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Afun

Twinzer Set-Up vs Quad Characteristics

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Afun

Please help me identify the characteristics of each. All the threads I see are for ocean surfers.

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Afun

This is what I found, but I do not think it translates to wakesurf and Surfgate or listed waves. You thoughts...lots of reading

I'm thinking about getting a twinzer or quad for surfing in more hollow waves, preferably beachbreaks. Currently on a retro fish, but want a more performance-oriented board. Heard that the twinzer is super fast and loose but can sometimes feel out of control. I know it's all been discussed a million times before but any input would be welcome.

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20W-50 and blood

Duke status

Reged: 02/04/04

Posts: 17228

Loc: SOCAL

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: Maverick]

#1640452 - 08/04/09 04:30 PM

quad, no question

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obslop

Michael Peterson status

Reged: 02/04/02

Posts: 2711

Loc: san diego, CA

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: 20W-50 and blood]

#1640454 - 08/04/09 04:36 PM

if you want to focus on hollow waves, buy a used high performance shortboard(quad or tri) - the template is far more important than the fin set-up

if you're intent on fishyness, the twinzer is faster in crap but the quad is overall a much better performing set-up

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GDaddy

Kelly Slater status

Reged: 01/16/06

Posts: 7961

Loc: Carlsbad

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: obslop]

#1640478 - 08/04/09 05:09 PM

There's been a lot of talk around here lately about performance twins on fast waves so there's obviously something to that. Wil Jobson's standard Twinzer board is a performance shape that's intended for fast waves. Quads are obviously good on fast waves, too. I think it really depends on how you want to surf.

I surf a twinzer setup on a Modfish-type board as a daily driver and it will handle as fast a wave as I am willing to surf with that template. But after a certain point I think the quad is more versatile. Mine seems to max out once it gets a couple feet overhead but I think that might be more of a limitation with the template (and my fat a**) than with the fins. I might favor the quad in a performance shape, but then again I've never surfed a GG-style twin; that could turn out to be a life altering event for me if I ever get around to it. YMMV.

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twinfins

Legend (inyourownmind)

Reged: 04/05/09

Posts: 217

Loc: Perfect indian ocean juice !

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: Maverick]

#1640480 - 08/04/09 05:17 PM

Quote:

I'm thinking about getting a twinzer or quad for surfing in more hollow waves, preferably beachbreaks. Currently on a retro fish, but want a more performance-oriented board. Heard that the twinzer is super fast and loose but can sometimes feel out of control. I know it's all been discussed a million times before but any input would be welcome.

I owned 6 quad fish , DK sword fish are the BEST !!!

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need 4 speed

Michael Peterson status

Reged: 11/01/03

Posts: 2916

Loc: SoCal

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: twinfins]

#1640486 - 08/04/09 05:31 PM

The problem is that you'll need to do a custom if you want a twinzer

Most you see in the classifieds and off the rack are intended as mush busters

The Cole that B5F posted(I think) was a good example of a more performance oriented twinzer

Talk to DJ

I'm sure he can tweak you what you want

And get JimmyJazz to do you one of those fancy glass jobs

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NOT THAT KIND

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Halcyon

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Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: need 4 speed]

#1640849 - 08/05/09 10:44 AM

The Twinzer vs Quad discussion is one that's hard to nail down, but I'll give it a go here. Knowing Wil's and Stretch's work well and having surfed both I must say that they both have their merits. There a lots of shapers making what they call Quads or Twinzers. In an earlier thread the point that the shape of the board was more important that the fin set-up was brought up. Certainly this idea has it's merit but the marriage of fin placement, configuration, size, cant, and foil all have a significant role in board performance. Some boards will work better with a twinzer set-up, some with a quad. I have seen both set-ups work great is small mushy surf and at Nelscott Reef towing into huge surf. Of course the boards built for these very different condition are most dissimilar but if the fin set-up is done right either one will work beautifully and is a very versatile one. Twinzer and Quad set-ups go on many departures from what Stretch or Wil do but as I look around their work is very good starting point as they have been hard at developing these fin set-ups for decades.

I think the main difference in the two fin set-ups is that the Quad doesn't facilitate as tight an engaged turning radius as a Twinzer. Both give great engaged drive at speed but the quad is more stable as long as the trailers aren't too small. Because the center fin is absent in both set-ups they don't decelerate like a truster when in trim so if you want to slow them down the only option outside of dragging an arm or a leg is to climb the wave face vertically. When you get to the top the Twinzer will hack better than the Quad unless you quad is set-up with small trailer in which case you can break the tail out at the top. Unfortunately if the trailers are down sized to do this the board will be squirrelly on a freight train wall. Both set-ups are super and will work well on longboards, midlength, or shortboards equally well. There are several other shapers here in Santa Cruz that do a fine job with these set-ups. It's all about the the guys putting the package together.

Back to the fin shop, Rich

--------------------

Custom Finmaker

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need 4 speed

Michael Peterson status

Reged: 11/01/03

Posts: 2916

Loc: SoCal

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: Halcyon]

#1641393 - 08/05/09 08:24 PM

Rich

I kind of like twinzers and did a small amount of reading on them before I had one shaped.

Is it my imagination or most not using the amount(enough) of cant on the finlets as Will designed?

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NOT THAT KIND

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Halcyon

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Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: need 4 speed]

#1641442 - 08/05/09 10:30 PM

Yo NEED,

No, it's not your imagination, mate.

Wil runs his canards at 10 degrees, unless he's working on a new prototype & and believe me he's not afraid of do some way out of the box creations.

Others run more straight up, usually from 7 and 4 degrees.

Stay Stoked, Rich

--------------------

Custom Finmaker

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dudeman30

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Loc: Long Island

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: Halcyon]

#1642677 - 08/07/09 08:24 PM

I would not buy a twinzer for a steep wave. When i get up high on the wall I am not surprised when the board falls off the wave. It does not ride in the pocket very well. It likes to be connected with all fins down and when riding front side I have pushed the fins out of the wave. If I get leaned over and keep all 4 fins engaged I can pull off some crazy turns where I'm completely horizontal in a high speed turn. Its also not my favorite board to take a steep drop. Once again if board rides on the rail to much and disengages the outside rail fin the board can spin out if pushed too hard. You have to keep the bottom down which is tough on steep days and can result in pearling. Flatter and fatter waves are where the twinzer so soooooo money. With both the big fins engaged you can generate crazy speed with even the slightest slope. I think they work better in keel lengths. I have ridden a 5'10, 5'4 and 5"11. The 5'4 was crazy and felt like a skateboard. It also stayed in the pocket and was easier to break the fins.

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Halcyon

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Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: dudeman30]

#1642821 - 08/08/09 08:48 AM

Yo Dudeman,

Who built your Twinzer?

Be Stoked, Rich

--------------------

Custom Finmaker

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Maverick

Grom

Reged: 11/01/06

Posts: 31

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: dudeman30]

#1643230 - 08/09/09 02:52 PM

Hi Dudeman,

Thanks for the reply. Could you tell me up to how high you enjoy riding them? Would they still work well in medium-sized walls where you have just the two fins engaged? Or u saying the board really only works when all 4 are engaged?

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dudeman30

Legend (inyourownmind)

Reged: 04/23/08

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Loc: Long Island

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: Maverick]

#1643416 - 08/09/09 11:17 PM

My twinzer was shaped by Larry Mabile. Its a double bump with a nice pulled in tail. Nose is not super fat but a little more performance oriented. The cool part is that its a single into double concave bottom and when matched with the pulled in tail, a looser smaller turning element is part of the picture at slower speeds or weaker waves. At high speeds the board gets directional and the big fins don't release, you do!!! I have flown off the board after trying to turn a little to tight and standing too high. It hurts sometimes if you are flying. It was a great east coast board but when steeper hollow waves showed up the griffin modfish was my new go too providing a huge confidence boost even though it is 2" smaller and much thinner. Crazy.

I have had it out in double overhead and felt like another board with more nose rocker and It can work with a wall if you can get in a little early and get enough speed to ride up real high but still keep the board flatter on the wave its a fun and really fast section connecting board. It doesn't really slow down very well so small turns and vert surfing doesn't come easy. I have ridden my twinzer in pretty big east coast surf the best day ever was hurrican ernesto which had some of my greatest high speed rides ever. There were however a bunch of waves that were too steep and if I went too high on the wall the board would let go sometime. i felt like I stopped thru the wave. The board will slide sideways down the face and you kind of fall forward onto your stomach or straight down if its big enough. If I feather it or keep the other fin down its fun. My griffin modfish on the other hand....velcro!!!

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jwu

Legend (inyourownmind)

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Loc: San Diego

Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: dudeman30]

#1643427 - 08/10/09 12:32 AM

I'm not sure thats a fair comparison. The mabile twinzer is thicker, fishier foil and thus is more slippery and out of control at higher speeds. The modfish is super pulled in, thinned out rails with a more shortboardy foil. Its like comparing a daniel thomson keel to a Mabile Keel.

I'd be interested to try a quad and twinzer in the same exact board and then make the comparison. I personally have never ridden a high-performance modfish type of twinzer and would be interested to try one out. I recently picked up an HP Keel by Ian and the thing flys and can go vert with ease, feels nothing like my old pavel keel.

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Halcyon

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Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: jwu]

#1643484 - 08/10/09 08:36 AM

There are so many versions of Twinzers and Quads with so many variations in board configuration and fin choice that making blanket statements about how either fin set-up works isn't an easy one. When you boil it all down the two fin set-up do change board performance quite a bit but making comparisons, as has been pointed out above has to be done with effective fin arrangement on board of very similar foil and size. It's the only way to get an informed picture of how the two approaches to a four fin set-up really work.

Off to the fin shop, Rich

--------------------

Custom Finmaker

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[email protected]

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Re: Twinzer vs quad [Re: Halcyon]

#1643510 - 08/10/09 09:19 AM

A significant difference between the "two setups" (actually three when you consider Quads with trailers closer and toe more parallel to the stringer vs. Quads with trailers closer the the rail and similar toe to the lead fins) is whether you want your smaller fins to act as caynards or dampeners. Caynards breakup the flow ahead of the larger fins and reduce drag. Dampeners get pulled around behind the larger fins and help control the rate of change in angle of attack. Think of the combination of your rail and the placement of you larger fin as the pivot point of your turns. The distance between the leading edge closest to the board of the front fin and the trailing edge of the tip of your rear fin and the amount of rail tail area you have engaged in a turn as you pivot point. The further apart these points are the drivier and stiffer your board will feel. Each of these fin setups has a different approach of spreading those points. But, the closer together they are the more responsive you board will ride until it gets out of control twitchy.

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Edited by Afun

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daylorb

I've got a couple wakesurfers that can be configured with either twin or quad setup. My thoughts...

* Assuming same size fins, twin config is faster, seems way faster, quad config is slower but turns harder/bites more on the turns

* I've seen some quad setups with shorter fins - never tried one - my expectation would be that a quad with 4 smaller fins than a twin is going to get back some of the speed, probably be more dynamic on the way than a twin/turn better, but it is likely a very small difference

* I never ride with my boards in quad config - I'd much rather have speed and they are pretty turny with twin fins already

Hope that helps!

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Afun

I've got a couple wakesurfers that can be configured with either twin or quad setup. My thoughts...

* Assuming same size fins, twin config is faster, seems way faster, quad config is slower but turns harder/bites more on the turns

* I've seen some quad setups with shorter fins - never tried one - my expectation would be that a quad with 4 smaller fins than a twin is going to get back some of the speed, probably be more dynamic on the way than a twin/turn better, but it is likely a very small difference

* I never ride with my boards in quad config - I'd much rather have speed and they are pretty turny with twin fins already

Hope that helps!

I am talking twinzer not twin. With the small canard fins next to the big ones.

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daylorb

I am talking twinzer not twin. With the small canard fins next to the big ones.

You mean I'm required to read the fine print? Man - these forums are getting strict!

Sorry... missed that...

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