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Michigan boarder

Echelon engine removal advice

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Michigan boarder

I've got everything disconnected. I'm about to put the heads and brackets back on to pull the engine. Any last minute advice?

-- Should I pull the engine and tranny together? Seems easiest, someone recommended that too.

-- Is there any point in marking the mounts? I might use the same block, might not. Not sure at this point

-- Here's the big one...how do I disconnect the shaft from the transmission? This is a pic of my set up. Do I hold the shallow nut and loosen the longer nut? I don't understand how it is connected. Haven't touched that part yet.

post-8942-0-35876400-1381718427_thumb.jp

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Michigan boarder

Here's another pic, further up and right behind the transmission. Do I do something with this? Unbolt this flange (4 bolts)?

post-8942-0-13728900-1381718924_thumb.jp

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ebelizard

you may have posted this, but why are you taking out the engine and transmission?

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Michigan boarder

you may have posted this, but why are you taking out the engine and transmission?

Overheated, blew the head gasket, and detonated #5 piston. So it's either going to receive a rebuild or I'll put in a crate engine.

post-8942-0-84562200-1381721549_thumb.jp

Edited by Michigan boarder

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tvano

remove the four bolts that connect the coupler.

shaft will slide back towards the transom enough to yank the mill and/or transmission.

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Boatman

Here's another pic, further up and right behind the transmission. Do I do something with this? Unbolt this flange (4 bolts)?

I would mark both sides of the flange and then unbolt it there. That is where you will check the realignment when you reinstall.

I had the same thing happen to my 94 Echelon. The head gasket blew between two cylinders and ate a hole in the head and the block.

I bought a remanufactured engine and it worked out fine.

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Woodski

-- Should I pull the engine and tranny together? Seems easiest, someone recommended that too.


-- Is there any point in marking the mounts? I might use the same block, might not. Not sure at this point


-- Here's the big one...how do I disconnect the shaft from the transmission? This is a pic of my set up. Do I hold the shallow nut and loosen the longer nut? I don't understand how it is connected. Haven't touched that part yet



1. Yes, that will be much easier as the flywheel is buried in to the trans housing. Will also open up the bilge for a thorough inspection and cleaning.


2. Yes, it is a reference starting point and will save quite a bit of time down the road when you go for the re-install.


3. The four coupler bolts as noted above. The shaft is held to the thick coupler part via a nut on the end of the shaft now located inside the thick coupler section. Personally, I would also mark the two coupling pieces to assemble back the same way they came apart.


Edited by Woodski

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Michigan boarder

Thanks guys, will do all that.

Boatman - who did you buy your crate engine from and which engine did you use?

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WoodyBC

Leave the heads and intake off, just put some bolt in some open accessory holes, hook a short piece of chain to them, one front of the engine, one back, and lift it out.

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ebelizard

Overheated, blew the head gasket, and detonated #5 piston. So it's either going to receive a rebuild or I'll put in a crate engine.

I don't want to get away from the main topic, but is this a common problem? I just bought my echelon back in August, and I don't want to have to worry about this happening. Any preventative maintenance? My hour gauge on my dash does not work anymore, and the dealer told me the boat had less than 200 hours... (I know, it wasn't the brightest purchase, but I wanted the boat)

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Sixball

Overheated, blew the head gasket, and detonated #5 piston. So it's either going to receive a rebuild or I'll put in a crate engine.

Wow that is not detonation! Something got into the combustion chamber. Broken ring, ring land is broken. That is not what you normally see for pitting from detonation. Was that the original engine. Rebuilt?

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Sixball

I don't want to get away from the main topic, but is this a common problem? I just bought my echelon back in August, and I don't want to have to worry about this happening. Any preventative maintenance? My hour gauge on my dash does not work anymore, and the dealer told me the boat had less than 200 hours... (I know, it wasn't the brightest purchase, but I wanted the boat)

No this is not normal.. Keep a good impeller in it and pay attention to operating temp. If all goes well 5,000 + hours is not a problem.

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Michigan boarder

Leave the heads and intake off, just put some bolt in some open accessory holes, hook a short piece of chain to them, one front of the engine, one back, and lift it out.

I thought of doing that too. It will definitely be lighter, and if I'm taking it to get serviced it would save a step. But, I might put it together anyway to have the rocker arms and pushrods all back where they belong.

I don't want to get away from the main topic, but is this a common problem? I just bought my echelon back in August, and I don't want to have to worry about this happening. Any preventative maintenance? My hour gauge on my dash does not work anymore, and the dealer told me the boat had less than 200 hours... (I know, it wasn't the brightest purchase, but I wanted the boat)

No, it's not common at all. Here's my story:

I am usually the driver, and we put the boat in the water and my wife and 11 year old idled across the lake and over to our house while I dropped the trailer in the back yard. I came out to the pier to put it on the lift and as I walked down the pier I could hear it beeping, like the loud beep alarm that goes off when you leave your ingnition on but the boat not running. My walk turned into a run and as I was doing that "slit the throat" motion yelling to shut it off. It read 220 on the guage. Found the impeller had failed. Installed a new impeller. Ran good for the rest of the year, but later in the season started a small misfire. Still there the next year, but not terrible. I replaced some parts and hoped I had old gas to get thru. Started this year, ran terrible. Put on a rebuilt carb, ran worse. Checked compression, zero in #3 and #5.

So no, it's no common at all. Operator error on our part. Been a great boat since I bought it in 2008, and I knew the previous owner who had it since 2002 and it ran great for him too, which is a large part of the reason I bought it. Treat your engine right and it should last pretty much forever.

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Michigan boarder

Wow that is not detonation! Something got into the combustion chamber. Broken ring, ring land is broken. That is not what you normally see for pitting from detonation. Was that the original engine. Rebuilt?

AFAIK, original engine. I can't figure what could have gotten into the engine, and if you look at the left edge of the picture you'll see where the head gasket burned thru. Maybe it started picking the edge off of the piston, which cracked and went to pieces? It beat down the center electode on the spark plug too. I knew when I pulled that plug my season was nover. I'm a newbie at all of this, just making guesses.

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blk93jeepzj

Thanks guys, will do all that.

Boatman - who did you buy your crate engine from and which engine did you use?

I'll answer where I purchased mine from. marineenginedepot.com purchased mine from them over a year ago, has run flawless. They have long blocks and complete engines. Went the long block route on mine, previous owner did not winterize and cracked the block and heads.

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stocky

Had the same issue with my engine several years ago put in a reman engine but had issues getting timing right. Finally found out that you have to lie to the ecm set timing ran fine after that.

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Michigan boarder

I'll answer where I purchased mine from. marineenginedepot.com purchased mine from them over a year ago, has run flawless. They have long blocks and complete engines. Went the long block route on mine, previous owner did not winterize and cracked the block and heads.

Thank you for the referral. I didn't know about that one, been looking at a lot of them, still trying to figure out what to get.

Had the same issue with my engine several years ago put in a reman engine but had issues getting timing right. Finally found out that you have to lie to the ecm set timing ran fine after that.

No ECM to worry about for me, I'm using a carb. But thanks!

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Sixball

What does the combustion chamber on the head look like. Did it have a knock before this happened? I see the bad area for the head gasket. Is that over to another cylinder or a water jacket?

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Michigan boarder

What does the combustion chamber on the head look like. Did it have a knock before this happened? I see the bad area for the head gasket. Is that over to another cylinder or a water jacket?

That is over to another cylinder. 5 is the beat up piston, 3 suffered loss of compression due to the gasket. Combustion chamber on the head is beat up too, kinda greyish. But that's just it, it had no knock or other symptoms. A slight miss could be heard from the exhaust occasionally 2 years ago. Thought it went away, but when one of the boys was in the back they'd say they heard it a couple of times. Still ran WOT at 46mph/4600rpms. Winterized it and put it to bed that way. Then this year it misfired bad right from the start-up, like a plug wire or two were bad/intermittent. But I had replaced all ignition components, so I re-checked all that, and then started chasing any fuel issues, ending up pointing to the carb, so I swapped it out for a rebuilt. I figured that was it, a 1994 carb that hasn't been touched since 2002. Put it on, no change, ran awful. As I was on the lake with it (1 minute with new carb?) it suddenly stopped running erratically, and it ran smooth just with weak power (like on 6 cylinders). Brought it in, the second plug I pulled was #5, where I found the plug beaten down.

post-8942-0-23044500-1381778657_thumb.jp

Edited by Michigan boarder

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ebelizard

AFAIK, original engine. I can't figure what could have gotten into the engine, and if you look at the left edge of the picture you'll see where the head gasket burned thru. Maybe it started picking the edge off of the piston, which cracked and went to pieces? It beat down the center electode on the spark plug too. I knew when I pulled that plug my season was nover. I'm a newbie at all of this, just making guesses.

How many hours were on your motor when it went? I'm sorry to hear about the whole mishap, my heart would sink, and does whenever I hear that loud beep. Good luck on the rebuild, I look forward to the pics that'll be posted of the new motor install :)

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Michigan boarder

How many hours were on your motor when it went? I'm sorry to hear about the whole mishap, my heart would sink, and does whenever I hear that loud beep. Good luck on the rebuild, I look forward to the pics that'll be posted of the new motor install :)

Around 650 hours, but it could have been 65 hours with the same result. So many choices on the new engine, hope to have it figured out soon.

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