPG but I won't tell you at what speed. It pulled very well and no white knuckles.

[Baddog]

You would think this to be true, however all the tow ratings I have seen posted appear to be directly related to engine, transmission, or rear gear, any of these get bigger/stronger and tow ratings go up. They never mention brakes or tires in tow ratings, and some same model/year trucks often have different size brakes or come with different types of tires.

P.S. most of my screen as Baddog as last poster again,

What can I say. I'm a bit bored and I apparently like to have the last word, plus I must know everything. My kids tell me that all the time.

[Soon2BV]

Here are two pretty good articles. The first one explains some of what MFG's do to determine and market their tow ratings and references an SAE standard being developed. The second one states that only Toyota has adopted the standard for the 2013 models.

Bottom line from the article, and i would agree as someone who used to work for GM, is that engineers factor in frame, hitch, engine, transmission and gearing to determine the ratings. If you look at the towing guides, you can see that the vehicle ratings increase with engine HP & gearing and for the highest ratings you usually also need a HD transmission and oil cooler and radiator. Those don't improve the ability to get the load moving, but they do help you keep it moving without vehicle damage.

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/consumer/163_0910_truck_towing_capacity/viewall.html

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/no-go-for-standardized-tow-ratings.html

[Sixball]

Also another factor. you can bet A 10% fudge. No company is going to put its max numbers out. They are dealing with an unknown! People.

[3sport]

Also another factor.  you can bet A 10%  fudge. No company is going to put its max numbers out. They are dealing with an unknown!   People.

I would think truck manufacturers would err on the side of caution to avoid liability issues - I.e. If rated to tow 10,000 lbs, it can actually probably do something greater than that. If they overstate and there are accidents, liability could be huge.

[Baddog]

I would think truck manufacturers would err on the side of caution to avoid liability issues - I.e. If rated to tow 10,000 lbs, it can actually probably do something greater than that. If they overstate and there are accidents, liability could be huge.

Too many lswyers out there to do it any other way.

[nyryan2001]

This questions if fully based on "I heard from someone, somewhere". I'll wade in anyway: I heard that the biggest factor in a vehicle's tow rating is its ability to stop, i.e. bigger brakes = higher towing capacity.

True? Flase? Or Baddog sold down the river again?

Biggest "safe tow" factors IMO:

1. Brakes- stopping

2. Suspension, frame and hitch - stability

3. Tires

4. Engine and tranny

[justgary]

Also another factor. you can bet A 10% fudge. No company is going to put its max numbers out. They are dealing with an unknown! People.

The fudge is probably greater than 10%, because they want to be able to point the finger back to you if you are close to the limit. I have heard anecdotal stories from Ford engineers that they don't just do the numbers and call it good enough. They actually tow the max weight up I-70 through the Eisenhower Tunnel a few times during the summer to make sure the cooling and towing capacity are what they say it is. It's not just a commercial advertisement.

But if you want to see real liability, get in an accident while towing over the capacity stated on the vehicle manufacturer's rating sticker on your vehicle. Your insurance may not help you if they can prove you did it intentionally. In FL, the FLDOT will pull you over and weigh you on the spot if your rig looks like they could get some cash out of you. They are normally looking for commercial road and fuel tax violations, but they can pull any big load over just for the sport.

Lucky for me, I don't have anything that exceeds my F150's capacity. The camper is about 75%, but the WDH makes it tow like a champ.

Regards,

- Just Gary

[mainekneeboarder]

Very good info in the last 4-5 post. Those articles are a good read!

Biggest "safe tow" factors IMO:

1. Brakes- stopping

2. Suspension, frame and hitch - stability

3. Tires

4. Engine and tranny

The first three really need to be lumped together I think, excellent brakes wont do much good with worn out hard as a rock tires, Great suspension on soft sidewall tires is going to still feel all mushy and uncontrollable, brand new high quality tires with small weak brakes still isn't going to be very good, high quality tires with the back bumper dragging on the ground and the front 3ft off the ground isn't going to work, (well i guess it will work, we've all seen it)!! I think tires may even be more important then Suspension, and alot of people really under estimate the difference in a good quality tire compared to a no name brand cheapy. I really think this is where alot of people get the impression 1/2 ton trucks are unsafe when towing, and believe a huge truck is absolutely needed to tow a 4000-7000lb boat, put a cheap "P metric" rated tire on a 3/4 ton truck and its going to feel like a mushy/squerlly hard to handle turd.

Tow ratings on trucks is in my opinion is a guide line, and other aspects of towing really need alot more attention then tow ratings alone! Living here in redneck Downeast Maine I have seen plenty of unbelievable tow situations, and done plenty wrong my self. I used to run a rear engine dragster for a guy and once in a while we would take my truck instead of his camper. The trailer loaded was probable around or a bit over the tow limit of the truck but I learned if you backed the dragster in the trailer it towed great, drive it in and it was a nightmare. He rode with me once and didn't want to take the time to turn the thing around, needless to say it was the longest 5 hour, 3.5 hour trip of our lives, he decided taking the time to turn it around the next time was just fine. Even when we took his camper the trailer would move the camper around a little when a truck passed us on the highway, but it never bothered him enough to take the time to do something about it. Again I'm not saying I don't believe in bigger trucks, but I do believe EVERY truck/trailer needs to be setup properly and its much more then just going to buy a new truck with a higher tow rating!

[Sixball]

Before we built the van we had a F-350 that did get totaled. A gal pulled out in front of us. Ky. cop coming the other way saw the whole thing. Insurance was not a problem no one even looked at the trailer weight. Turned in the police report and two weeks all was settled.

The trailer was good to go but the hitch pushed forward and sucked the frame of the truck in about 8". The front of the truck was pushed in some but not much. She was driving an ElCamino the truck front end was over the frame rail of the ElCamino so it crushed up to the rear view mirror. Its the only crash I can truly say she was lucky she did not have a safety belt on. She would have been crushed. She ended up under the dash in the passenger side. We had to look in the veh twice to find her. She lived with only bad leg problems.

[Pnwrider]

I just got home from test driving an f150 ecoboost and a tundra crewmax limited trd. On paper I thought I was gonna love the f150. I ended up liking the tundra better overall. It had less road noise, brakes felt better, drove better, etc. I think the f150 fx4 looks better and after negotiating is going to be about 2-3k less expensive. I'm curious as to what mpg I can expect when not towing with the tundra. My biggest problem with the tundra is the tiny 26 gallon tank. I also am not a huge fan of the dash layout. Gonna see which one the wife drives better and go from there.

[Baddog]

I just got home from test driving an f150 ecoboost and a tundra crewmax limited trd. On paper I thought I was gonna love the f150. I ended up liking the tundra better overall. It had less road noise, brakes felt better, drove better, etc. I think the f150 fx4 looks better and after negotiating is going to be about 2-3k less expensive. I'm curious as to what mpg I can expect when not towing with the tundra. My biggest problem with the tundra is the tiny 26 gallon tank. I also am not a huge fan of the dash layout. Gonna see which one the wife drives better and go from there.

Regardless of the techincals and your opinion, life is always better with the wife's opinion prominently paid attention to.

[Wakesetter67]

Great thread been looking for a few years now, I had a 2012 Titan as of today, it really pulled my VLX great plenty of power, but horrible Fuel mileage on all spectrum's, While towing mostly Freeway Flat, about 8 or 9 MPG seemed better over 65MPH, But what kills me was the 11 to 12 maybe without the boat, And on a good day 14 to 15 light foot on freeway, I know quite a few people with the F150 Eco boost, And one guy in particular, who is one hell of a Ford Mechanic, When he swore by this F150 eco boost that meant a lot, And his boat is quite a bit bigger then mine, I demoed one over the weekend, They let me take it home a drive it, Absolutely love this truck, Aver in town with just a little freeway 19.8 MPG and just freeway 22.9 ave, Did not get a chance to pull but I was not worried, Did lots of research on that, Even if I get 13 MPH with it pulling would be a big upgrade to the Titan, Plus I got rid of 2 vehicles and 1 Insurance payment for this truck, I get a fuel allowance from work so I used some of the cash to buy a Kia Rio... ( Ya I know lost whatever Manhood I had driving that car, ) So waited for the most rebates and I have a good friend who is a sales manager and scored this baby!!! This is the time of year to deal!!

Edited December 30, 2013 by Wakesetter67

[Bawshogg]

Welcome to America Vince! Nice score! I know you will be happy with it. Congrats!

[Pnwrider]

Great thread been looking for a few years now, I had a 2012 Titan as of today, it really pulled my VLX great plenty of power, but horrible Fuel mileage on all spectrum's, While towing mostly Freeway Flat, about 8 or 9 MPG seemed better over 65MPH, But what kills me was the 11 to 12 maybe without the boat, And on a good day 14 to 15 light foot on freeway, I know quite a few people with the F150 Eco boost, And one guy in particular, who is one hell of a Ford Mechanic, When he swore by this F150 eco boost that meant a lot, And his boat is quite a bit bigger then mine, I demoed one over the weekend, They let me take it home a drive it, Absolutely love this truck, Aver in town with just a little freeway 19.8 MPG and just freeway 22.9 ave, Did not get a chance to pull but I was not worried, Did lots of research on that, Even if I get 13 MPH with it pulling would be a big upgrade to the Titan, Plus I got rid of 2 vehicles and 1 Insurance payment for this truck, I get a fuel allowance from work so I used some of the cash to buy a Kia Rio... ( Ya I know lost whatever Manhood I had driving that car, ) So waited for the most rebates and I have a good friend who is a sales manager and scored this baby!!! This is the time of year to deal!!

Congrats! Can I ask what you paid? Thinking about pulling the trigger on one this week. Not sure if I'm getting a great deal or not. The dealer is right around 40k on a new fx4 ecoboost. Feel free to pm me if necessary.