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02 Sunscape 21 LSV now has manual surf gate


sledandski

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So the wife and I bought this boat in the spring and as a result have gotten to learn the joy of surfing (grew up and had 19' DD boats that do not really surf well). Found that surfing is an awesome when it is too rough for riding much else. So after I saw all the manual SG ideas and projects I had to build my own. I had 2 reasons for doing this:

1. I did not like the boat all leaned over, we play on a couple of big lakes and I was concerned that having the combination of my wife driving, boat leaned over, and some big rollers could result in some close calls. So I really wanted to be able to ride with the boat evenly weighted.

2. My wife rides goofy, so I wanted to be able to change sides.

So after looking through all the cool ideas from everyone and talking a bit with slurpee about his idea I had a couple of requirements for the SG itself:

1. Wanted to be able to use it on both sides

2. Drill minimal holes in the back of the boat and none in the fiberglass (platform / brackets only).

3. Nothing for people to get caught on when swimming or jumping off the platform when off (small kids and friends / their kids).

4. No interference with any other sports when off

5. Ability to fold it pretty close to flat if I wanted for storage in the boat

I originally was going to more or less copy the gate slurpee made, but I made some tweaks. I decided I really wanted the gate to be angles out and this helps with spray issues. Once I made the decision to do this the whole design got a bit more complex. A special thanks to slurpee though for his input and all the dims of his gate. Everything that stays on the boat all of the time is aluminum or ss. The gates themselves are wood, everything else is steel as I do not have the ability to weld aluminum at this time. The 2 main pins that attach the unit to the boat are quick release push pins. Due to the design I had to built 2 gates (the actual board that makes the gate). I also had to build 2 sets of mounting brackets to attach to the boat and I had to drill 3 holes into each of the aluminum swim brackets.

Here is the result, it looked better before I put all the white cords on it so you could not drop any of the pins, but I did not wanting to be dropping anything in the water. Hopefully it gets the idea across.

 

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Edited by sledandski
  • Like 2
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So of course the big question is how well this worked. My first test out did not go so well. The gate did what it needed to do and was rock solid, however the surf wave was very very long, small and had very little push. What I realized was that the gate was sticking out too far and causing the wake to converge too late and making the surf wake go way over the non surf wave. So I screwed both the ball joints on the rear brace in a bit so that rear brace was about 1.5" shorter and then ran a lot of tests. All of these are with just the driver and the boat has the diamond hull. Tomorrow will get some hours with some people behind the boat.

The pics do not do the size of the wave justice, but its pretty dang big, espically when I had 1900lbs in the back. Also it was awesome to see how much bigger the surf wave was in comparison to the non-surf wave. The starboard wave was better than the port because with my weight only in the boat it offset the boat towards that side. The last pic shows the port side wave with an extra 600lbs on the side to list the boat just a little to that side and it really helped the wave. Once I pulled the SG in a bit it really did not make much of a difference between the gate being out or all the way in. I do not have a protractor with my but my original position was a 25deg angle out from the side of the boat, I believe I am running between 17-22 now with low being about 17deg and 22 being hi.

 

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Edited by sledandski
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Thanks. I'll take a pair. :)

haha :) wait until I have a year on it and can perfect it. Once I get it dialed in, I want to build it all out of aluminum / plastic (no wood or steel). Then I need to look at ways to actuate the gate automatically so it retracts for turning easier (not awful now, easier that trying to turn with a boom / footer at idle, but noticeably worse thank without a gate). Will see if that happens, but it is on my mind. Not having the boat leaned over is a ton better.

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ahopkins22LSV

Wakes just look better and better as you scroll down. Looks like it is very well done, nice work!

Edit: I see you are in Grand Rapids. I grew up in that area and still love going home. What lake is that on? By the looks of the water I would say its Lake Michigan but looks quite calm.

Edited by ahopkins1988
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Wakes just look better and better as you scroll down. Looks like it is very well done, nice work!

Edit: I see you are in Grand Rapids. I grew up in that area and still love going home. What lake is that on? By the looks of the water I would say its Lake Michigan but looks quite calm.

I do live in GR, but I am actually on vacation this week with my family on Elk Lake (next to Torch in Traverse City). Gorgeous lakes :)

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I wondered what the red painted parts drying under the tongue in the other thread were.....found them. :) Nice job!

Thanks Martin!! Trust me, I read through what you did more than once as I was thinking about this. I did have a question for you regarding the automation of the SG and the work you have done. Is there a reason you did not try running RPM based instead of GPS based? When I designed this it was with the thought that one day I might automate the retracting and extending of the gate (depending on how bad the steering was). After doing some research I found you can buy RPM switches that have an adjustable window for the switch. Apparently they use them for NOS systems on drag cars. The switches are about $135 and are off the shelf. I was thinking this would be a lot easier to build than the GPS based system. Thoughts??

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ahopkins22LSV

Ah very nice. The lakes are beautiful up there. We go to glen lake and portage lake which isn't quite as far north but still ver nice and is right on l mich.

Sorry to hijack the thread. Just like seeing others from Michigan!

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MalibuNation

Ben,

Nice job on the S G and boy that water looks nice. I'm sure over the winter you'll get the swim platform in tip top shape :)

What did you settle on for a prop or are you using multiple props?

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Thanks Martin!! Trust me, I read through what you did more than once as I was thinking about this. I did have a question for you regarding the automation of the SG and the work you have done. Is there a reason you did not try running RPM based instead of GPS based? When I designed this it was with the thought that one day I might automate the retracting and extending of the gate (depending on how bad the steering was). After doing some research I found you can buy RPM switches that have an adjustable window for the switch. Apparently they use them for NOS systems on drag cars. The switches are about $135 and are off the shelf. I was thinking this would be a lot easier to build than the GPS based system. Thoughts??

Good question, a buddy of mine, who used to work for Epic, brought this to my attention as well.

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Yes please forgive the look of the teak :( this is on my to-do list but the boat has been sitting about an hour away from my house since I bought it making it kind of rough to do much work on it. The plan is to take the whole swim platform off when I put the boat away for winter (going to happen way too soon) and refinish the platform :)

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Awesome.

Wave looks really good. Any reason you don't have bow weight?

Let us know how it surfs! I've seen a number of people talk about a lack of "push" with their homemade gate.

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Do I have some questions.

Perhaps my Ghetto Gate sticks out too far, as I am also having the same issue you had (short and very long wake with not enough push).

Questions:

- If you have a smart phone, can you download a free angle gauge app and find out the exact angle you have your gate set to

- Are you running any bow weight at all? If not, have you tried any?

- I know you are saying 1200 to 1900 in the rear, 600 in the ski locker. What bags are you running? How are you determining the weight?

- All but one of your photos were @ 10.7 MPH. What did the change in speed do?

- How is the push on the wave? Is the push pretty even throughout or is there a significant change when getting closer to the boat?

I had pretty much given up on mine for the year but this thread may have incented me to tweak my Ghetto Gate a little more.

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dude, that's awesome! I have a manual gate that works awesome for me, but it's this lame piece of wood that I strap onto the platform. my wave has plenty of push and I love it!

my original tests were with only ballast in the back of the boat. (750s in each rear locker) and now I've added front ballast and holy smokes! it makes a world of difference. it's a great wave now and tons of fun to play on,.

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dude, that's awesome! I have a manual gate that works awesome for me, but it's this lame piece of wood that I strap onto the platform. my wave has plenty of push and I love it!

my original tests were with only ballast in the back of the boat. (750s in each rear locker) and now I've added front ballast and holy smokes! it makes a world of difference. it's a great wave now and tons of fun to play on,.

Pictures?
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Ben,

Nice job on the S G and boy that water looks nice. I'm sure over the winter you'll get the swim platform in tip top shape :)

What did you settle on for a prop or are you using multiple props?

Jim,

Have not gotten to the prop yet. Once I found that I really liked surfing I wanted to build a SG and understand that before I finalize the ballast system in the boat. Once the ballast system is finalized the prop can come next. I have more than blown my boat budget for the year so I think I am done for this year, but I already have my list for next year :) Next year will be the ballast system and prop along with some other things.

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Awesome.

Wave looks really good. Any reason you don't have bow weight?

Let us know how it surfs! I've seen a number of people talk about a lack of "push" with their homemade gate.

I may try adding some bow weight but here is why it is not in the tests:

- everything I read about weighing the boat with a SG said to be careful as too much bow weight can be detrimental really fast. My theory is that the SG actually helps lengthen the wave because the wake from the other side is not meeting it in the middle anymore and pushing it back.

- I had an issue with my wake being too long already

- Slurpee was running 300lbs in the ski locker and 100lbs in the bow. I figured that my 600 in the locker would be similar

- I left my 4th fat sac at home, so it was going to be a little difficult to add wight. I did at one point leave the drivers seat (boat was going straight by itself) and sat in the very front of the bow. It pulled it down a little bit but not a ton.

My plan was to move some people around once we get to surf it. Today is pretty cold up here so not sure how much surfing were going to be doing

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Do I have some questions.

Perhaps my Ghetto Gate sticks out too far, as I am also having the same issue you had (short and very long wake with not enough push).

Questions:

- If you have a smart phone, can you download a free angle gauge app and find out the exact angle you have your gate set to

- Are you running any bow weight at all? If not, have you tried any?

- I know you are saying 1200 to 1900 in the rear, 600 in the ski locker. What bags are you running? How are you determining the weight?

- All but one of your photos were @ 10.7 MPH. What did the change in speed do?

- How is the push on the wave? Is the push pretty even throughout or is there a significant change when getting closer to the boat?

I had pretty much given up on mine for the year but this thread may have incented me to tweak my Ghetto Gate a little more.

Never thought about the angle finder on the phone. Boat is in the water right now but let me see if that would work. I thought about folding a piece of paper and doing the trig to figure out the angle but decided that was too much work while I was on vacation :)

No bow weight at all (only the 600lbs in the ski locker). The ski locker totally pulls the front down, but not as much as the bow would. I think you need less weight in the bow with the SG. That is just my opinion at this point. I really feel that the SG lengthens the wave a bit so less bow weight is needed. Have not tried any yet, but will move some people up there to see how it works once we get to surf it.

I have the stock MLS (250lb hard tanks on each side in the lockers and 600lb soft tank in the ski locker). For 300lbs in the ski locker I eyeballed the ski locker being about half full, 600lbs in the ski locker was bag full. For the rear I have a pair of flyhigh vdrive sacs that are 450lbs each. I put these in next to the hard tanks and filled them up. They were not 100% full so I am guessing they are about 350lbs. 350lbs + 250lbs = 600lbs on each side for 1200lbs in the lockers. For the additional 700lbs I put a 750 on the back seat and filled it up most of the way, hence 700lbs.

First pic was at 10.3mph. I played around with speed a little bit (not a lot) and 10.3-10.7 did not seem much different. I ran all the other tests at 10.7mph just because that is where we normally surf at and where I think slurpee was running his.

I had the same issue that you had when I first tried surfing this, the wake was crazy long but it had no push at all and I could barely go ropeless on a hyperlite landlock. So I was a bit worried that this whole SG thing was going to be a bust. The thing that made me think about it more was that when slurpee made his gate he used a 25deg angle from the swim platform, not from the side of the hull (hull angle is going to be a lot less like 18deg or so is my guess). So with this in mind I decided to adjust mine in and then see how it worked. Obviously I need to surf this to know for sure, but looking at the wave it looks a bunch bigger and I believe it will have more push.

I will have updates once we surf it

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Pictures?

not to hijack but this helps OP from my bow weight manual gate experimenting.

this is the wave with ghetto gate and 750 port side and 500 starboard side v drive lockers. the locker weight I kept the same the only thing to change was bow weight. this wave looks beautiful but has no push and I couldn't ride it.

IMAG0027.jpg

here's a wave with 400# over the ski locker and ~400# in the bow. it's all washy, but you can ride it till you run outta gas.

IMAG0634.jpg

Link to comment

Do I have some questions.

Perhaps my Ghetto Gate sticks out too far, as I am also having the same issue you had (short and very long wake with not enough push).

Questions:

- If you have a smart phone, can you download a free angle gauge app and find out the exact angle you have your gate set to

- Are you running any bow weight at all? If not, have you tried any?

- I know you are saying 1200 to 1900 in the rear, 600 in the ski locker. What bags are you running? How are you determining the weight?

- All but one of your photos were @ 10.7 MPH. What did the change in speed do?

- How is the push on the wave? Is the push pretty even throughout or is there a significant change when getting closer to the boat?

I had pretty much given up on mine for the year but this thread may have incented me to tweak my Ghetto Gate a little more.

Nitrousbird,

So I did some checking on the angles tonight with an app I was able to put on my phone (great idea by the way). Trying to measure it on the boat did not seem to give accurate results so I went with idea number 2. I held a legal pad up against the side of the boat and over the top of the SG and then marked a line of where the SG was. Then I measured the angle on the back of the legal pad (pic below of the measurement). So there are three holes on my support that holds the SG out with about 3/4" between each of them. At full out I am at 24deg and at full in I am at 18deg with the mid position being 21deg. When I originally set the gate I set it for 25deg and I did that by cutting a piece of wood at 25deg, holding it agains the side of the boat and then eyeballing it to see if the gate and the board were parallel. At this point I am pretty convinced that either my board was not 25 degrees (cut something wrong on the chop saw). I did one crappy job eyeballing it, the difference in measuring things is working against us, or the fact that were talking about a 5 deg difference is simply something that is not measure-able with these tools and a rounded ish boat side.

Lets assume however that my measurements tonight were correct, that would mean that my original settings were about 26-32deg out which was way too much.

Hope that helps. Did not get to surf today b/c it was on the chilly side and windy. Ended up going for a 30 miles ride down through a river to another lake. Hoping to have a chance to ride it tomorrow.

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