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Spend the money !


Dave K

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I have the 2 rear hard tanks in the back of my '06VLX and have added 2 750's. Because of the limited room for additional aerator pumps down beside the tranny, I have decided to go with the reversible pumps. I was planning to run 2 pumps off of 1- 1" thu hull

Couple of Q's,

1. What is the pump most buy, Jabsco or Johnson?? Is it worth spending the extra money for the Jabsco if fill time is not a huge issue?

2. Is it advisable to mount these pumps as close to the thu-hull as possibly or does it matter?

3. When using the reversible pumps, do you need a vent loop, or will the impeller prevent the bag from draining?

Thanks

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1. I went with the Jabsco because it came with the switch prewired. Most say they fill about the same because you are limited by the size of the hose.

http://www.bakesonline.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=525

Also may want the get the switch caps.

http://www.bakesonline.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=638

2 Don't think it matters. Place I put them. Under the back right corner.

IMG_0471.jpg

3 I add them if I had to do it again I would add unless I need them (started having problems) save the money. I would just make a loop and run my hoses up high. Instead of having the loop I would have just ran the hoses like this.

IMG_0478.jpg

Also you need to add shut off valves and you may want to make it so you can see it come out the side and know when it is empty. You will need a T and some check valves with a little search you should be able to find i diagram.

IMG_0488.jpg

IMG_0489.jpg

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Great googly moogly, Gus!!! And we wonder why there is no foam flotation left in our boats. All the room is taken up by ballast tanks and ballast plumbing.

And at the risk of sounding ignorant....what is an aerator pump, exactly?

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The googly moogly is 15ft of hose that makes it so I can put a sack any place in the boat I want and fill with the reversible pump. you can see the Y valves thats what they are for I also have a line like that in the front hidden. Fill the back then pull hose out and fill a sack on the floor. GO BIG OR GO HOME!!!! :rockon:

To your question.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=2924

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- Buy whichever pump is cheaper

- Doesn't really matter where you mount the pump, just don't mount it with the motor upside down

- Vented loop is a waste of money, as is wasting hose by making it go up high and back down.

- I would run separate intakes for each pump

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1. What is the pump most buy, Jabsco or Johnson?? Is it worth spending the extra money for the Jabsco if fill time is not a huge issue?

I had to use Jabscos to mount in the back seats on my 98 VLX because the Johnsons were too tall to fit in there with the seats on. Otherwise there's only some $ difference they both are amazing. Green Impellers for the jabsco work great no problems so far.

2. Is it advisable to mount these pumps as close to the thu-hull as possibly or does it matter?

Another nice aspect of the impeller pumps, they don't have priming issues, I've never had an issue. The impeller pump is basically a check valve as no water gets past it for the most part, mine hold the pressure of 750# of water in the system just fine. You should still always have a ball valve on the thru hull as another security in case anything happens elsewhere in the system.

3. When using the reversible pumps, do you need a vent loop, or will the impeller prevent the bag from draining?

Vented loops aren't needed with the impeller pump setup. Neither are check valves on the fill/drain line. The only place you need to consider check valves is on the vent lines. so that it doesn't introduce excess air into the system and allows the pumps to "pancake" the sacs dry.

It is possible to run two off of one thru hull, but it will be a little slower and you will be slowed down even more when you try to drain one and fill the other like many do in a surfing setup situation. But, can't say it isn't possible.

Wakemakers has a couple different valves for teeing off of one thru hull but that only allows you to fill one of the bags at a time for the most part and would've only required one pump IMO. But the two pumps off of one thru hull has been done. http://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard-ballast-parts/anti-siphon-check-valves

If I were doing it, (which I just did) I'd put in a new thru hull. It wasn't much at all, I just installed 2 - 1" intakes for my 2 jabsco pumps.

Just make sure you know what you're doing before you drill, but FWIW it's totally worth it. people are always complainnig about how slow their systems are. my ballast system is pretty, and I'm happy.

Another great reference is the guys at wakemakers they are good to work with and can tell you everything you need for what you're trying to do.

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There was an article in BoatUS or one of the other rags I get about pumps. It tested a bunch of them with their rated flow and real world flow. IF I remember right, the Tsunami (Jabsco??) was the best buy.

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that's if you want to go the aerator pump way, sure they say they've got more GPH. but they're a pain in the a** for priming (sometimes), and you also have to mount them at the thru hull, where there isn't always a ton of room for mounting all of these pumps. (especially in older model BUs) Plus, you have multiple areas of your system to fail. fill and drain each have their own pump. when if the impeller pump isn't working you know where your flow problem is essentially.

draining/filling out the bottom is more efficient. and works great to suck ballast sacs dry.

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Have Johnson and would not trade them for the Jabsco's - had a good experience with them so far. Wakemakers now sells a wiring harness that plugs into the back of the rocker switch. Much cleaner and easier to work with than the pre wired switch that comes with Jabsco.

I would really consider drilling one hole for each pump (3/4") is plenty. That 1" hardware gets really bulky down there in the bilge area. Plus you can fill one sac while draining the other sac for surfing. You also wont need any check valves or T's to mess with b/t the pump and the bag. By the time you add in the check valves, the 1" hardware and the T's...I doubt you are saving much at all when compared to doing it with 2 3/4" thru hulls.

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or you could save the money and just wire the switches up yourself, it costs about $4 a switch and saves you all that money, that's what I did. it's not hard and if you're scraping the bucket for $$ there's nothing wrong with taking a couple minutes to save ~$16.

I always was listening to the argument on limiting the flow of water in the system, the system is only as fast as the point where it's choked the most.

At 3/4" the thru hull is limited to 1,440 GPH but at 1" the thru hull is limited to 2,200 GPH. almost double! Do the calculations, what's it worth to ya.

that's all it's going to come down to. make it worth it for you. instead of cutting a 1 1/8" hole for the 3/4" you'd be making a 1 5/16" hole for 1".

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or you could save the money and just wire the switches up yourself, it costs about $4 a switch and saves you all that money, that's what I did. it's not hard and if you're scraping the bucket for $$ there's nothing wrong with taking a couple minutes to save ~$16.

I always was listening to the argument on limiting the flow of water in the system, the system is only as fast as the point where it's choked the most.

At 3/4" the thru hull is limited to 1,440 GPH but at 1" the thru hull is limited to 2,200 GPH. almost double! Do the calculations, what's it worth to ya.

that's all it's going to come down to. make it worth it for you. instead of cutting a 1 1/8" hole for the 3/4" you'd be making a 1 5/16" hole for 1".

What are you talking about....the fittings on the pump at 3/4" and these pumps do 700 GPH. For one pump 3/4" thru is more than double what the pump can do. So based on what you said it makes no sense to go with anything larger than 3/4" for a single pump

No math needed...

Actually I am wrong - the internal diameter of the threaded portion of the pump is 1/2"....even more reason that 3/4" fittings are perfectly fine..

Edited by Murphy8166
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What are you talking about....the fittings on the pump at 3/4" and these pumps do 700 GPH. For one pump 3/4" thru is more than double what the pump can do. So based on what you said it makes no sense to go with anything larger than 3/4" for a single pump

No math needed...

Actually I am wrong - the internal diameter of the threaded portion of the pump is 1/2"....even more reason that 3/4" fittings are perfectly fine..

I'm thinking in terms of filling and draining at the same time. no clarification, my bad.

I don't know that calculation, but I know it will affect it. if you're trying to fill and drain out of one hole at the same time you're going to run into interference and that intake being larger would only help that. for a little bit of size, the flow is increased by almost double was the point of the 2,200 1,440 comparison.

FWIW I started with 2 Jabscos off of one 3/4" garboard drain and a t off of the intake which sent the 3/4" to 1" to the pumps to 1" to the bags. This was slow! and wouldn't empty the bags the way I wanted. since I had a T it was okay for filling and draining at the same time, but if you use a Y which works much better it doesn't allow filling and draining to be as easy (in my experience)

at the start of this year, I put in 2 - 1" thru hull intakes myself and put the t-handle plug back on my garboard drain.

now the system is so fast, I'm startled when they're already full.

there's no use in fighting an intake like that. give it the space it needs for a minimal change IMO. the 1" isn't much bigger.,

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Thanks everyone.

For now because will have a big weekend coming up, I will temporary hooked up a 5 ft chunk of hose with a pump on the end and wired it direct to the switches to fill. I'll have to open the rear hatch and throw that pump overboard for now, but at least it's semi-auto. My 2 750's at the back are wired, plumbed for vent and for draining with a aerator pump already so it shouldn't be too bad.

As for the reversible, my plan is to mount 1 behind the rear seat (VLX) and bring the hose up along inside of the port side seats OR above fuel tank and up thru the starboard helm area... and come out one of these.

port_zps9c44e5ec.jpg

I'll have enough extra hose to fill 1 of 2 different bags. When not in use I can pull hose back under seats.

The reversible pumps just seem to be too easy to install. 1 hose for fill and empty, and really if needed a fly high vent plug.

My list to plumb a Johnson reversible:

1- 3/4"thru hull,

emerg shut off,

1- 3/4"male thread to 3/4"barbed fitting,

1- pump,

1- pre wired switch connector,

hose,

1- W742 quick disconnect

1- W736 quick connect

(Did I miss anything?)

So... with the MLS hard tanks I have:

REAR:

400 lbs 200 per side (?) in rear

2 750's in rear lockers,

FRONT:

1 500 lbs in floor up front,

Pro X Series Tube Sac 370 lbs under the bow insert/walk way.

I don't think I'll have enough weight up front. We were previously using a 500 sumo on the bow seats, so I'm thinking we may need the 1000# triangle.

ANY THOUGHTS on the weight or should I say lack of weight up front?

Edited by Dave K
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What are you talking about....the fittings on the pump at 3/4" and these pumps do 700 GPH. For one pump 3/4" thru is more than double what the pump can do. So based on what you said it makes no sense to go with anything larger than 3/4" for a single pump

No math needed...

Actually I am wrong - the internal diameter of the threaded portion of the pump is 1/2"....even more reason that 3/4" fittings are perfectly fine..

This is true. The biggest factor in flow ( gpm ) is the friction loss in the hose. Size and length. The size of the thru hull has very little effect.

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I huge problem I'm going to have with more thru hulls is NO ROOM to put them in.

I have 2 for the factory Piranha's,

1 for the bag/s in bow.

I still need room for 2 more additional pumps for the 2 750's I have???

Through transom???

Do you guys use glue together fPVC fittings or threaded? I am finding with the threaded it rescricts a lot because of no room to screw pumps in???

photo_zps021d8eb7.jpg

Edited by Dave K
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Can you put them further back? Or what about putting the system together to run more than one bag per pump. It's not the most ideal setup but it works well for me and many others.

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Can you put them further back? Or what about putting the system together to run more than one bag per pump. It's not the most ideal setup but it works well for me and many others.

That seems to the best location. I'm going to pull off the engine/compartment divider this weekend to have a good look and try to dry fit some fittings. If others put pumps that far back I should be able to as well, unless there is a difference from my '06 VLX to some of the newer boats. I want the shut off easily accessible for emergencies, so I may have to take a rod and attach to the shut off handle? Anyone do anything like that?

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Q. I still don't know which pump to buy, BUT theoretically the further the pump is away from the thru hull water intake the longer the pumps impeller rotates without water until the pump draws the water up. And the water acts like a lubricant,.... so wouldn't the impeller get wrecked quick because its dry, or is it just irrelevant??

Edited by Dave K
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Q. I still don't know which pump to buy, BUT theoretically the further the pump is away from the thru hull water intake the longer the pumps impeller rotates without water until the pump draws the water up. And the water acts like a lubricant,.... so wouldn't the impeller get wrecked quick because its dry, or is it just irrelevant??

not completely irrelevant, but mine stay wet. you can always just leave water in the system if you use it more than occasionally. that's what I do at least. if you're using impeller pumps there's plenty of places to place the pumps that can be close enough to the intake and feed a bag anywhere in the boat. I currently have a jabsco ballast puppy under my port side rear seat and it runs 20' of hose through the boat to fill my bow sac. no problems whatsoever and the pump is close enough to the intake that I don't even bother worrying about the impeller. I'll pull them at season end to inspect, but other than that I have no problems unless I have to chase down a kink in a hose if I ever experience slow filling/draining.

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