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UofM_MXZ

New boat winterization/service

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UofM_MXZ

hey guys/gals. I am new to the site here but not new to Malibu. I have owned a 06 Wakesetter, a 97 Vette, and now a 2012 VLX. I do have a few questions though. I recently bought the boat at a closeout price, which is good for me of course but since it is near the end of season here in VA I was only able to put 2-3 hours on the boat and I am going away for business soon so I plan to winterize before. I am not sure, one, if I can take it to any indmar dealer since my Malibu dealer is far away and there is a Supra dealer close by. Two, if I should have them change the oil since it will have been sitting for a while. Three, just have them change all of the original fluid i.e trans and drive. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Josh

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srab

Pretty sure the Supra dealer/authorized Indmar mechanic will be just fine for regular maintenance/service.

You'll get varying opinions, but most people lean towards changing out the oil while winterizing rather than changing it out first thing the next season.

So, yes, have them change the oil while they're at it. But, personally, I think I'd just wait until the 20 hour service to change the transmission and v-drive

fluids.

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UofM_MXZ

Yeah my only real concern is that the oil is new in theory since it has only had 3 hours or so on it, but it is 2012 oil, which would lead me to think to change it. I was also not sure about it having or not having break in oil. It is frustrating not having a dealer close by but that wasn't going to get me into buying a supra either, so I guess it is just the nature of the beast. My closest dealer is about 2.5 hours either way

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Baddog

Oil doesn't breakdown just sitting around. It needs engine run time before that happens. Oil from 2012 that only has 2-3 hours on it should be good. Go with what others have said and wait for the 20 hour mark.

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MLA

There's no such thing as break in oil. Its the same as what u pock up off the shelf.

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UofM_MXZ

I thought so. I just keep hearing the term, and I guess it comes from the idea that the initial oil could have more sedimate in it or whatnot but otherwise just the same. I may do an oil change at the beginning of the year just to be safe. It is cheap.

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MLA

Being a 2012 model that oil could have been in that engine for 2 years. That engine was tested before shipping to Malibu and then the boat was tested after being built. That's engine hours that may not be accounted for.

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NorrisRyan

Break in oil is different. Just broke in my 2014 VTX. Put 10 to 20 hours on it breaking it in as per the manual then change the oil. Was told by the dealer not to run the engine hard with the break in oil. It isn't designed for it.

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Bobby Light

Break in oil is different. Just broke in my 2014 VTX. Put 10 to 20 hours on it breaking it in as per the manual then change the oil. Was told by the dealer not to run the engine hard with the break in oil. It isn't designed for it.

Interesting :whistle:

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malibu2004

If you're not going to change all the oil's why would you take it to a dealership to winterize?

Put some stabil in the gas tank and run it for 10 minutes with a fake lake, drain the water, disconnect the battery and put it on a charger once a month.

Your price to winterize $3.95 for stabil

Dealership $179.00

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MLA

That is not correct from what I understand. Can anyone else chime in on this?

Can you share where this understanding is from? What is in "break-in oil" thats different from what one would put in their engine at the first oil change? What does an engine need in during break in period, that is not needed for the rest of its life span? Can you copy/paste what the manual states?

And for another day, break-in is nothing more then CYA by the manufacturer IMO, but I do not fault anyone for fallowing those recommendations though. If an engine is assembled right, it will live a long an healthy life even if its driven as intended from day one.

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UofM_MXZ

If you're not going to change all the oil's why would you take it to a dealership to winterize?

Put some stabil in the gas tank and run it for 10 minutes with a fake lake, drain the water, disconnect the battery and put it on a charger once a month.

Your price to winterize $3.95 for stabil

Dealership $179.00

I have to take it to a dealer for winter storage anyways, it is too tall for my garage. I was under/have been under the assumption that you need to put antifreeze through the engine unless that is incorrect. I have always lived I warm climates until now and that is why I have the questions, I have never had to winterize before and with a brand new boat I am just wanting to make sure it is right.

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MLA

I have to take it to a dealer for winter storage anyways, it is too tall for my garage. I was under/have been under the assumption that you need to put antifreeze through the engine unless that is incorrect. I have always lived I warm climates until now and that is why I have the questions, I have never had to winterize before and with a brand new boat I am just wanting to make sure it is right.

Draining the water from the drive train is all thats actually needed to prevent the engine from freezing. Adding the pink rv/marine antifreeze does prevent freezing, but only when used at 100%. This requires, guess what, draining the drive train. So to make the most of the pink antifreeze, the block is best drained first. So the one true benefit of the antifreeze, is the anti-rust protection it adds over leaving the block empty.

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UofM_MXZ

is there a write up on how to do this? I know there are plugs in the block and there are hoses that have to be undone I am just not sure which ones/

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MLA

Ok, did a little googling. boy, that sounds weird. In a quick search, AMSOIL, Comp Cams and Royal Purple all offer a "break in" oil. What I do not see is a break-in oil by any of the main stream oil manufacturers.

Here is the description from AMSOIL:

AMSOIL Break-In Oil is an SAE 30 viscosity grade oil formulated without friction modifiers to allow for quick and efficient piston ring seating in new and rebuilt high-performance and racing engines. It contains zinc and phosphorus anti-wear additives to protect cam lobes, lifters and rockers during the critical break-in period when wear rates are highest, while its increased film strength protects rod and main bearings from damage. AMSOIL Break-In Oil is designed to increase compression, horsepower and torque for maximum engine performance.

Quickly Seats Rings
The primary goal during engine break-in is to seat the rings against the cylinder wall. Properly seated rings increase compression, resulting in maximum horsepower; they reduce oil consumption and prevent hot combustion gases from entering the crankcase. To achieve this, however, the oil must allow the correct level of controlled wear to occur between the cylinder wall/ring interface while maintaining wear protection on other critical engine parts. Insufficient break-in leaves behind peaks on the cylinder wall that prevent the rings from seating. The deeper valleys, meanwhile, allow excess oil to collect and burn during combustion, increasing oil consumption. Too much wear results in cylinder glazing due to peaks rolling over into the valleys and preventing oil from collecting and adequately lubricating the cylinder wall.

AMSOIL Break-In Oil’s friction-modifier-free formula allows the sharp peaks on newly honed cylinder walls (fig. 1) to partially flatten. The result produces more surface area for rings to seat against, allowing formation of a dynamic seal that increases compression, horsepower and torque (fig. 2).

Protects Critical Parts from Wear
New flat-tappet camshafts and lifters are not seasoned or broken in and must be heat-cycled to achieve proper hardness. During the break-in period, these components are susceptible to accelerated wear because they are splash-lubricated, unlike other areas of the engine that are pressure lubricated. AMSOIL Break-In Oil contains high levels of zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) additives designed to provide the anti-wear protection required during this critical period.

Increased Film Strength
High-performance and racing engines often use aftermarket parts designed to increase torque and horsepower. The added stress can rupture the oil film responsible for preventing harmful metal-to-metal contact on rod and main bearings. The base oils in AMSOIL Break-In Oil provide increased film strength to protect bearings from wear.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Break-In Oil is designed to effectively break in high-performance and racing engines requiring SAE 30 oil, helping maximize compression, horsepower and torque.

RECOMMENDATIONS
The engine builder’s or manufacturer’s break-in recommendations should be followed if available. Break-in period should not exceed 1,000 miles. When the engine is new, the exhaust ports will have a large area of oil residue (Fig. 3). As the rings begin to seat, less oil is passed and the oil residue area begins to shrink (Fig. 4). When the rings are fully seated and have formed a tight seal against the cylinder walls, no oil residue will be evident. Other common methods to determine if rings have seated include performing a leak-down test or horsepower measurements over time. Break-in duration will vary between engines. Afterwards, drain and fill the engine with an AMSOIL high-performance synthetic oil that meets builder or manufacturer specifications.

In summery, it allows for increased friction between the rings and cylinder walls all while reducing friction between cam lobes and lifters, so the peaks of the cross-hatch of the freshly honed cylinder wall are worn at an increased rate. This seats the rings faster so the engine can reach peak HP and compression sooner. Increased wear and friction in my $10K boat engine! Not me!

From Edmunds.com top 7 urban legends about oil:

5. When you buy a new car, change your oil at 3,000 miles to remove metal particles from the engine break-in process. There might be a grain of truth to this, according to the experts at Blackstone. Oil samples from engines during the first 3,000 miles of driving show elevated "wear-in" metal levels, coming from the pistons and camshafts, says Ryan Stark, Blackstone's president. But he added, "To me, it doesn't make that much difference because if the filings are big enough to cause damage, they will be taken out by the oil filter."

However, a Honda spokesman says its cars come from the factory with a special oil formulation for the break-in period. Honda advises owners to not change the oil early. Stark said Blackstone Laboratories' test of Honda's break-in oil shows it contains molybdenum-disulfide, an anti-wear additive. But Stark said Honda is the only manufacturer he knows that's using special break-in oil. The take-away? If there are any special break-in recommendations from the manufacturer, follow them. And consider analyzing the oil at 3,000 miles

Moly-Lube is a specific bearing grease used during engine assembly. It can be used by anyone building an engine, but its great for an engine thats not going to be fired up upon completion. The Moly-Lube stays in place, as opposed to regular oil, which will drip off the assembled parts over time. Sounds like Honda adds it in an additive form to its new engines. But molybdenum-disulfide, an anti-wear additive, contradicts the AMSOIL description of its effect on piston rings.

Comp Cam:

Due to government regulations, in recent years oil manufacturers have removed the zinc and many of the other additives from their motor oil. However, using an “off-the-shelf” brand of oil during the critical break-in process can lead to a failure. Thus, COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil Additive is designed to extend the durability of internal engine components including camshafts, valve train components and all moving parts in your new or rebuilt engine. It does so by using a special blend of extreme pressure additives no longer available in “off-the-shelf” motor oils. COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil provides added protection during the break-in process and is compatible with any petroleum, synthetic or blended motor oil.

So again I ask, what is it that a new engine needs in its first miles, that it doesnt need in ALL its miles. IMO, they need the same thing, and off the shelf oil has it. If its good enough for my engine after the first few hours, it good enough for it from the first hour. I think these products are mostly marketing hype, and thats bases on 25 years in the auto repair and boat biz.

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Sixball

I hope this does not upset anyone but... The rings if all is going well never touch the cylinder walls. They ride on a very thin coat of oil the difference in pressure is what removes excess oil from the cylinder walls. The bottom ring or what is sometimes called the scraper ring. But it does not scrape oil The top ring is the main seal for compression. If the rings did touch you would never see honing marks in a used engine.

This was info from Mopar Drag racing school, also from Sealed power engineers and more the one of the best engine people to have run in the top sanction body's in the USA.

Edited by Sixball

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khelfrich

there is a break in oil that is added to a new motor or after you change cams if it is a flat tappet cam it helps with wearing in cam this is not needed in a roller cam not sure what is in the different variations of motors in the boats. also comp cams recommends to break in the cam to fire up the motor and hold it at 2500-3000 continuous for 30 min right after start up

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malibu2004

I have to take it to a dealer for winter storage anyways, it is too tall for my garage. I was under/have been under the assumption that you need to put antifreeze through the engine unless that is incorrect. I have always lived I warm climates until now and that is why I have the questions, I have never had to winterize before and with a brand new boat I am just wanting to make sure it is right.

You don't have to put antifreeze in it. Some people do because it makes them sleep better at night I guess.

If you get all the water out you don't have anything to freeze.

Engine, heater, v-drive water lines. I just disconnect all the water lines and then reconnect when the water drains out.

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UofM_MXZ

is there any way to tell that all of the water is out of the boat? I would hate to miss a line.

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Baddog

is there any way to tell that all of the water is out of the boat? I would hate to miss a line.

Once I drain the lines and block, I hook up the trusty shop vac to suck out any remaining H2O.

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UofM_MXZ

I just called Indmar, there is no such thing as them using break in oil. It is just a term used for the initial oil during the break in period.

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