Help Me Get My Dumb Boat Running - Could Be a Prize

[Falko]

I'd be more interested to see if you have any pressure. I'd think anything between 30 and 60psi would make it run.

I'm not sure on the resistance. But again, you don't want it open, and you don't want no resistance.

Ignition pack is one of those last resort things, unless you have the means to test it. When I lost mine, I figured it was the only thing left, and replaced it.

If you aren't getting spark on the plug, see if you are getting 12V to the coil. If you are getting 12V to the coil, remove the wires and test the resistance. Another thing you can do, if you have a testing light, is run that across the coil feed. You can see them dim on ignition power break during cranking, higher rpms not so much. Most standard meters it is difficult to see this break.

I apologize, but my form of testing parts doesn't usually involve much of exact numbers, just systematically testing back through the system to see if something doesn't look right.

[Baddog]

I'd be more interested to see if you have any pressure. I'd think anything between 30 and 60psi would make it run.

I'm not sure on the resistance. But again, you don't want it open, and you don't want no resistance.

Ignition pack is one of those last resort things, unless you have the means to test it. When I lost mine, I figured it was the only thing left, and replaced it.

If you aren't getting spark on the plug, see if you are getting 12V to the coil. If you are getting 12V to the coil, remove the wires and test the resistance. Another thing you can do, if you have a testing light, is run that across the coil feed. You can see them dim on ignition power break during cranking, higher rpms not so much. Most standard meters it is difficult to see this break.

I apologize, but my form of testing parts doesn't usually involve much of exact numbers, just systematically testing back through the system to see if something doesn't look right.

How and where do I check the fuel pressure?

[Bozboat]

Borrow a fuel pressure gauge from your local auto parts store. Locate the "schrader valve" on the fuel line between the high pressure filter and the injectors, it looks like a tire stem mounted in the metal fuel line. Screw the fuel gauge in, test pressure at key on, if it would start test at idle and at WOT.

There is a chart on bakes web site that tells you what the pressure should be.

If not EFI, ignore the above.

[Baddog]

Borrow a fuel pressure gauge from your local auto parts store. Locate the "schrader valve" on the fuel line between the high pressure filter and the injectors, it looks like a tire stem mounted in the metal fuel line. Screw the fuel gauge in, test pressure at key on, if it would start test at idle and at WOT.

There is a chart on bakes web site that tells you what the pressure should be.

If not EFI, ignore the above.

Can you just use a tire pressure guage?

[Falko]

that would be a bad idea. tire gauge will not screw on and you'll likely spray gas everywhere. And you could get gas into the gauge which might make it into a tire, I don't know if that would hurt anything. But autozone or Oreilley's should have a gauge you could use.

[Baddog]

that would be a bad idea. tire gauge will not screw on and you'll likely spray gas everywhere. And you could get gas into the gauge which might make it into a tire, I don't know if that would hurt anything. But autozone or Oreilley's should have a gauge you could use.

O'Reilly owes me, so I'll stop there on the way to the boat. Do you know where precisely the Schrader valve is on a boat with a correct facing engine?

[shawndoggy]

should be on the driver's side. Follow the output from the fuel pump. It's pretty much the only schrader valve....

But hey while you are there, buy a can of starter fluid and spray that down the intake and see if she will fire. If it won't, that's also indicative of it being spark not fuel. Also pull plugs and see if they are wet (another indication your fuel is arriving where it's supposed to but isn't being burned).

The fact that you hear the pump but it won't fire at all really leads me to believe it's a spark issue. Fuel pump issues seem to be more intermittent, usually.

But I'm just an interwebs mechanic.

Edited October 15, 2013 by shawndoggy

[wienrdog]

Should be passenger side near the stern & facing towards the inside of the rails. You'll have to take off the engine shroud to see it. On the '01, I needed to remove the lower shroud to see it.

[Levi900RR]

I have 1 dollar on it being in the ignition circuit.

I'm going to say a faulty coil wire.

[Falko]

I'd have to go with the ignition module in the distributor.

[Baddog]

Should be passenger side near the stern & facing towards the inside of the rails. You'll have to take off the engine shroud to see it. On the '01, I needed to remove the lower shroud to see it.

What shroud, the plastic below the spark arrestor?

[brad72]

What shroud, the plastic below the spark arrestor?

Yes . Remove the spark arrestor then the cover underneath. On my 02 monsoon the schrader valve is on the drivers side rail facing inwards towards the thermostat. You will see the tire cap so easy to find.

Have you confirmed you have a spark yet? You can either remove a spark plug, put the lead back onto it, ground the plug end back onto the block and crank the motor. You should see a spark jump the plug gap. Alternatively remove the plug lead a stick an allen key the same diameter as spark plug top electrical connection into the plug lead it so it makes a connection inside then hold said allen key with pliers and position it about 1/4" from bare metal on the block then crank the motor. Again you should see a spark jump the gap. Just choose a plug that enables you to hold it and turn the ignition key easily.

[Baddog]

Arrgghh!!!

Went out to the boat tonight to try some of this stuff to no avail

- Jumpered the kill switch, I have gauages and the fuel pump spools up

- I have spark and it looks strong

- Checked for fuel at the Schrader valve, didn't have a fuel pressure guage but it defintiely flows when the pin is depressed

- I appear to be getting fuel to the cylinders as the plug vame out wet after cranking at WOT

- Checked all the fuses under the lower shroud and all are fine

Now what????

[Falko]

ANY chance you screwed up the dist cap cover when you replaced it?

All I can think of is compression and timing being left.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Falko

[Baddog]

ANY chance you screwed up the dist cap cover when you replaced it?

All I can think of is compression and timing being left.

I put the old one back on. Still no startie.

[tvano]

i'm going to take the chance of irritating you by dropping back to basics.

shawndoggy suggested the no-start faq in post #2.

did you run down that list?

[electricjohn]

Replace your EFI relay. The injectors won't work if it is bad.

[brad72]

Perhaps sit in the boat with a glass or two of Johnny blue and the answer will present itself.

[sledandski]

I have a lot more experience working on older indmar engines but had a very very similar experience with an Oldsmobile that had a 3800 engine in it. Turned out to be the MAP sensor. Once I unplugged the sensor the engine ran and once I put a new one in the check engine light turned off. Here is a link to bakes for what the MAP sensor looks like.

http://www.bakesonline.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=Map

I'm not sure if you can test this with an ohm meter or not. I would try disconnecting it and see what happens.

Best of luck!!!

Edited October 16, 2013 by sledandski

[Michigan boarder]

Remove coil wire (just to be safe). Pull plug from #1 cylinder. Put a screwdriver in the opening. Rotate crank by hand (do NOT use starter) until that screwdriver comes up to the top and wants to go down again. At that point your timing mark should be at Top Dead Center. If not, it may be 180 degrees, and on the exhaust stroke. If that is the case then rotate it the crank by hand again until the piston comes to the top again. Now the timing mark should be at TDC. Follow the #1 plug wire back to the distributor cap, and note it's location. Remove the cap. The rotor should be at the #1 cylinder spot on the cap.

You could then do the same for each cylinder to make sure your plug wires are all in the right positions.

Did you try the starting fluid? I've had plugs that I thought looked wet, but actually were not wet enough to fire. Spray some starting fluid and crank it and you'll know right away. If it doesn't fire, no biggie, that stuff evaporates quickly.

[Falko]

I put the old one back on. Still no startie.

If you went one wire position off though, you are not going to start. The wires have to go back in the exact same rotation and spot on the distributor. Some people get them slightly twisted and they are one off.

[vette-ski]

To get this thing to run you need fuel, air, and spark, in the right ratios and timing. You know you have fuel to the rail. But you don't know for certain they are getting past the injectors. Your plugs being wet are a good sign. I've done this before, but I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. You can pop the fuel rails out of the intake and verify they are spraying when you crank it. Save this for a last resort or a skilled mechanic.

You verified spark.....with the actual plugs or something else in the wires? I have had fuel fouled plugs before that won't spark, or have very weak spark. I'd check more than one cylinder. But it takes a lot of un-burned fuel to ruin plugs.

Air should be obvious, as long as there's nothing in the flame arrestor.

For timing, Michigan boarder layed out the process to check plug wires. In short, your number one wire should be very close to the rotor when the engine is at TDC of the compression stroke. As noted, if it's 180 degrees off it will look right but not run. Then follow your firing order around the cap in the direction of the rotor. I know you think you got them all on right, but at this point you need to step back and double check everything. Double check the distributor and make sure it is tight and won't spin.

I can't see a faulty sensor causing a no start. It may cause poor running conditions, but I can't see it keeping it from starting at all. Plus the sensor itself cannot stop engine operation. It would have to either shut down fuel, air, or spark via the ecm. Those are the basics. If you know you have air and spark, I would make sure the fuel pressure you see on the rails is in fact getting into the cylinders.

[Levi900RR]

Do I owe anyone a dollar yet?

[Baddog]

Thanks all so far, but so far, no joy.

I did run through the No-start FAQ. Very helpful. The only things on the list that I am not certain about is the EFI relay and the cannon plug. Where is the relay physically located? I will have to check the cannon plug next time at the boat.

I was extremely careful when changing the cap and even referred back to an original drawing I made the first time I changed it and the wires are all in the correct place. I only checked spark on one plug, I can check all of them, but don't suspect this as the culprit.

I will also check the MAP sensor.

I will not sit on the boat and drink Johnny Blue as I wil need that money if I have to take it in to the dealer.

Levi, I do not think you owe any dollars just yet.

I will also try starter fluid. Last time I just poured various quantities of gas in the TB.

[tvano]

based on the mefi wiring diagram:

the 3 relays are ign, starter and fuel pump.

ecm is fused but there is not a relay in the circuit.

my rig has these 3 relays mounted on a plate above the transmission.

iirc the ecm is below or on that plate, too.

relays are all alike so don't be afraid to play musical relays.

if you swap relays and your problem moves then you may have a relay problem

ie. if you swap the ign relay w the starter relay and it will no longer crank then that starter relay (which was ign) is toast.

take a little time (with help) to flex the relay sockets and wiring harness a little bit as your help is cranking the engine attempting a start.

on my rig i found a connection in the ign relay socket whose retention system was weak. rig often ran swell but it would mysteriously die.

restarted often but not always. flexing the harness would affect the outcome. fix was a new relay socket and a new connector.

a word of caution...

don't allow that starter to grind for too long at a spell or you could toast it.

let it cool for a long while between trouble shooting sessions.

good luck. sick boats are a stomach ache.

edit: typo

Edited October 16, 2013 by tvano