What are you pulling your trailer with?

[Bawshogg]

I love legit shootout videos. Looks like Ford Super Duty is after it for 2015.

http://youtu.be/IVyyUnQhYvs

All bullcrap aside. When it comes to the truck market, Ford means business. The 6.0L and 6.4L were two big black eyes to the Powerstroke moniker. Ford now has taken complete control of the Powerstroke diesel engine and it is showing. None of the others can say that. Both of the other competitors engines are outsourced from Isuzu and Cummins.

The 6.7 has been pretty impressive thus far. Who of us NEEDS to tow 20,000lbs though? I am interested to see just how far they will go with the HP and TQ wars. They have already exceeded what the mediium duty market needs.

[nyryan2001]

Ford F150 also won the 2013 1/2T under $45k shootout.

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-results.html

if someone could figure out how to embed that video that'd bee cool.

[Tims]

It's about time Ford got their stuff together on Powerstroke. I had the "pleasure" of owning both the 6.0 and 6.4 and even though neither left me stranded the hassle and expense has scared me away. Glad to see that the 6.7 is holding it's own. The competition is tuff out there and the big 3 all offer a really nice truck with great engines.

And just to be fair to the Dmax; Yes, it's an Izuzu design, but cast and built in Ohio at a joint venture plant. The 6.7 Powerstroke was designed in conjunction with AVL of Austria, so Ford had help as well. Both V-8's drive nice, but I still think the Cummins is the most durable and best suited for long haul towing due to the torque curve and the fact you don't have to pull the cab to work on them.

[board brained]

have a 2008 tahoe 5.3 L, 4 speed tranny..... until I read this post alway thought the truck had some issue as the gas milage was what i called "the worst on the planet"...... get about 12.5 MPG in the city ....... and when I tow it on it 2 or 3 times a year hike from sea level up to the lakes over the mountains I get between 9 and 10 MPG round trip........

after reading the posts I think the truck is pretty much on par for what everyone else is seeing

as I live two blocks from the boat launch I am staying with the gas....if i was towing more I would upgrade to diesel

on a couple of the really steep long hills I ask the family to get out and push...........

[Tims]

Out of all the V-8's the 5.3 Chevy is probably the worst tow engine when looking at torque curves. Add to that the fact that GM likes to run 3 to 1 gear ratios with their tow packages in the 1/2 ton line up, well you get a pretty bad tow experience compaired to the competition. Many feel the old Vortec 5.7 was a better tow motor in the light duty trucks.

[Bawshogg]

It's about time Ford got their stuff together on Powerstroke. I had the "pleasure" of owning both the 6.0 and 6.4 and even though neither left me stranded the hassle and expense has scared me away. Glad to see that the 6.7 is holding it's own. The competition is tuff out there and the big 3 all offer a really nice truck with great engines.

And just to be fair to the Dmax; Yes, it's an Izuzu design, but cast and built in Ohio at a joint venture plant. The 6.7 Powerstroke was designed in conjunction with AVL of Austria, so Ford had help as well. Both V-8's drive nice, but I still think the Cummins is the most durable and best suited for long haul towing due to the torque curve and the fact you don't have to pull the cab to work on them.

The 6.7 does not require cab off for service any longer. There are still cab-off procedures listed, but they are no longer "required" like the 6.4. Face it. regardless if cab is off or on, there are not too many folks that can sucessfully complete those procedures at home anyways. The days of wrenching on yoir own vehicle are slowly dwindling and especially on the diesels.

[3sport]

I've been following this thread with interest. Someone please tell me I wasn't a dummy for not upgrading my 2013 supercrew 5.5' box ecoboost to the max tow package with 3.70 rear end. I have the 3.55. Tow a vtx. I'd guess about 5000lbs all in. Tow through the mountains regularly. Towed with a v6 Tacoma this past summer. It was fine in the flats, but she had to work some on the inclines. Like to travel at 65 to 75 mph. Always knew the boat was there with the taco. Hoping to notice a little less so with the half ton.

[Bawshogg]

You will be fine with the 3.55's and stock tire size. EB has a lot lower torque curve than your Taco. In everything that I have seen the 3.55's return the fastest 1/4 mile time with the EB for some reason. VTX is barley a workout for that truck. I towed my old one a few times with the EB.

[TallRedRider]

TallRed- I think something may be confused here.... I wasnt advocating putting a supercharger on there... only adding that is was possible when you wanted to discuss all options.

and 45mph up the steep hills...with heavy load. thats in a controlled fashion 8k load on a 1/2T not going extreme to the 3500rpm downshift for your life. Not sure why you shaped it into a Tundra vs Excursion argument.... Of course a diesel Excusion would barrel up the mountain loaded down.

Let me clarify. In the thread I asked if it was feasible and worth the trouble. The general consensus was it is feasible, but not worth the trouble, because the trouble would be plenty. And you seemed clear that it didn't seem like a bright idea either.

I have only framed the argument as Excursion diesel vs. Tundra because that is my current world, and it is all that I have bona fide experience to compare. Your primary question in the other thread was why couldn't my Tundra pull my toy hauler, and you were pretty surprised that I had concerns about its ability. Now I understand why you were surprised. I am setting a standard of being at highway speeds, even on the mountain roads. I am sure that the Tundra would pull the toy hauler 45 MPH up the mountain, but that is not what I would consider 'capable'. So my standards are higher than most. The Tundra meets my standard when pulling the 247. But even my 6.0 Excursion is a bit lacking when pulling the toy hauler (it dogged it all the way down to 45 MPH on the steep hills, infact). That is why I've not even tested the Tundra/toy hauler combo.

[MLBurns]

They could have at least given the chevy the courtesty of a 4:10 rear end.

Nothing against the Ford (I almost bought one), but that comparison is crap. They need to do it with identical gear ratios, my guess is that is the only way they were able to win that competition. Just like props on a boat (monsoon with 1235).

[Bawshogg]

That's not completely true. Matching the gear ratio to the torque curve and transmission ratios also comes into play.

This is not such a big deal in a boat with one speed to compare to.

Chevy has historically run higher gear ratios in most trucks vs. Ford. This use to be due to the difference in trans ratios between the two. Why does Chevrolet offer a dually with a 3.73 gear ratio of it is not optimum for a towing application? What the heck else are you doing with a dually otherwise? Chevrolet only offers the 3500 dually 6.6l with a 3.73 rear axle ratio.

You get any ratio you want with the ford as long as its a 4.30 in dual form in a 450.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Bobby Bright

[shawndoggy]

http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/861565?ad_cid=8

Any constructive criticism on why it has not sold yet would be appreciated. No one has come to see it in person, so it can't be something about the condition of the truck...it really is in great condition, and you cannot tell that by pics alone.

Is it on CL in Las Vegas at least? Teh crew obviously doesn't know that craigslist hasn't permeated Utah yet.

For valuation I've had very very good luck selling vehicles when priced with the edmunds.com true market value calculator. Also good for valuing used vehicles to buy. Where does your rig come out on there if you "book" it?

[Tims]

The 6.7 does not require cab off for service any longer. There are still cab-off procedures listed, but they are no longer "required" like the 6.4. Face it. regardless if cab is off or on, there are not too many folks that can sucessfully complete those procedures at home anyways. The days of wrenching on yoir own vehicle are slowly dwindling and especially on the diesels.

I agree. You have to have big bucks in special tools and training to work on today's rigs. Sort of sad to see. I think Ford needs to design their super duty trucks with a tilt cab now.

[3sport]

You will be fine with the 3.55's and stock tire size. EB has a lot lower torque curve than your Taco. In everything that I have seen the 3.55's return the fastest 1/4 mile time with the EB for some reason. VTX is barley a workout for that truck. I towed my old one a few times with the EB.

Thanks. I initially had no doubts I would be fine, but then moronically started doing additional research and reading threads like this after the fact. On the ford forums everyone seems to be saying 3.70 is the way to go as the difference in mileage is negligible.

Now you also qualified your opinion with "stock tires", as do all the ford forums. I'll admit, I'm a mechanical idiot and didn't appreciate the impact tire size has on towing. So is it a big deal that I went from the 18" wheel to the 20"??

So to recap - ecoboost, 3.55 rear end. Supercrew with 5.5' box. 20" tires. Towing VTX through mtns. I'm still good??

[Bawshogg]

Is your overall diameter close to the same as stock? You will gain a heavier wheel and tire package in 20" form vs, 18" in the same diameter. Is it enough to notice? Probably not. As long as the diameter is close to what you had stock wise, you will be fine. Dont sweat it. You will be super impressed vs. your Tacoma, I will pretty much gauranee you that. The differnce in 3.55's vs 3.73's is neglegable. A differnce of about 250 rpm....if that. Trust me on this one.

Wait untill you step up to a tuner for that truck of yours. Talk about a differnce.

[UofM_MXZ]

You are fine! A vtx isn't that heavy. With the torque of the EB you ll be just fine. Quit reading threads about everyone's opinion about your truck. It is a really nice truck and there will always be a better one. Just the facts.

[3sport]

Is your overall diameter close to the same as stock? You will gain a heavier wheel and tire package in 20" form vs, 18" in the same diameter. Is it enough to notice? Probably not. As long as the diameter is close to what you had stock wise, you will be fine. Dont sweat it. You will be super impressed vs. your Tacoma, I will pretty much gauranee you that. The differnce in 3.55's vs 3.73's is neglegable. A differnce of about 250 rpm....if that. Trust me on this one.

Wait untill you step up to a tuner for that truck of yours. Talk about a differnce.

Thanks. Tuner (potentially) voids warranty, no?

You are fine! A vtx isn't that heavy. With the torque of the EB you ll be just fine. Quit reading threads about everyone's opinion about your truck. It is a really nice truck and there will always be a better one. Just the facts.

I know, I know. Can't help myself. stupid part is doing it after already buying the truck - what good is that...

I will say, having had the truck only a couple weeks and having not towed with it yet - I love it. For a stock truck it really goes, and so quiet and smooth too. My wife said to me the other day I must like it because she can no longer tell when I'm speeding so she can't get mad at me.

[MLBurns]

That's not completely true. Matching the gear ratio to the torque curve and transmission ratios also comes into play.

This is not such a big deal in a boat with one speed to compare to.

Chevy has historically run higher gear ratios in most trucks vs. Ford. This use to be due to the difference in trans ratios between the two. Why does Chevrolet offer a dually with a 3.73 gear ratio of it is not optimum for a towing application? What the heck else are you doing with a dually otherwise? Chevrolet only offers the 3500 dually 6.6l with a 3.73 rear axle ratio.

You get any ratio you want with the ford as long as its a 4.30 in dual form in a 450.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/1102dp_king_of_the_hill_silverado_vs_super_duty/

Same test with same gears, different results. And they do offer a 4.10 gear in chevy, $100 option.

Edited October 16, 2013 by MLBurns

[Grnking]

Pulled a A24 from louden TN to Memphis TN avg 70 mph and was very impressed with my 2013 Denali HD with duramax. Got 14 mpg loaded in the hills !

[Tims]

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/1102dp_king_of_the_hill_silverado_vs_super_duty/

Same test with same gears, different results. And they do offer a 4.10 gear in chevy, $100 option.

Old test. 2014 powerstroke has new turbo which addresses loss of power at high altitude.

[thtrog]

My Eco has 3.55 rear, no problem towing the 24 at all. You can limit it to 5th gear to keep RPM in the 2k range if needed at highway speeds.

[Bawshogg]

That test was from 2011 and is no longer relevant. I don't think your understanding me. If my first gear ratio is 3.75 :1in the Ford, and my first gear ratio is 4.25:1 in the Chevy, what advantage do lower rear axle gears obtain? Our effective gear ratio is similar. Then in my Ford the OD ratio is .75 vs .68 in the Chevrolet. This is how the rear axle ratio should be matched to the trans and sub sequentially to the tire size spec'd out.

As far as I can see from all the Chevrolet specs and build data, the 3.73 is the only option in a dually with the Duramax the way specific truck was shown during the test. You can opt for 4.10's with a gasser though.

[happypappy]

Out of all the V-8's the 5.3 Chevy is probably the worst tow engine when looking at torque curves. Add to that the fact that GM likes to run 3 to 1 gear ratios with their tow packages in the 1/2 ton line up, well you get a pretty bad tow experience compaired to the competition. Many feel the old Vortec 5.7 was a better tow motor in the light duty trucks.

ARe there multiple 5.3L's for GM? I was looking for the HP and TQ curve for the 5.3 and the specs showed it was a cast iron block. I know the 5.3 in my Buick is all aluminum. Are they the same engine (dimension, stroke, etc) just one CIron and one AL?? You could the get the old COPO 427 in either CI or AL, is this the same deal? thanks.

[isellacuras]

Specifically, good luck finding one in good shape that doesn't have 200k miles. I've been looking for one for a while now.

I don't mind 200k if it's in good shape. There's a few out there around me but I'm holding out for a nice black one to match the boat. Tundra does fine for now. I pretty much only use the truck to tow and go to Home Depot.

[Tims]

ARe there multiple 5.3L's for GM? I was looking for the HP and TQ curve for the 5.3 and the specs showed it was a cast iron block. I know the 5.3 in my Buick is all aluminum. Are they the same engine (dimension, stroke, etc) just one CIron and one AL?? You could the get the old COPO 427 in either CI or AL, is this the same deal? thanks.

Yes there are multiple configurations of the 5.3 (Flex fuel, AL, Cast Iron, etc) but they all have the same bore and stroke. The 5.3 in your Buick is the LM4 or LH6 (depending on what year) Throughout all the years and different configurations the peak torque numbers are pretty consistent between 320-340 pound feet. I am sure the new Direct Injected 5.3 is better, but still way down when compared to the Ford.