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Dodge 1500 Diesel


nyryan2001

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Man. You have to install spark plugs every 30K on that Hemi? Should have bought an Eco. :biggrin: My discussion with you started with the Ecoboost vs the Ram Diesel and you moved it to the Hemi. Thats fine; I agree that the new Ram Diesel makes better financial sense than a 2013 Hemi without the 8 speed or stop/start technology assuming that the engine is a gem and performs as marketed.

I recognize the wink and think a lot of the fords...I really do. Given the price was far less for the Dodge, plugs were not a major concern, but MOST importantly, Dodge offers latch system for 3 carseats in the rear...ford only has 2...wifey pulled the trigger for me. That said, I've never had a vehicle that I actually like the look of after 4 years unlike this truck, which I still find stunning after a good carbonite wax! Oddly, I actually think I'm going to keep it forever no matter how good the diesel is.

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One thing for certain, and no one can argue this, the numbers that the corporate peeps are spewing to the press WON'T be accurate. That goes for any manufacturer.

Same engine estimated at 30 hwy in the GC...at least 26 HWY is "not" accurate? dunno...I've never heard a corporate peep misrepresent mileage. the difference is in real world compared to epa

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For one, yes, I think displacement is a large part of it (you have previously contended you thought it would get 1 mpg worse than a 3.0, I WOULD dispute that purely on displacement grounds) but I also think Dodge has done their homework when it comes to extracting every last drop from their powerplants with the shutters, air suspension, the goofy alternator thing, etc. While no one has seen the new Titan, I don't think it would come within 1 mpg of the Dodge even using the 3.0. Add to that that regardless of consumption, the 5.0 will undoubtedly be more expensive to produce since 1) its simply bigger and raw materials cost more 2) its being designed for the nissan from scratch (running with old ram design for the 5.0) and 3) has to be sourced in America, so it will likely be, in my humble prediction, a much more expensive upgrade than 3k. So, it will be a more expensive upgrade, will undoubtedly consume more fuel in a package that will not likely be as aero as the Ram, I think all that adds up to a conclusion that the 3.0 will be received better than would a similar 5.0. Of course, Nissan and Toyota are going to sell plenty from their loyal buyers, but stealing from EB or GM 6.2 buyers? I'm not seeing it given higher price or american truck buyers who would just prefer a "real" truck with a diesel.

You do realize that the 3.0 Ram Diesel is built by VM Motori in Italy, one of the highest cost places to manufacture on the planet. We will have to wait and see what the premuim cost will be on the Titan so let's leave out the pure guess work. Emissions, fuel injection technology, and volumetric efficiency is what is really going to make the difference in fuel mileage, not displacement. The Ford 6.7 Powerstroke gets almost 4mpg better efficiency than the outgoing Navastar 6.4 and makes more power and torque. I have my money on Cummins. They have been building diesels for awhile.

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You do realize that the 3.0 Ram Diesel is built by VM Motori in Italy, one of the highest cost places to manufacture on the planet. We will have to wait and see what the premuim cost will be on the Titan so let's leave out the pure guess work. Emissions, fuel injection technology, and volumetric efficiency is what is really going to make the difference in fuel mileage, not displacement. The Ford 6.7 Powerstroke gets almost 4mpg better efficiency than the outgoing Navastar 6.4 and makes more power and torque. I have my money on Cummins. They have been building diesels for awhile.

Sure. I also realize the efficiencies of scale, as do you in your line of work. Didn't you say yourself that you have friends who will be working on the 5.0 for cummins? getting a new line online and sunk costs going along therewith is different than just making "more of the same". But your points are not all lost on me and you make several good ones. I'm going to bet the diesel upgrade in nissan is more than 3k and its not within 1 mpg of the 3.0. But what do I know, just a keyboard cowboy.

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I recognize the wink and think a lot of the fords...I really do. Given the price was far less for the Dodge, plugs were not a major concern, but MOST importantly, Dodge offers latch system for 3 carseats in the rear...ford only has 2...wifey pulled the trigger for me. That said, I've never had a vehicle that I actually like the look of after 4 years unlike this truck, which I still find stunning after a good carbonite wax! Oddly, I actually think I'm going to keep it forever no matter how good the diesel is.

I don't even own a eco but I have to give Ford credit. They laid their junk out on the table and came away winners with that engine. I Chickened out and got the 6.2 gas guzzler (15mpg average) as I got burned badly with turbos and complicated injection systems which is why I am passionate about this topic. I miss the diesels, but now love the sound and simplicity of my old fashon V8 truck and will not get another diesel until the fuel is cheaper than gas or I have to hall over 10K pounds.

Edited by Tims
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ding ding ding we have a winner, I'll buy this guy a beer!

Dodge says initial premium paid back in 3 years ($2,850 premium, will "exceed" 25 mpg)...average age of pickup on the road 12 years...I ain't no mathematician but...on AVERAGE, that's $9,000 in savings assuming its just reaches AVERAGE age...hmm...maybe I will look at this thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wtfact8ttg

Will you buy me a beer ?

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I still can't believe people argue this. You don't buy a diesel or a hybrid to save money.

I would disagree with this statement. If you live in a State or Province were you can pull the emmission off, that diesel will be getting decent mileage and saving substatial $ over a gas truck especially if you tow and put some decent miles on the truck every year. But , you got to have the balls to kill the warranty, once emmision deletes are done and the programmer is installed, kiss warranty good bye. On real world mileage, my 2012 GMC driving about 70 mph on hwy, I average 21-22+mpg on hwy empty, 18-19 mix city/hwy, 14.5-16mpg hauling 8K pounds travel trailer or the Bu. I own a travel trailer, I own a boat,....I tow and drive alot.....a gas truck doesn't compare in power or fuel economy for what I use my truck for. Cost of a delete was $700, that's the programmer and a piece of 4 inch pipe welded in place of the dpf tank.

Someone mentioned the Hemi earlier. The Hemi is a pig on gas unless you are on a flat road and the wind at your back going 50mph. Real world one would be lucky to see 10mpg towing.

Also no one is mentioning that Ford EB has had issues with turbos failing. I know of three EB with failed turbos from owners that used their trucks for hauling because they bought into the 11K pound towing with a V6 gimick. Bu boats aren't light either and that is a huge risk and cost if it fails out of warranty.

I have own diesel trucks the last 15 years. I haven't spent the money someone is saying they need to spend on upkeep diesels and I put on about 200-250K miles on a truck before I sell them. Maintenance would be same as any gas truck....water pump, fuel lift pump, tires, shocks, brakes, etc. Diesel trucks cost me less to run and sell for more when I'm done with them and I'm buying them at the same price or pretty close to a V8 upgrade cost.

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I would disagree with this statement. If you live in a State or Province were you can pull the emmission off, that diesel will be getting decent mileage and saving substatial $ over a gas truck especially if you tow and put some decent miles on the truck every year. But , you got to have the balls to kill the warranty, once emmision deletes are done and the programmer is installed, kiss warranty good bye. On real world mileage, my 2012 GMC driving about 70 mph on hwy, I average 21-22+mpg on hwy empty, 18-19 mix city/hwy, 14.5-16mpg hauling 8K pounds travel trailer or the Bu. I own a travel trailer, I own a boat,....I tow and drive alot.....a gas truck doesn't compare in power or fuel economy for what I use my truck for. Cost of a delete was $700, that's the programmer and a piece of 4 inch pipe welded in place of the dpf tank.

Someone mentioned the Hemi earlier. The Hemi is a pig on gas unless you are on a flat road and the wind at your back going 50mph. Real world one would be lucky to see 10mpg towing.

Also no one is mentioning that Ford EB has had issues with turbos failing. I know of three EB with failed turbos from owners that used their trucks for hauling because they bought into the 11K pound towing with a V6 gimick. Bu boats aren't light either and that is a huge risk and cost if it fails out of warranty.

I have own diesel trucks the last 15 years. I haven't spent the money someone is saying they need to spend on upkeep diesels and I put on about 200-250K miles on a truck before I sell them. Maintenance would be same as any gas truck....water pump, fuel lift pump, tires, shocks, brakes, etc. Diesel trucks cost me less to run and sell for more when I'm done with them and I'm buying them at the same price or pretty close to a V8 upgrade cost.

That's your situation and a diesel makes more sense.

I drive my truck less than 5 miles to work daily. I tow my boat 5 miles to the boat ramp. We take the boat on a bigger trip 4 hrs maybe 3 times a year. I haul 6 engines or so at a time 2x a year to keep my advanced students up on engine repair. I might haul a load of bark dust or gravel once in awhile.

I never said diesel wasn't worth it. No way. I know very well there are people that tow a lot more than I do. However For most people it doesn't make sense. Pay the additional money upfront, pay 60 cents on the dollar more for fuel and just as much for maintenance?

I am also very aware that things would be different if government regs were lifted. Haven't heard of many EB problems and usually I in a position to hear that kind of stuff.

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I dropped my emissions at 5k miles on my Duramax, have 90k on it now and not a single problem. 20+ mpg's and tuned 600+hp and over 1000 ft lb. I don't think a gasoline engine will ever be able to match that kind of number and have durability. My last one had almost 200k on it when I sold it, it had the same reliability. I am definitely excited to see what happens the next couple of years.

Edited by MLBurns
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If I remember right, last months issue said GM owns 50% and Dodge Owns 50% of VM Motori. And this is a bit of interesting read. http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/1311_power_bits_november_2013/

Will we see a same engine offered in two different brand of trucks?

I think Fiat is partial owner of Crysler and VM.

Also heard something on the news a couple days ago that Fiat wants to buy Crysler outright. Makes sense with going with the VM motor over the Cummins.

Edited by gwoods
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Just to add, I am In a "know" position also when It comes to the ecoboost. Not one turbo failure that we have seen or heard of yet.

The biggest issues we have seen with those trucks is the condensation build up in the intercooler and resulting cat. converter failures . I think we have finally got this one whipped though with the last intercooler update.

Other wise as solid of a launch as I can remember in a few decades.

Side note( never had any of the condensation issues with my personal truck since new) .

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Just to add, I am In a "know" position also when It comes to the ecoboost. Not one turbo failure that we have seen or heard of yet.

The biggest issues we have seen with those trucks is the condensation build up in the intercooler and resulting cat. converter failures . I think we have finally got this one whipped though with the last intercooler update.

Other wise as solid of a launch as I can remember in a few decades.

Side note( never had any of the condensation issues with my personal truck since new) .

I heard this update robs some of the performance. Thoughts? (Hi-jack, there's a sweet EB for sale right down the street, 2013, 30k miles, black, "loaded", $32K!!!)

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