Surf Gate - My experience - not impressed.

[saidainc]

We are having great success with surf gate on our VLX recently. I've found that full stock ballast, maybe 500 lbs pnp in each rear locker, wedge up a few clicks up from bottom, and 10.4 mph is producing an amazing wave when we have 5 or 6 people in the boat with 1 or 2 people sitting in the bow. With the 2315 prop, the engine is running at 3050 rpms. I've been surprised just how much one or two clicks of wedge can affect the wave push.

Ive never understood the wedge clicks up thing. We have it slammed and that seems to be the only way the wave develops on our MXZ. Is it different for different hull shapes?

[Cory]

We started out this summer without using any wedge and all ballast. We were putting too much in the rear lockers which maxed out the engine and resulted in a less desirable wave. I don't know why more ballast and no wedge is not giving us the results we are getting with less ballast and wedge a few clicks up from bottom. But my wave today was the best I've ever surfed.

[Cory]

It has basically taken half a summer for us to figure out how to weight the boat and properly use surfgate. I was happy before, but not thrilled. After the last couple weeks I am a true believer.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Cory

[CJAY]

If you rode SG on an MXZ, then yes I'd agree with you it's a soft wave. I know that it should be able to be dialed in, but when we demoed an MXZ last fall the SG surf wave was terrible. I couldn't even stay in the pocket, my wife could, but she even said it took more work than it should. I was a little standoffish until I tried behind a well dialed LSV, and holy crap that wave had more push than I'd been on, and that was with 2 people int he boat.

[jk13]

Just to lighten things up from someone who's never surfed any wave other than the ocean:

My son and I stopped by a dealer the other day and drooled over a black/white met. green VTX and a black/white/met. grey VLX with the 409 and SG much like -BS- did. Just looking around in awe of the new boats proud to have something with the same name on it. As we were leaving we started talking about SurfGate and what it does, then what those without it have done for years to surf behind the boat. His last comment as we were leaving the dealership?

"Silly rich people."

First world problems indeed. Get out there and enjoy your boats guys--tilted or level.

[NorrisMike]

SURFGATE = BEST IMPROVEMENT TO BOATING SINCE THE INVENTION OF THE RUDDER!

[Afun]

+ 1 on Mr. Norris Post

[Bawshogg]

+ 1 on Mr. Norris Post

Did not read the sarcasm in that post? LOL

[Afun]

Did not read the sarcasm in that post? LOL

I guess I did not pick up on the sarcasm. I am truly enjoying surfgate. I have yet to go out there with 550's installed. Can't wait!

[Tyger]

I've been traveling a lot so I came to this thread late. There's been a lot of, um, emotion, flying around, so I debated about chiming in at all, but I did want to voice my opinion and share some details.

This is a stock 2013 LSV with SG. Three people in the boat and no PnP:

http://youtu.be/5gTkJaHYKFY

Is it what I would call a great wake? No. From my experience with my 3 boats I agree with many people that the stock surf wake on any boat is not great. However, this is a wake-to-wake transition on our board with the least amount of push which really says something. It is a good wake and if you want the ability to surf occasionally, it might be good for you.

This is me riding behind the same boat with an additional 1500# of PnP:

http://youtu.be/GmNI_2UguTc

This is still not what I would a great wake. It's got a relatively short pocket and it's not clean at all. However, I posted it to show that you can easily ride an SG without a surf style board with a setup that's a breeze for anyone.

I don't think anyone can say that my reviews have been anything but fair. It's been a struggle to get as good of a wake as I had on my last boat listed, let alone a better one. This is due to SG being new, the 24 MXZ, the MXZ style being new to me and a 24 being new to me. It's been very frustrating, including the start of our last time out.

I have been wanting to get some custom sacs made, but after not being happy with using someone else's design on our 23, I wanted to be absolutely sure I got what I wanted. So I measured, and I measured and I measured. :D Since our boat is stored 70 miles from the house, I made 3 separate trips to dealer to measure a 24 MXZ on the showroom floor. I now have twin sacs that add about 1200# each to the boat. I want to spend 1 or 2 more trips to the lake before I post a full write-up. However, once we got it dialed everyone agreed it was the biggest, longest wake we had ever ridden and I'm not done yet.

There is no doubt in my mind that SG is a great innovation in wakesurfing. However, it is absolutely not the be all, end all surf feature and I've said as much before. There's no reason it couldn't work with and be enhanced by the gravity ballast and wake shaping features that are also coming to market. I hope Malibu is continuing to work on improving the SG and adding these other features. However, I don't see any other system currently marketed being able to switch sides as fast as the SG is capable of. Larry Mann's concept could, in theory.

I do think F-Man nailed it: people on this thread who are generally negative about SG are not SG owners and people who are generally favorable are SG owners.

I'm still not there with our wake, but it does seem as though the SG needs more weight to produce the same wake as a listed boat. This makes logical sense, because you are trying to sink a larger percentage of the boat into the water. However, there are a lot of benefits to a level boat, even though it's carrying more weight. Those little benefits add up to a lot and I think that's why people who own one think it's a must-have for the price.

I dare someone to get the same quality/size wake out of a surfgate boat with no exposed sacs.

Dare accepted.

[Fman]

Id day that's over-simplifying it to say the least Fman. The people who "don't like it" (or think the jury is still out) have, let me repeat...... have ridden the wave....and in some cases CHOSE not to buy it after doing so. And in most of those cases (in this thread anyway) the guys were very experienced surfers.

You say this thread is a joke bc people who have SG love it and those that dont have it, dont like it. So what do you think our motive is in saying 'the SG waves are soft?". What are you implying? That we're just jealous? I walked thru, around, on and in every inch of a 2013 22MXZ the other day. I have absolutely no problem saying I was blown away. The thing was absolutely bada$$. I sat in that thing for 30 minutes just smiling in admiration. Sounds weird maybe, but it made me proud to be a Malibu owner. That said, why would I NOT say the same thing about SG? Why?

Trust me.... I WANT to find out SG can produce the type of high-performance wave I prefer. I really do. (Why wouldn't I???)

Oh and yes, I agree 110%........The videos do not lie. They all (besides RayRay's) clearly show the same thing.

And RAYRAY: I meant to ask earlier.....what board were you riding and how much do you weigh?

My reply has nothing to do with me thinking anyone is "jealous" for not having Surfgate. There is just a pattern developing of people who do not like surfgate and people who are enjoying the heck out of it. I can only speak for what I have experienced this year with it.... 120 hours with it this season and we have been surfing a lot, 30+ riders behind my boat, from the newbee to the vetern, a handful of them own different boat makes. Not one person had an issue with the wake, other than how easy it was to go ropeless with great push, nice transition, switch sides with different riders, sit comfortably in the boat, etc.. all of them are blown away with how SG even works. Is my boat producing a world class, massive 247 slammed wave? no, is it a wake that can be carved up, ridden 15 feet behind the boat, you can shoot up and down the wave, great push, with all hidden ballast filled in 4 mins or less? yes. Is it a very nice surf wake for a 21' boat? yes. Everyone has different expectations of what type of wave they desire. I have yet to see even the largest wakes from traditional weighted 247 owners with people performing insane world class surfing tricks, kind of like someone with a G23 wakeboard wake not being able to pull double flips, and insane inverts. Not that they are not out there, but probably in the very small percentage.

I truly believe there are many people using SG that have no idea how to weight the boat properly. Its much different than traditional surfing. I did a lot of research, talked to Malibu reps before I even had my boat delivered to get recommendations of how it should be weighted, speed, wedge position etc. I am still tweaking the wake and finding different options that work better than others.

As far as the videos are concerned, if IXFEs wake he posted is not desirable for you, then yes, we definitely have different expectations of what type of wake we are looking for. His wake looks great to me, very similar to what my boat is producing. I want something with good push, I can play around on, and is easy to dial in and create quickly switching from a different discipline. I am not or ever will be a professional surfer pulling aired out ali's and aired out 180's/360's like a pro rider. The wake my VLX is producing imo is everything I was looking for in a surf wake, with simple functionality with surfgate that makes setting up our surf sessions simple and quick with no headaches.

To each is own, I will stand behind SG as an awesome feature to have on any boat, and have nothing but great things to say about it.

[pkh]

I would say I have had similar experience to Fman (though I am only at 110 hours not 120 )

Rather than continue this silly thread check out my review of my boat which includes my personal take on SG vs. listed wave including pics!

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/43009-2013-23-lsv-review/

and also my current SG ballast setup and lots more wave pics:

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/42401-23-lsv-surf-gate-setup/

I doubt the debate on SG waves will be over anytime soon, but hopefully this thread will be. I mod a forum myself, and when things get this heated I usually lock it up. Just my 2 cents.

[RayRay]

BS

It's a custom Soulcraft. 5 foot, 5 fin setup ( I like a quad), S Glass. I run the largest blackstixx future fins with either pivot fins or nubsters as the trailers. I weight about 210 - 215.

[isellacuras]

I don't have surfgate so I think my listed boat wave is the best. I wish I could have afforded a surf gate boat so I could think the surfgate wave is better. I love me some surfing. I am not opening this thread again.

[Bawshogg]

Dare accepted.

Your a brave soul. Didn't anyone tell you MXZ's surf like poo before you bought one?

You got a long road ahead of you.

[Bawshogg]

My reply has nothing to do with me thinking anyone is "jealous" for not having Surfgate. There is just a pattern developing of people who do not like surfgate and people who are enjoying the heck out of it. I can only speak for what I have experienced this year with it.... 120 hours with it this season and we have been surfing a lot, 30+ riders behind my boat, from the newbee to the vetern, a handful of them own different boat makes. Not one person had an issue with the wake, other than how easy it was to go ropeless with great push, nice transition, switch sides with different riders, sit comfortably in the boat, etc.. all of them are blown away with how SG even works. Is my boat producing a world class, massive 247 slammed wave? no, is it a wake that can be carved up, ridden 15 feet behind the boat, you can shoot up and down the wave, great push, with all hidden ballast filled in 4 mins or less? yes. Is it a very nice surf wake for a 21' boat? yes. Everyone has different expectations of what type of wave they desire. I have yet to see even the largest wakes from traditional weighted 247 owners with people performing insane world class surfing tricks, kind of like someone with a G23 wakeboard wake not being able to pull double flips, and insane inverts. Not that they are not out there, but probably in the very small percentage.

I truly believe there are many people using SG that have no idea how to weight the boat properly. Its much different than traditional surfing. I did a lot of research, talked to Malibu reps before I even had my boat delivered to get recommendations of how it should be weighted, speed, wedge position etc. I am still tweaking the wake and finding different options that work better than others.

As far as the videos are concerned, if IXFEs wake he posted is not desirable for you, then yes, we definitely have different expectations of what type of wake we are looking for. His wake looks great to me, very similar to what my boat is producing. I want something with good push, I can play around on, and is easy to dial in and create quickly switching from a different discipline. I am not or ever will be a professional surfer pulling aired out ali's and aired out 180's/360's like a pro rider. The wake my VLX is producing imo is everything I was looking for in a surf wake, with simple functionality with surfgate that makes setting up our surf sessions simple and quick with no headaches.

To each is own, I will stand behind SG as an awesome feature to have on any boat, and have nothing but great things to say about it.

Watch this. One of our own

http://slayshtank.com/malibuwakesurfing-11219/

[Fman]

Chase Hazen is a pro surfer, I would love to see what he could do behind a smaller wave (IXFEs size) for comparison in his riding. No doubt, that wave is massive.

[wakebrdr94]

the dude could ride a ripple. what does he weigh, a buck 20? but in the meantime, how's this?

http://vimeo.com/69493866

Edited August 6, 2013 by wakebrdr94

[nyryan2001]

I am about as critical as they come, especially when it comes to surf waves. I'm a believer in in for certain models.

I have seen the SG turn a 350 23LSV into a boat that would be a BLAST to own and surf, that I would have otherwise never even given a second of consideration. I think it's the most overlooked boat in the lineup value wise, with VLXs now knocking on the $80k threshold. That wave I believe was near impossible prior to SG on that boat.

There is little dispute in the value of having a more level boat for most folks. No dispute in the value of quick switches when you have 4-7 folks and a mix of goofy/regular.

Some folks don't like the shape and characteristics of the SG wave. Understandable. Some guys don't need to change sides. Understandable also.

Enzo? Maybe the 24ft one... But I would choose a 247 or a 23LSV with SG ALL DAY over a 23 Enzo. Depends what type of wave you are after, I like the tummy high 247 type wave.

[Fman]

That is a great looking SG wave, and I love the wake transfers, those guys are killing it.

[Bawshogg]

So the moral of this novel is............Surfgate...........BUY IT, YOU'LL LIKE IT.....

Don't try it first or you may not like it.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[WakeGirl]

Look, this has turned into exactly every other wake discussion that I've ever seen about wake preference, whether it's wakeboarding or surfing. I can't tell you how many times over the years that I've seen this play out, exactly like this. I like it steep, I like it rampy, I like it a little soft, no firmer, I need more transition, I want some lip at the top, blah blah blah. Some people have the attitude that "stock is good enough for me", while others that want to push the envelope complain that it's not a "pro level" wake or whatever. It's especially comparable to the arguments that I've seen over the years with regard to use of the wedge vs. no use of the wedge.

So I would say that the moral of the story is this: you guys all have fantastic boats that are capable of giving you just about anything you want in terms of a great surf wave, whatever that may mean to you. Quit your b****ing about what that may mean to someone else & go enjoy your own boat in whatever way that you like, & screw whatever anyone else thinks.

[MalibuTime]

Look, this has turned into exactly every other wake discussion that I've ever seen about wake preference, whether it's wakeboarding or surfing. I can't tell you how many times over the years that I've seen this play out, exactly like this. I like it steep, I like it rampy, I like it a little soft, no firmer, I need more transition, I want some lip at the top, blah blah blah. Some people have the attitude that "stock is good enough for me", while others that want to push the envelope complain that it's not a "pro level" wake or whatever. It's especially comparable to the arguments that I've seen over the years with regard to use of the wedge vs. no use of the wedge.

So I would say that the moral of the story is this: you guys all have fantastic boats that are capable of giving you just about anything you want in terms of a great surf wave, whatever that may mean to you. Quit your b****ing about what that may mean to someone else & go enjoy your own boat in whatever way that you like, & screw whatever anyone else thinks.

Awesome post. This thread reminds me of some of those threads back around election time.

[Afun]

the dude could ride a ripple. what does he weigh, a buck 20? but in the meantime, how's this?

http://vimeo.com/69493866

Great Video! If I made one with Huey Lewis and The News as the music, riding a big canoe of a board, with a big floppy CGA Vest, and my wife in the background screaming at the kids to stay in the boat....I don't think it will be as cool.

[85 Barefoot]

Great Video! If I made one with Huey Lewis and The News as the music, riding a big canoe of a board, with a big floppy CGA Vest, and my wife in the background screaming at the kids to stay in the boat....I don't think it will be as cool.

actually...that would be close...but only if you were wearing your sperrys on the wakesurfer pointing your finger at an adjacent fisherman

Edited August 6, 2013 by 85 Barefoot