Help Me Get My Dumb Boat Running - Could Be a Prize

[Baddog]

To check ECM, take ECM out of another boat. Same year, same motor and swap to your boat. Really easy. Maybe a crew member can help you out or your local boat storage facility

I must store in a really crappy place -- no other Malibus to use as as source of research materials.

[vlong]

To swap the ECM, is it just plug and go or does the ECM or timing have to be programed or set?

Plug and play, the timing is set after the ECM finds top dead of #1 cylinder. That's why you don't have to time the motor, the ECM does it everytime you crank over your boat,as long as its close. That's why your motor never fires on the first few rotations. You have to be sure its the correct ECM for your boat. Sometimes year and model don't matter, they have used different set ups/programs for the ECM during the same year. The ECM should have what "MEFI" it is on a sticker on the backside, mine was MEFI-4. Match that if you try one.

[Baddog]

Can you return the replacement ECM if it proves not to be the cause, or are you stuck with the $1,500 bill regardless?

[vlong]

Can you return the replacement ECM if it proves not to be the cause, or are you stuck with the $1,500 bill regardless?

You're stuck with it.

[skyskier]

This thread is turning into a real nail biter!

[Baddog]

I am still hoping to figure this out myself, with help from here and perhaps Echelon mike, but I also requested a service time slot from the dealer. They are 100 boats deep into winterizations so he says maybe he can look at it in January or February. Wow, 100 boats deep?? I am glad that through this site I have gained the requisite knowledge (and then some) to do my own winterizing. Another great reason to support . . . . .

[SmoothWaterMan]

But.... had you taken it in during the summer when your issues started, it would have been done and you'd have no frustrations for the rest of the year.

Just saying - Sometimes it's best to do what you do best, and let others do what they do best.

Peter

[Baddog]

But.... had you taken it in during the summer when your issues started, it would have been done and you'd have no frustrations for the rest of the year.

Just saying - Sometimes it's best to do what you do best, and let others do what they do best.

Peter

Good point Peter and I agree, however it didn't start going all woozy on me until the last couple of times out, fortunately.

[Falko]

Can you give us a list of what you've done so far?

I don't think it is an injector problem, unless the power to them has failed. One or even two failed injectors and it would still try to run.

You say you have spark, but it is difficult to gauge how much. Have you checked the position of the dist cap to ensure the timing is correct?

Change the spark plugs.

Pull the fuel supply line from the injector line and cycle the pump dumping gas into a bottle. Be sure that gas isn't heavily water laden. You may have been getting some water in the tank which would explain the slow demise of operation. That or pull a plug after you try to start, and if it is wet, take it away from the boat and hold a lighter under it to see if that gas will ignite.

[Baddog]

Falko,

To sumarize what I have done so far:

Fuel pump runs up every time I attempt to start.

It has fuel pressure, based solely on it squirts when I push the Schrader valve. I do not have a fuel pressure gauge to tell how much pressure, but it all sounds normal. I also have wet plugs after cranking with no-start.

I have checked spark by pulling a plug at a time, reinserting and setting it on a metal part of the engine, then cranking to see actual spark I have only been able to check the front two on each side by myself. I have spark sometimes but not always and not on all of those four plugs.

I have changed the cap, rotor and ignition module to no avail.

Both fuel filters are new in the past three weeks.

I tried spraying starter fluid down the throttle body, to no avail

When I crank it, there is not even an attempt to fire even on one cylinder.

[WakeGirl]

Baddog,

I think you said that it just started doing this out of the blue, right? So the day that this started happening, how long had it been prior to that that you'd had it out & running as normal? A timeline of events from when it was running normal to when it wasn't.

Here's the reason for my question: some people are pointing to the possibility of bad gas, but I have a really hard time believing that that could be it if you had been out & running it just fine maybe a week prior to this event. Also, you're not getting anything at all when you crank it, no sputtering or trying to fire at all, so that just doesn't sound like a fuel quality problem to me. BICBW of course.

[Levi900RR]

This is ignition for sure... start at the plugs and work backwards.

^^

[Michigan boarder]

I have spark sometimes but not always and not on all of those four plugs.

Gotta be ignition then.

Also, you're not getting anything at all when you crank it, no sputtering or trying to fire at all, so that just doesn't sound like a fuel quality problem to me.

I was thinking the same. If it's fuel it will at least TRY to fire.

And, when you spray starting fluid down and nothing happens...that's ignition.

[Falko]

I thought he mentioned it was running rough, didn't just up and quit one time out. I've seen people get water in the fuel and it separates out and the pick up to the pump grabs almost straight water. It sounds odd, but it can happen if you get a really crappy tank of fuel. I'm considering installing a fuel filter/separator this winter due to the ethanol issues people experience.

But given he's tried the starter fluid and it didn't work, I am not sure that is an issue, unless the plugs were really wet.

[tvano]

I thought he mentioned it was running rough, didn't just up and quit one time out. I've seen people get water in the fuel and it separates out and the pick up to the pump grabs almost straight water. It sounds odd, but it can happen if you get a really crappy tank of fuel. I'm considering installing a fuel filter/separator this winter due to the ethanol issues people experience.

But given he's tried the starter fluid and it didn't work, I am not sure that is an issue, unless the plugs were really wet.

i've heard that you don't want to add fuel/water separator to an injected engine.

i'll pipe in again if i remember just what the reasoning is.

[vlong]

Man! So what are you going to try next? This is like reading a suspense novel without knowing how many books are involved! LOL skyskier is right, this is a real nail biter. I am sticking with the ECM because it seems like the only thing you have not tried and it did what mine did before it died on me. Did you replace the entire distributor?

Edited October 24, 2013 by vlong

[WakeGirl]

So we need to find a member with a '98 Monsoon in the Cincy area that can help a brother out.

[martinarcher]

Find the + side of your coil. With the ignition switch on check the voltage on that post. It should be ~12 volts. If good here get a 12 volt test light and connect it to the + side of the battery........touch the tip of the test light to the - side of the coil. Have a friend crank the engine. The test light should flash. If you get a flash here there is something wrong with in the coil or the way it is connected or it's circuitry (a flash here is normal and indicates that you ignition module is working). If you don't have 12 volts on the + side of the coil you need to trace back to the voltage source and troubleshoot. If all checks above are good.....disconnect the coil spark cable from the distributor and place near (1/2" away) from any metal on the engine. Crank the engine over. If you get spark then your spark is grounding out inside the distributor through an abnormal path.

Good post. You should have 12V in the run AND start key positions. If it's only there in run you'll never get started or try to do so. Typically you'll have the negative side of the coil grounded, and two wires to the positive side of the coil....one for start and one for run.

[Walter]

Does your distributor have an aluminum housing or is it plastic? Did you ever get a pic

[skurfer]

It does sound like a relay or ECM. Have you swapped relay, yet?

ECM is fairly easy swap if you can find a loaner

[nuttyskier2002]

Baddog, where is your boat and what test equipment do you have? DVM, 12V test light, timing light? Let me know. I want to talk you through troubleshooting this thing! My cell 480-316-7429. You can call me tomorrow after 2 PM Pac time.

[Baddog]

Baddog,

I think you said that it just started doing this out of the blue, right? So the day that this started happening, how long had it been prior to that that you'd had it out & running as normal? A timeline of events from when it was running normal to when it wasn't.

Here's the reason for my question: some people are pointing to the possibility of bad gas, but I have a really hard time believing that that could be it if you had been out & running it just fine maybe a week prior to this event. Also, you're not getting anything at all when you crank it, no sputtering or trying to fire at all, so that just doesn't sound like a fuel quality problem to me. BICBW of course.

I got a late start to the season this year becasue of the really lousy spring we had with so many heavy rain days, which always fills my lake with titanic type submerged stuff. However, once I got out, it started and ran just fine like it always has. Two times before it would not start at all, it had been sitting for two weeks and started hard (probably 3 times the normal cranking time required) but it did start. Once started it ran very rough like it was missing on a couple of cylinders. After about 2-3 minutes it settled down and ran smoothly, although twice when pulling a skier it momentaruly balked at speed, then ran fine the rest of the outing.

The second to last time it actually started was the next weekend and it took 3-4 times the normal cranking time. but started, ran rough for only about a minute, then was fine the rest of the outing.

The last time "out" it just would not start. It cranked a long time would try to fire on a couple of cyclinders, then not, then maybe, then do a little backfire thingy (with copious throttle thrown in), then just nothing and I had to give up. Fortunately there was only one other boat that even showed up at the ramp (3 positions wide) so I wasn't blocking anyone as I definitley did NOT want to be one of those kind of boaters.

The rest of my attempts to start have been at its parking spot after trying various things from here.

[Baddog]

I appreciate all of the responses on this frustrating issue, especially because the dealer can't really get to it until February.

My distriubutor has not moved from its standard position. It is match marked and tight to the engine.

Distributor plate is aluminum, not plastic. I have replaced the ingition module on the distributor plate.

Echelon Mike has offered to help, we just need to connect and find a time to meet.

Nutty, I will try to call you after 2 p.m. PDT

My boat is at a storage place 10 miles from my house.

I do have a DVM, but will have to dig into the moving boxes to find my 12V test light and the timing light may never be found.

The coil has two 2-pronged plugs and the post. Which prong would I connect the test light to?

[Walter]

Find someone that has an oscilloscope and knows how to use it and check the pickup coil in the distributor, it puts out an AC sine wave that the computer senses and tells the module when to fire the coil. It has a 2 wire connector that plugs into the module under the rotor, I think they are white and green, the pickup coil is a permanent magnet and are bad about dropping signal as they age, they will crack at the mounting rivets and moisture causes them to rust pretty bad. I'd upload a pic but the forum isn't allowing from tapatalk yet. Your ignition system starts here, test it unplugged, it generates it's own voltage signal. If you can't figure out how any good mechanic should be able to test it with a sun scope or vantage graphing meter.

[vette-ski]

I don't think it is an injector problem, unless the power to them has failed. One or even two failed injectors and it would still try to run.

This isn't necessarily true but generally. I didn't post this up before because I don't really think it applies in this case, but I did have experience with an older model GM 2.8L. It drove me nuts for a long time. It would just die on you while driving down the road. It usually re-started, but sometimes didn't. Let it sit, then it would start again. It had a distributorless ignition, so that's why I'm not sure it would apply here. But what it ended up being was a bad fuel injector, shorting out on the electric side and killing the ignition. Once this was found, you could unplug this injector when it was dead and it would start and run on 5 cylinders just fine (albeit rough). Plug the bad injector in and it was dead again. New injector fixed it....after pretty much replacing all other components of the ignition system.

Its a long shot, but if you want to try EVERYTHING, you could try unplugging injectors one at a time or in groups of 2 to speed it up. But I really don't think this is it.