02 Sunscape 21 LSV now has manual surf gate

[shawndoggy]

RPM window switch won't really work, the reason being that let's say your surf rpms are like 3200. So you set the gate to deploy there. Chances are while getting out of the hole you will exceed 3200 and the gate will deploy earlier than you'd like. If you are just after manual deploy and retract-on-neutral, the existing lenco trim tab controller would be a way better investment. You can just set the retract signal to throttle neutral instead of key-off.

http://www.amazon.com/123SC-TACTILE-Tilt-Trim-Switch/dp/B001F0OFSM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_6

[Ndawg12]

You wouldn't have the high speed protection of the gates retracting after exceeding 14mph or so but could you set the rpm switch to just cycle as it crosses 1500rpm or so?

[shawndoggy]

You wouldn't have the high speed protection of the gates retracting after exceeding 14mph or so but could you set the rpm switch to just cycle as it crosses 1500rpm or so?

Sure you could. You'd need a couple of timer relays per gate too (one to "push" the deploy button for you once the threshold is passed, the other to push retract). Those timer relays are about $30 apiece for good ones. So once you have $100 into a window switch and another $120 into the timer relays, plus wiring bits, plus diy setup trial and error, etc., that plug and play lenco box with deutsch connectors starts to look real good (but no auto-deploy).

[sledandski]

RPM window switch won't really work, the reason being that let's say your surf rpms are like 3200. So you set the gate to deploy there. Chances are while getting out of the hole you will exceed 3200 and the gate will deploy earlier than you'd like. If you are just after manual deploy and retract-on-neutral, the existing lenco trim tab controller would be a way better investment. You can just set the retract signal to throttle neutral instead of key-off.

http://www.amazon.com/123SC-TACTILE-Tilt-Trim-Switch/dp/B001F0OFSM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_6

You wouldn't have the high speed protection of the gates retracting after exceeding 14mph or so but could you set the rpm switch to just cycle as it crosses 1500rpm or so?

Sure you could. You'd need a couple of timer relays per gate too (one to "push" the deploy button for you once the threshold is passed, the other to push retract). Those timer relays are about $30 apiece for good ones. So once you have $100 into a window switch and another $120 into the timer relays, plus wiring bits, plus diy setup trial and error, etc., that plug and play lenco box with deutsch connectors starts to look real good (but no auto-deploy).

So here is the switch that I was looking at:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8969/overview/

From reading the owners manual it appeared that you could set a window where the switch would be "on". So my thought was to set the switch to turn on at like 2000rpm and then turn off at 4000rpm. This will allow you to idle around, pick up a skier, etc but when you roll the hammer down to pull a surfer you are going to engage the gate at 2000rpm (before you are up to speed) and then if for some reason you leave the gate on and take off to head home or something the gate is going to retract at 4000rpm. I will be the first to say that this is not a completely bullet proof system and I think that a GPS system would be more accurate but $135 for the switch and then a relay to be able to handle the current along with an on / off switch on the dash and I think this would be a cheaper route than the GPS system.

I have not thoroughly explored it but It is an idea.

[sledandski]

Now onto some better news. I got a chance to surf the boat today (its gorgeous up here in the north woods today . Boat surfs awesome!!!! The setup I used was as follows:

600lbs in each rear locker (250MLS + 450lb fat sac next to it filled up about 75% of the way = 600lbs in each locker)

600lb in ski locker (stock MLS)

Wedge down

SG at low setting (about 18deg out from hull according to the calculations last night)

Then I had 5 people in the boat in the following spots:

Wife driving - 125lbs

sister and 2 brothers along port side seat (130lbs + 150lbs + 150lbs = 430lbs)

1 brother in the bow on the port side also (140lbs)

10.7mph

I could ride all the way back on the rope and could basically ride all the way back to where the wake curls over. It is longer than without the SG and I would say the push is just as good if not better.

I originally had my sister up in the bow, and the wave was slightly longer but not much, and with her in the back it was slightly taller. I would say however that the change was minimal. Here are some pics from behind the boat.

My wife and brother both rode the wave and did fine. The transition from the wave is much smoother (do not shove the front end in as quick). My only recommendation is to be careful with how far the gate sticks out and how much bow weight you use. Hope to have some pics from the board when we go out later today along with some goofy pics.

[jcon44]

Wife driving - 125lbs

sister and 2 brothers along port side seat (130lbs + 150lbs + 150lbs = 430lbs)

1 brother in the bow on the port side also (140lbs)

Dude, you need some full sized humans in your crew... or at least ask one of your brother to bring his pot of gold as extra ballast.

Just kidding.. but seriously its really nice to have some 200+ lb'ers to move around.

[shawndoggy]

So here is the switch that I was looking at:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8969/overview/

From reading the owners manual it appeared that you could set a window where the switch would be "on". So my thought was to set the switch to turn on at like 2000rpm and then turn off at 4000rpm. This will allow you to idle around, pick up a skier, etc but when you roll the hammer down to pull a surfer you are going to engage the gate at 2000rpm (before you are up to speed) and then if for some reason you leave the gate on and take off to head home or something the gate is going to retract at 4000rpm. I will be the first to say that this is not a completely bullet proof system and I think that a GPS system would be more accurate but $135 for the switch and then a relay to be able to handle the current along with an on / off switch on the dash and I think this would be a cheaper route than the GPS system.

I have not thoroughly explored it but It is an idea.

So when the switch turns "on" (makes ground) at 2000 rpms it stays on. So if you want the gate to deploy then, then you also need a timer to deploy for 8 seconds or so and shut off. That timer needs to go to a relay (or be a timer relay). It gets more complicated if you also want manual override.

I tried setting this up on a single trim tab in the spring and ended up not really being happy with the idea. With the time and heartache invested, for me (a shadetree hack and no martinarcher by any means) that lenco controller box looks very appealing. The only reason I didn't go that route with my project is that I am using a single (trim) tab, not two gates, and I wasn't aesthetically happy with the double switch that you need to use with the controller box. Vanity!

This is where I was when I finally abandoned the project:

[martinarcher]

Shawn's right, it could certainly work, but I designed my box with a GPS for several reasons, some of which these guys have already mentioned (over speed safety, guaranteed deployment at the correct speed regardless of how high the RPMs get during rider pull up due to throttle being pushed to different positions, no need for timer relays, ability to monitor current when gate is being retracted, ability to substitute paddle wheel speed for GPS speed on cruise systems, easily way to tune and change time actuator will retract and deploy on microSD without buying different timer relays, etc). I do like the ideas, it just seems to have enough limitations that it kind of creates a complicated design in a hurry.

[TrickyNicky]

Shawn's right, it could certainly work, but I designed my box with a GPS for several reasons, some of which these guys have already mentioned (over speed safety, guaranteed deployment at the correct speed regardless of how high the RPMs get during rider pull up due to throttle being pushed to different positions, no need for timer relays, ability to monitor current when gate is being retracted, ability to substitute paddle wheel speed for GPS speed on cruise systems, easily way to tune and change time actuator will retract and deploy on microSD without buying different timer relays, etc). I do like the ideas, it just seems to have enough limitations that it kind of creates a complicated design in a hurry.

Random little hijack. If per say the boat was keyed on (but not engine running) and the last setting was surf, would your gate open when you start driving down the road?

Asking about your control system MA.

[Badger]

Dude, you need some full sized humans in your crew... or at least ask one of your brother to bring his pot of gold as extra ballast.

Just kidding.. but seriously its really nice to have some 200+ lb'ers to move around.

I really did "laugh out loud". I was thinking the same thing though, 2 guys at 150, in the same family in Michigan. I thought we were the fattest state?

Seriously, good work! In my LSV, I seem to get a better wave without the bow ballast. But I'm on a very shallow lake where I'm mainly running 8-9 feet deep. I don't know if that has an effect. Just for simplicity sake, I try to run a 750 in the rear, and ski locker bag filled, wedge down. I'd like to lengthen the wave, because I feel like I'm on top of the platform most of the time. I thought bow ballast would do that, put then it seems like I lose the push.

[TrickyNicky]

I really did "laugh out loud". I was thinking the same thing though, 2 guys at 150, in the same family in Michigan. I thought we were the fattest state?

Seriously, good work! In my LSV, I seem to get a better wave without the bow ballast. But I'm on a very shallow lake where I'm mainly running 8-9 feet deep. I don't know if that has an effect. Just for simplicity sake, I try to run a 750 in the rear, and ski locker bag filled, wedge down. I'd like to lengthen the wave, because I feel like I'm on top of the platform most of the time. I thought bow ballast would do that, put then it seems like I lose the push.

That makes a huge difference. If you have deeper spots, they'll be worth it. I would reckon you could double your wave size/length with the same weight in 20 ft water. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

[martinarcher]

Random little hijack. If per say the boat was keyed on (but not engine running) and the last setting was surf, would your gate open when you start driving down the road?

Asking about your control system MA.

Yep. If in GPS mode it would open when the truck hit the low speed setting and retract after you exceed your high speed setting. Could be entertaining to follow through town.

[TrickyNicky]

Yep. If in GPS mode it would open when the truck hit the low speed setting and retract after you exceed your high speed setting. Could be entertaining to follow through town.

....as it takes out cyclists along its way. I suppose the same could be said for the auto wedge feature OEM to malibu as well.

[sledandski]

Shawn's right, it could certainly work, but I designed my box with a GPS for several reasons, some of which these guys have already mentioned (over speed safety, guaranteed deployment at the correct speed regardless of how high the RPMs get during rider pull up due to throttle being pushed to different positions, no need for timer relays, ability to monitor current when gate is being retracted, ability to substitute paddle wheel speed for GPS speed on cruise systems, easily way to tune and change time actuator will retract and deploy on microSD without buying different timer relays, etc). I do like the ideas, it just seems to have enough limitations that it kind of creates a complicated design in a hurry.

For some reason I thought that the Lenco had limit switches on each end. I double checked and they do not. I was thinking this would get you around the timer issue, but no such luck. I agree it gets more complicated. I am sure I could figure it out but I am going to have to do a bit of research before I start this project. May look into running a PLC instead. My experience with control systems is a bit limited. I understand the theory from school but have not had much in the way of real world applications. Thanks for the input MA.

[sledandski]

Dude, you need some full sized humans in your crew... or at least ask one of your brother to bring his pot of gold as extra ballast.

Just kidding.. but seriously its really nice to have some 200+ lb'ers to move around.

HAHAHA!! That is awesome I told my brothers that last night when I read this on my phone and they laughed. Brothers are 14 and 18 (a bit younger than me to say the least), so they have some time before they put some weight on It does help to have to weight to move around for sure!!!!

[sledandski]

Thought i would add a could more pics. We ran again last night but this time with 8 people in the boat. Ran 2 people in the bow, rest spread out around the boat, made sure it had a port side lean. Also had a chance to surf the goofy side and it worked great too (sorry did not have a chance to get any pics).

Getting the camera turned on

Couple pics from the board

[waynemali]

Looks good and you did a great job. I was curious how much does your gate open up and how much is sticking out past your boat did you end up going?

[CrystalSurf]

Sledandski - Looks good. I've got a couple of questions...

- What are the dimensions of your gate?

- Do the top edge and bottom edge run parallel to each other?

- What is the vertical positioning of the gate on the boat? (i.e., is the bottom edge of the gate at the same height as the chine? If not, how much above or below?)

- From what point on the hull does the gate extend (see attached pic...corner? stern? side?)

Thanks!

[sledandski]

Looks good and you did a great job. I was curious how much does your gate open up and how much is sticking out past your boat did you end up going?

Sledandski - Looks good. I've got a couple of questions...

- What are the dimensions of your gate?

- Do the top edge and bottom edge run parallel to each other?

- What is the vertical positioning of the gate on the boat? (i.e., is the bottom edge of the gate at the same height as the chine? If not, how much above or below?)

- From what point on the hull does the gate extend (see attached pic...corner? stern? side?)

Thanks!

Gate sticking out and gate dimensions: gate is 11.25" tall, 18" long on the top and 15.5" long on the bottom (pic attached). It sticks out at an 18deg angle from the side of the boat (See earlier post). Not sure sure how many inches it sticks out, that is a function of the length and angle.

The top and bottom do run parallel, and the back of the gate is 90deg to both the top and bottom (gate basically started as an 18" x 11.25" rectangle and then I cut one end to match the hull). I used a 1x12 from home depot and simply cut the one end to match the back of the hull.

The bottom of the gate is pretty much follows the bottom of the boat, maybe a 1/2" above where it meets the boat with a slight angle down as it extends out. My goal however was to keep it pretty even with the bottom. The main frame has a 25deg angle (looking at the back of the boat) to match the side of the boat. In other words the compound angle for this is 25deg over (looking at the back) and 18deg out (looking at the top.

hope that helps, feel free to ask if there are more questions!!

I extend like picture B, that is the only way I could make it adjustable. Even if it was fixed I would still recommend this method.

[Slurpee]

I'm so thrilled to see this project come along. Next summer when my boy breaks two i hope to spend some more time getting my version 1.0 evolved. My aerospace engineer father looked at it last year and said, "It's just an asymmetrical wing. Try this." I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with before then! Looks awesome.

[sledandski]

I'm so thrilled to see this project come along. Next summer when my boy breaks two i hope to spend some more time getting my version 1.0 evolved. My aerospace engineer father looked at it last year and said, "It's just an asymmetrical wing. Try this." I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with before then! Looks awesome.

Hey slurpee, glad you saw this. I was going to email you but kept forgetting. Wanted to show you what I ended up with and thanks again for the help. Looking forward to seeing how your design develops.

[macdaddy]

Nice Job...looks great!

[jwl019]

Do you think it would help any if your gate was a little taller (just noticing the spray coming over it in the pics)?

Is the bottom flush with the bottom of the hull?

I am thinking about just throwing something together real fast tomorrow similar to MNHays and was curious to see your thoughts on that?

[Slurpee]

Do you think it would help any if your gate was a little taller (just noticing the spray coming over it in the pics)?

Is the bottom flush with the bottom of the hull?

I am thinking about just throwing something together real fast tomorrow similar to MNHays and was curious to see your thoughts on that?

If its taller, then the spray goes more vertical than horizontal.

[jwl019]

If its taller, then the spray goes more vertical than horizontal.

Thanks, I noticed that today with mine I made that was 14" tall, no spray across the wake.