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Impossible decisions...


jeepurz

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My brain is officially mush at this point trying to come to a reasonable conclusion. If you may recall, I'm new to the 'Crew, have a line on a classic '88 Skier from a family friend that has been sitting in storage for 7 years, and have found this site to be a phenomenal resource. But I'm at a crossroads. I currently have a family-friendly 21' OB deckboat that I wasn't intending to replace, only complement with a DD for real skiing and occasional wakeboard/surf session. My decision problems are multi-fold. It would take a ton to prep the aged Skier for water duty much less boarding/surfing, AND I'd have two off-water boats with no slip which is a serious waste of financial resources.

So.... the more time I spend on this site and learn about 'bu's, I think I'm sold on a different plan altogether. Scrap the '88 Skier idea(though I like the classic look....), sell my deckboat, and get an LSV. FYI, for usage I'm looking at 30% slalom, 10% teach newbies, 10% boarding, 10% surfing, 40% cruising. hence the desire for a Sunscape diamond hull in the 21'-23' range. But here I come to a new set of mind-melting questions....

  1. '02-04' Sunscape for the shallower draft and good skiing characteristics is a plus
  2. '04 for the gorilla fins is an additional plus
  3. '05 and newer has upside for carrying additional peeps at the cost of draft/weight
  4. '05 newer has the upside of newer and hopefully less wear and tear.
  5. 21' matches current boat size for storage considerations and space
  6. 23' simply has more room for <insert object here> ....
  7. 21' is going to be cheaper
  8. 23' are more plentiful

The prices I'm seeing are all over the board. I'd love to purchase a member boat since the site is stacked with anal maintenance freaks like myself. But we also tend to over estimate the value of our prized possessions.

So it comes to this, does anyone have a '02-'07 Sunscape 21'/23' that they are thinking of selling to upgrade? I'm in southeastern WI, willing to travel some distance for the right boat, willing to pay Nada values + for the right boat, but also keeping this within reason. I'm thinking $19K for '02 21' LSV up to $38K for a '07 23' LSV. I'm willing to buy a boat without ballast/tower and add them as needed since I'm a newbie to boarding/surfing anyhow.

Please help me control the madness and/or purchase a gun(one bullet only....) to end my personal madness trying to figure out what to do....

OK, I'm done with my rant now....

TJ

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Sorry but you will not find an 07 LSV in decent shape for any where near 38k, especially from an anal crew member on here, more like 48-50k. And not many will come without a tower and/or ballast from here. But I agree with your thought process, there's a lot of junk out there being represented as in great condition, I was determined to wait for any respected TMC member's boat to come up for sale that fit my needs. I got lucky and was referred to a boat by a respected TMC member which was the next best thing :thumbup:

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I bought my first Malibu in June after selling my rinker in late May. It was frustrating to me too. I came to realize that it is a sellers market right now with new boat prices going higher and higher and demand for used high.

My experience has taught me to be patient and the right deal will come up. You have a boat, just enjoy it while you shop. I sold my boat a month before a week long vacation on Lake Hamilton. Time wasnt on my side and it just about drove me crazy.

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The '01 23' LSV's I was seeing and debating on before I purchased my 01 VLX were priced at $27-28k. Both were clean and already had ballast, tower, bimini, and cruise. This was about a month and a half ago and have sold. I think if you can wait until after August or September you may can save a little bit since some people don't want to store them over winter.

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Thanks for the input so far. Couple of thoughts below...

Sorry but you will not find an 07 LSV in decent shape for any where near 38k, especially from an anal crew member on here, more like 48-50k. And not many will come without a tower and/or ballast from here. But I agree with your thought process, there's a lot of junk out there being represented as in great condition, I was determined to wait for any respected TMC member's boat to come up for sale that fit my needs. I got lucky and was referred to a boat by a respected TMC member which was the next best thing :thumbup:

The prices I listed are straight off Nada using the "above avg" value, but I'm aware that the average crew member boat is going to be even higher than that, especially if it's already outfitted with ballast/tower. Not as many Sunscapes out there as Wakesetters, at least in my area, so I'm really limiting myself if I'm stuck on the idea of a diamond hull. Even going through the crew galleries, LOTS of wakesetters.... I'm hoping for the same thing where a member is either selling or can at least vouch for a boat.

I bought my first Malibu in June after selling my rinker in late May. It was frustrating to me too. I came to realize that it is a sellers market right now with new boat prices going higher and higher and demand for used high.

My experience has taught me to be patient and the right deal will come up. You have a boat, just enjoy it while you shop. I sold my boat a month before a week long vacation on Lake Hamilton. Time wasnt on my side and it just about drove me crazy.

Patience isn't really a virtue I handle well, I usually set my mind to something and go for it. I'll have read thousands of posts over the last couple of weeks on this site once the bug got into my system. Levi's saga isn't going to happen here, but having an existing boat, albeit not what I really want, at least helps since I can get on the water.

The '01 23' LSV's I was seeing and debating on before I purchased my 01 VLX were priced at $27-28k. Both were clean and already had ballast, tower, bimini, and cruise. This was about a month and a half ago and have sold. I think if you can wait until after August or September you may can save a little bit since some people don't want to store them over winter.

What made you change your mind from LSV to VLX? Were you originally looking for diamond or wake hull, and what did you end up with? Did it just come down to the right boat for the right price?

LOL, good luck finding an '02 21 LSV for 19k that isn't ragged out with no tower.

I'm OK with getting a boat with ballast and tower and paying the extra premium. And pretty sure a 19K boat will need some serious TLC, as that's the Nada lowest value. I simply put a wide range in there knowing that it all comes down to instant gratification with a well maintained boat($$$$$$) or put in some elbow grease after getting a mediocre one($).

TJ

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Thanks for the input so far. Couple of thoughts below...

What made you change your mind from LSV to VLX? Were you originally looking for diamond or wake hull, and what did you end up with? Did it just come down to the right boat for the right price?

The reason I ended up with a 01 Wakesetter VLX was it got down to close to vacation (week at the lake) and I did not want to be without a boat and about to go to the lake again next week. The price difference helped me decide to go ahead and pic it up to, but it needed some TLC when I picked it up and so I busted tail for 2 weeks to get it ready and up to my standards. I can say that this Wakesetter VLX slalom wake is no where near as nice as some of my previous Bu's at 32-34 mph (99 VLX, 01 LXi, 97 LX), so stick with the Diamond hull if slalom is going to be your main priority.

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The reason I ended up with a 01 Wakesetter VLX was it got down to close to vacation (week at the lake) and I did not want to be without a boat and about to go to the lake again next week. The price difference helped me decide to go ahead and pic it up to, but it needed some TLC when I picked it up and so I busted tail for 2 weeks to get it ready and up to my standards. I can say that this Wakesetter VLX slalom wake is no where near as nice as some of my previous Bu's at 32-34 mph (99 VLX, 01 LXi, 97 LX), so stick with the Diamond hull if slalom is going to be your main priority.

Great info. I've been reading posts all morning(work, what work....) and I think I need to open up my options. When I say slalom, I've never run a course and I currently ski behind a deckboat with an outboard. Which is like auto-crossing an International dump truck if you think about it. So if the wake hull is mediocre for "real" skiers, then I'm probably going to wet myself in excitement compared to what I have now. This would significantly open up my options in the number of boats available, and allow me to scrutinize quality more since the options are greater.

Any thoughts?

TJ

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Thanks for the input so far. Couple of thoughts below...

The prices I listed are straight off Nada using the "above avg" value, but I'm aware that the average crew member boat is going to be even higher than that, especially if it's already outfitted with ballast/tower. Not as many Sunscapes out there as Wakesetters, at least in my area, so I'm really limiting myself if I'm stuck on the idea of a diamond hull. Even going through the crew galleries, LOTS of wakesetters.... I'm hoping for the same thing where a member is either selling or can at least vouch for a boat.

NADA doesn't mean much (if anything) these days when it comes to these boats. The used market is really hot and you should be expecting to pay more than high NADA across the board, crew member or not.

Patience isn't really a virtue I handle well, I usually set my mind to something and go for it. I'll have read thousands of posts over the last couple of weeks on this site once the bug got into my system. Levi's saga isn't going to happen here, but having an existing boat, albeit not what I really want, at least helps since I can get on the water.

What made you change your mind from LSV to VLX? Were you originally looking for diamond or wake hull, and what did you end up with? Did it just come down to the right boat for the right price?

I'm OK with getting a boat with ballast and tower and paying the extra premium. And pretty sure a 19K boat will need some serious TLC, as that's the Nada lowest value. I simply put a wide range in there knowing that it all comes down to instant gratification with a well maintained boat($$$$$$) or put in some elbow grease after getting a mediocre one($).

TJ

NADA doesn't mean much (if anything) these days when it comes to these boats. The used market is really hot and you should be expecting to pa more than high NADA across the board. Also you are not limited to sunscapes for diamond hulls. Wakesetters are available on diamond hulls as well although it is an option. it is a fairly popular option so don't steer away from wakesetters just check if they have a diamond hull.

Edited by TrickyNicky
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Great info. I've been reading posts all morning(work, what work....) and I think I need to open up my options. When I say slalom, I've never run a course and I currently ski behind a deckboat with an outboard. Which is like auto-crossing an International dump truck if you think about it. So if the wake hull is mediocre for "real" skiers, then I'm probably going to wet myself in excitement compared to what I have now. This would significantly open up my options in the number of boats available, and allow me to scrutinize quality more since the options are greater.

Any thoughts?

TJ

Its more like autocrossing in a crown vic. Skiing behind a 23 LSv wake hull would be more like the dump truck. Your deck boat may be big, but it has trim and the wake is not designed to be firm and shape. A VLX or LSV is designed to put out a big and HARD wake, it can be virtually unskiable with skill or not so research and know your options.

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Whats your crew size? I think you should be looking at VLX's on a diamond hull. (sunscape wakesetter). An '01 sunsetter VLX diamond would be right up your alley but they can be tough to find.

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Great info. I've been reading posts all morning(work, what work....) and I think I need to open up my options. When I say slalom, I've never run a course and I currently ski behind a deckboat with an outboard. Which is like auto-crossing an International dump truck if you think about it. So if the wake hull is mediocre for "real" skiers, then I'm probably going to wet myself in excitement compared to what I have now. This would significantly open up my options in the number of boats available, and allow me to scrutinize quality more since the options are greater.

Any thoughts?

TJ

Whichever hull you get will be better than a deck boat I am almost positive! Now if you could find 2 crew members up there that have both hulls, you could get a good quick comparison to see which one you prefer or which is suitable to you and if no one is close it would be worth a drive to meet up with one to go ski a quick set behind a wake hull, and if the wake hull is fine for you, then if you just happen to run across a diamond hull it will be like hitting a gold mine!

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Great info. I've been reading posts all morning(work, what work....) and I think I need to open up my options. When I say slalom, I've never run a course and I currently ski behind a deckboat with an outboard. Which is like auto-crossing an International dump truck if you think about it. So if the wake hull is mediocre for "real" skiers, then I'm probably going to wet myself in excitement compared to what I have now. This would significantly open up my options in the number of boats available, and allow me to scrutinize quality more since the options are greater.

Any thoughts?

TJ

Maybe I'm the only one the TMC that isn't a tournament skier, but I love the ski wake on my 23 LSV. I hear people talking about how hard and awful the wake is and it blows my mind. I came out of a 21 ft 1981 Gulfstream I/O. It had such a large, hard wake that when I came back across the wake I would literally land in the flats on the other side (still can't do this on wakeboard). I have skied behind DD's and can run a course at 15' off and 31mph and while they do have amazing wakes I was more than happy with the wake hull on our last boat as a family guy just doing free skiing while we are out. We did get the diamond hull on the new boat and I can tell a difference between the 2, but not such a huge difference that it would be a determining factor for me if I were to buy a different boat.

You should try to get out and see it for your self, but I think you will be plenty happy with the wake hull for skiing.

Edited by vaporbluebu
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If you search long enough you will find what your looking for.I picked up my 07 23 for 41,500.last april. It had 270 hrs and the guy gave me everything he had with it.5 wakeboards,tubes,2 surfboards and a wake skate,and every extra thing he had ever bought for it.I jumped on that thing as fast as i could.i had to take a day off work to drive and get it because he said somebody was gonna drive from utah and pick it up.I havent seen another deal like i got but they pop up once in a while.Guess it was my lucky day on craigslist.

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Whats your crew size? I think you should be looking at VLX's on a diamond hull. (sunscape wakesetter). An '01 sunsetter VLX diamond would be right up your alley but they can be tough to find.

Crew size is small, again this boat won't see x-games style action much, with lots of cruising. I'll keep an eye out for several models, as long as it's a diamond hull.

Whichever hull you get will be better than a deck boat I am almost positive! Now if you could find 2 crew members up there that have both hulls, you could get a good quick comparison to see which one you prefer or which is suitable to you and if no one is close it would be worth a drive to meet up with one to go ski a quick set behind a wake hull, and if the wake hull is fine for you, then if you just happen to run across a diamond hull it will be like hitting a gold mine!

See, this is the part that I'm having a hard time qualifying. Comments like a VLX wake hull will be very hard to ski, etc... c'mon, worse than my cheapo Starcraft deckboat? To one person, a certain wake would be absurd to ski behind, i.e: a competitive skier on a course running 39 off. Let's be clear, that's NOT me.... :)

I'm going to try finding some locals to see some things in person.

Are those NADA values including trailer?

I have always made an assumption that they do. Going back to other boats I've purchased. But I could be totally off on that one.

Maybe I'm the only one the TMC that isn't a tournament skier, but I love the ski wake on my 23 LSV. I hear people talking about how hard and awful the wake is and it blows my mind. I came out of a 21 ft 1981 Gulfstream I/O. It had such a large, hard wake that when I came back across the wake I would literally land in the flats on the other side (still can't do this on wakeboard). I have skied behind DD's and can run a course at 15' off and 31mph and while they do have amazing wakes I was more than happy with the wake hull on our last boat as a family guy just doing free skiing while we are out. We did get the diamond hull on the new boat and I can tell a difference between the 2, but not such a huge difference that it would be a determining factor for me if I were to buy a different boat.

You should try to get out and see it for your self, but I think you will be plenty happy with the wake hull for skiing.

Thanks, this is the kind of real world interpretation I'm looking for. I'm not trying to use other's comments to justify my pre-bias, it just seems like your experience is closer to what I'd expect than say someone that's skied behind a DD for they entire lives and can't imagine getting tugged behind anything else.

Thanks again to everyone for comments so far!

TJ

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I think the verdict here is you need to go ski behind the boats before you drive them. I disagree with many of the wake hull vs outboard comments here and that is entirely based on my experience, and clearly there experience behind an outboard was worse than mine, so test them and let us know what you are happy with. Personally I cringe watching any newer skiers trying to cross the wake at under 30 mph behind the best skiing v-drive available.

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