What engine would you put in your boat?

[dihrdskir]

You said it in your post, bolded for emphasis. And....if this were a big, heavy vdrive then it would make much more sense. But we're talking about a lightweight ski boat & it just doesn't make much sense for the cost as well as the added weight (which makes a huge difference in the ski wake behind this boat).

Agreed WG. That is why I would have it as a small block and preferably all aluminium. Or perhaps an LSA or a 7.4 ilmor. All are small blocks and provided money was no object. Spending OP's money is fun...

[WakeGirl]

Yup, if money were no object right?

[MalibuNation]

I think his current engine is rated at 265 hp ... moving to a new small block in the 350-400hp range is going to make his boat scream ... best bang for the buck.

[Michigan boarder]

My head hurts.

[Michigan boarder]

OK, budget number - I'd like to stay at $5k. I can probably stretch it to $6k and still be married. At $7k I'm sleeping in the boat.

So, what do we have for a $5k recipe?

[MalibuNation]

MB,

Have you gotten numbers back from the go fast boat guy?

I know you have toyed with doing some of the work yourself ... have you thought about approaching The Edge or GLM or Action Water Sports to see if they would give you a break on work over the winter when they are slow. I think it's a reasonable question to ask.

MN

[JB-FOOT]

I think his current engine is rated at 265 hp ... moving to a new small block in the 350-400hp range is going to make his boat scream ... best bang for the buck.

Scream for sure...we have in our fleet a 97 Echelon Closed bow, that has a "MEASLY 320 HP" Monsoon in it....and that puppy runs 47 mph and just JUMPS out of the hole....so the 350-400 HP you mention will/can only be better....

By the way, we are at about 718' above sea level

Here is the wake (my line length is exactly 85 feet) behind this boat at 41 mph.....the video sound quality is bad because of the wind.....the motor runs VERY smooth and the noise is not backfiring...LOL

See how fast the boat is at 40+ mph from the start because you will hear the boat backing me off shortly after I stand up in the curl to get me to my desired speed of 41 mph...

I do not remember for sure, but I know that we had at least 3 more guys in the boat that morning....Also, we never have a back seat in the boats we barefoot or ski with, so that weight is not in the back....the boat is running the original Stock 3 blade SS prop....( I know, I know, but it isn't my boat)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyJcBjxJ9o

Edited October 23, 2013 by JB-FOOT

[Dare2goBare]

Scream for sure...we have in our fleet a 97 Echelon Closed bow, that has a "MEASLY 320 HP" Monsoon in it....and that puppy runs 47 mph and just JUMPS out of the hole....so the 350-400 HP you mention will/can only be better....

By the way, we are at about 718' above sea level

I have the L96, 410 HP in my TXi. she goes.......

[nuttyskier2002]

MB, How much of the work can you do yourself (or have time to do)? Bolt on heads and intake? Install all marinization pieces? Install engine and trans yourself? This is going to be a huge factor in how far you can go in upgrades. The more you can save on labor the more money will be left over for upgrades. Once you hear back from your engine guy.......start list of what needs to be done and break it done by what you can do and what you will need to pay to get done. Do you have any friends who build engines? Will they exchange favors for you? Also does that budget have to be solid if the boat doesn't have to run until next spring?

[Baddog]

OK, budget number - I'd like to stay at $5k. I can probably stretch it to $6k and still be married. At $7k I'm sleeping in the boat.

So, what do we have for a $5k recipe?

You have comfortable seats in your boat right? It's all good then.

[MalibuNation]

Yeah a big block and an aluminum block would be cool but I'm just trying to keep the price down. Also trying to KISS it, Keep It Simple Sir.

We are sitting at + or - 700 feet above sea level. Trying to keep MB from having to sleep in his boat

[Michigan boarder]

MB, How much of the work can you do yourself (or have time to do)? Bolt on heads and intake? Yes Install all marinization pieces? Yes Install engine and trans yourself? Yes This is going to be a huge factor in how far you can go in upgrades. The more you can save on labor the more money will be left over for upgrades. Once you hear back from your engine guy.......start list of what needs to be done and break it done by what you can do and what you will need to pay to get done. That is a good idea. If I can bring engine to him, have him build & dyno it, then I can pick it up from him and reinstall, then drop the boat off to him for final water test. Do you have any friends who build engines? No Will they exchange favors for you? Also does that budget have to be solid if the boat doesn't have to run until next spring? Pretty much. I am spending next year's tax return.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Michigan boarder

[Michigan boarder]

MB,

Have you gotten numbers back from the go fast boat guy?

I know you have toyed with doing some of the work yourself ... have you thought about approaching The Edge or GLM or Action Water Sports to see if they would give you a break on work over the winter when they are slow. I think it's a reasonable question to ask.

MN

I hadn't thought of that. Good idea. I'll see what my current guy comes back with.

I think his current engine is rated at 265 hp ... moving to a new small block in the 350-400hp range is going to make his boat scream ... best bang for the buck.

Honestly, I am shooting for 320 to 350hp now. I just want it to be competitive with current boats. If I can swing 400, or 380hp that would be great, but I gotta be realistic about the price.

You have comfortable seats in your boat right? It's all good then.

But all the beer is in the house!

[JB-FOOT]

I hadn't thought of that. Good idea. I'll see what my current guy comes back with.

Honestly, I am shooting for 320 to 350hp now. I just want it to be competitive with current boats. If I can swing 400, or 380hp that would be great, but I gotta be realistic about the price.

But all the beer is in the house!

MB

I updated my previous post with a Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyJcBjxJ9o of the wake view behind the Echelon with the 320 HP Monsoon in it....so you can see what your expectations can get you...

And by the way, when you get your NEW motor in the boat next year, I wanna see a video of you FOOTING long line behind it....NO EXCUSES this time....

JB

[Michigan boarder]

MB

I updated my previous post with a Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyJcBjxJ9o of the wake view behind the Echelon with the 320 HP Monsoon in it....so you can see what your expectations can get you...

And by the way, when you get your NEW motor in the boat next year, I wanna see a video of you FOOTING long line behind it....NO EXCUSES this time....

JB

Looking good JB! What's that production plant in the background?

Long line is in my very near future. I almost had it last summer, only had 1 opportunity to try. I could feel it this time, but my driver couldn't.

Yeah, I was hoping to have something bad "a" that would really differentiate my Echleon from the others with SBC's, but I think I need to concede. Still, we haven't exhausted everything yet. I had no complaints or plans to upgrade before the engine failure, so no matter what, this will still end up being an upgrade.

[JB-FOOT]

Looking good JB! What's that production plant in the background?

Long line is in my very near future. I almost had it last summer, only had 1 opportunity to try. I could feel it this time, but my driver couldn't.

Yeah, I was hoping to have something bad "a" that would really differentiate my Echleon from the others with SBC's, but I think I need to concede. Still, we haven't exhausted everything yet. I had no complaints or plans to upgrade before the engine failure, so no matter what, this will still end up being an upgrade.

That is a COAL fired electricity plant...that our FEARLESS leader of this fine nation is shutting down....and to think the coal mine unions voted for him.....

Wind dies down and the sun goes in at night, coal burns right on through all of that,,,,

[dihrdskir]

Well, good news. The block is fine, that spot in between the cylinders is "nothing". So here's what he is thinking:

-Aluminum fast burn heads for sure

-A small cam

-New intake

-He would like to see new exhaust manifolds, but depends on expense.

-He would like to make it into a 383, but thinks we will be at the $10k mark pretty quickly

-Looking at something around 350hp to stay under $5k

-He really would rather I bring the boat down and he do the install, water test, etc. and deliver it back to me ready to go, instead of just delivering the engine to me. I understand that, and I'd probably push for the same if I were him. That's more money...but that also means better reliability and less hours for me. We'll see how expensive that tradeoff is.

He's going to put some stuff on paper and get back with me next week.

Edit: He ran his fingers around that bad cylinder and was surprised to feel no damage at all. So it does not need to be bored out.

Hello MB,

Given that your bottom end appears to be stout, I think the decision is whether to "freshen" the existing rotating assembly especially given your 642 hrs. The risk you take is not knowing for sure what it is like unless you disassemble and inspect. If you are considering taking the risk and unless you have oil leaks or something you want to fix why not leave it in the boat (potentially your new home). if you were pretty happy with the performance pre overheat, go to the top half of the engine to get the gains you are after well within budget. I like nuttyskiers head information. Stick to the Vortecs. The intake port volume of the fast burns @ 215cc is too big unless you go up in capacity. Muck around with the rocker arm ratios to get more lift at the valve if you want, match the ignition, stick to the weber but definitely go for tube headers to get some real benefits with this combo. Mind you this opinion goes out the window if you pull the engine down. Then it is a 383 all the way.

[nuttyskier2002]

Your goal of 320 to 350 is very realistic with 350 cu in. If you want 400 HP you will have to go with a 383 to be able to get both HP and a decent idle.......one that your wife can live with. 350 cu in means you can reuse most of your rotating assembly and just get pistons, rings, bearings and gaskets.......ect. ZZ4 cam and heads of course. You can save a little money on the heads if you go with Bowtie Vortecs as opposed to the aluminum Fast Burns. Still a very worthwhile upgrade and the Bowties are definitely capable of obtaining 350 HP with a ZZ4 cam. As a matter of fact the Bowties wont even be a limiter until after you go over 400.

[Baddog]

I hadn't thought of that. Good idea. I'll see what my current guy comes back with.

Honestly, I am shooting for 320 to 350hp now. I just want it to be competitive with current boats. If I can swing 400, or 380hp that would be great, but I gotta be realistic about the price.

But all the beer is in the house!

Since you are spending so much on the new engine, you might as well keep going and buy a 6 tap Keezer and put that in the garage too. You are back to good.

[Woodski]

I have to slightly disagree with some points in the previous posts, the fast burn heads work extremely well, really like the ZZ4 cam and provide ample performance for multi footer runs, one never has to use full throttle to pull a footer, the combo idles just fine and the CFO will not have an issue. The carb calibration will be the biggest tune needed to provide good starts & warm up performance. The port volume has not been an issue for me & the power level exceeds the other Monsoon units on the lake so it is certainly in the 385 hp range per the specs. I do think that a set of Vortecs for what MB's budget limit is and the gain they will provide will be a great option to the fast burns, I would let the budget decide your choice, you will be happy with either.

[JB-FOOT]

YEP.....this is going to be another "LEVI needs a new boat thread"....

[nuttyskier2002]

I have to slightly disagree with some points in the previous posts, the fast burn heads work extremely well, really like the ZZ4 cam and provide ample performance for multi footer runs, one never has to use full throttle to pull a footer, the combo idles just fine and the CFO will not have an issue. The carb calibration will be the biggest tune needed to provide good starts & warm up performance. The port volume has not been an issue for me & the power level exceeds the other Monsoon units on the lake so it is certainly in the 385 hp range per the specs. I do think that a set of Vortecs for what MB's budget limit is and the gain they will provide will be a great option to the fast burns, I would let the budget decide your choice, you will be happy with either.

Wood....are you using fast burns on your boat? The fast burns are essentially the same head as the vortec except they are made of aluminum and have larger intake runner sizes (215 vs 170). They also have a slightly smaller combustion chamber. That is a big step up! Fast burns are designed for the higher airflow needed by either going up in cu in or by increasing RPM. He isn't doing either and for his purpose the Bowtie Vortecs with 185 cc runners will work great! My take on this is why spend critical dollars on an upgrade that you aren't going to use? His heads are pre-vortec era.........which means even the basic 170cc vortecs would be a worthwhile upgrade to him. Just my 2 cents.

[Woodski]

@nuttyskier: Yes w/ a ZZ4 cam and an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold. I have over 800 hours on that combo & have been able to compare to a RLX w/ Monsoon (I won all through the range but mostly,as you imply, once it hit 2500 rpm more noticeable difference). I was basically commenting that the larger intake runner did not really hurt anything. A couple of additional comments: the additional compression can still handle regular fuel but there will need to be some of his budget for a new prop and a better spark arrestor. The stock prop will cavitate from 2500-4500 rpm (feels like a rubber band) and the stock spark arrestor clips about 200 rpm off the top. I agree with you 100% that a set of Vortec's would be a great choice particularly if there is a significant price difference. I think the prop demand curve (somewhat similar to a torque converter) makes the bigger runner effect less of an issue compared to a manual trans type application. I will tell you, the spool up effect of these heads is quite impressive, you have to be on your toes (no pun intended) when you do long line barefoot starts, you get to 40+ right now so you can't be casual about standing up.

[nuttyskier2002]

@nuttyskier: Yes w/ a ZZ4 cam and an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold. I have over 800 hours on that combo & have been able to compare to a RLX w/ Monsoon (I won all through the range but mostly,as you imply, once it hit 2500 rpm more noticeable difference). I was basically commenting that the larger intake runner did not really hurt anything. A couple of additional comments: the additional compression can still handle regular fuel but there will need to be some of his budget for a new prop and a better spark arrestor. The stock prop will cavitate from 2500-4500 rpm (feels like a rubber band) and the stock spark arrestor clips about 200 rpm off the top. I agree with you 100% that a set of Vortec's would be a great choice particularly if there is a significant price difference. I think the prop demand curve (somewhat similar to a torque converter) makes the bigger runner effect less of an issue compared to a manual trans type application. I will tell you, the spool up effect of these heads is quite impressive, you have to be on your toes (no pun intended) when you do long line barefoot starts, you get to 40+ right now so you can't be casual about standing up.

That's good stuff! I'd love to take a ride in your boat. It sounds like alot of fun. I don't barefoot. Never tried it. I did toy around with my Echelon some and installed Vortecs from RHS. Since it was a '95 (pre-vortec also) this was a big improvement. Like you say......it hits 40 in nothing flat. I didn't get around to putting a cam in it before selling but the cam I had to go in it was a comp cams 212/218 488/495 in/ex (slightly less than the HH). I think I'm going to use this cam in the 383 that I'm building for my Vride. My only issue right now is finding a reliable place to tune the MEFI 5 with this combo.

[Michigan boarder]

Hello MB,

Given that your bottom end appears to be stout, I think the decision is whether to "freshen" the existing rotating assembly especially given your 642 hrs. The risk you take is not knowing for sure what it is like unless you disassemble and inspect. If you are considering taking the risk and unless you have oil leaks or something you want to fix why not leave it in the boat (potentially your new home). if you were pretty happy with the performance pre overheat, go to the top half of the engine to get the gains you are after well within budget. I like nuttyskiers head information. Stick to the Vortecs. The intake port volume of the fast burns @ 215cc is too big unless you go up in capacity. Muck around with the rocker arm ratios to get more lift at the valve if you want, match the ignition, stick to the weber but definitely go for tube headers to get some real benefits with this combo. Mind you this opinion goes out the window if you pull the engine down. Then it is a 383 all the way.

The engine is coming out either way, there is one piston shot. The move to 383 will all depend on budget and what I can do versus pay for. So my two limitations are 1)$$$ and 2)what I can do to help. The BEST part of this is that time is not a factor, I have all fall to get it done. My goal is to have this wrapped up by the end of January so that I am ready to roll for an early April launch.