Surf Gate - My experience - not impressed.

[Bawshogg]

I dare someone to get the same quality/size wake out of a surfgate boat with no exposed sacs. Did you look at the beginning of the video and all the bags in that boat? Might wanna review.

I have no exposed sacks in those pics, and the two guys in the boat have a place to put their feet. I also gaurnatee you the leaned wave has twice the push. I know from expierience, not hear say.

I never said it wasn't just another tool. That's all it is. It doesn't build a better wave alone. AGAIN, review the OP's comments .This thread began with his disappointment in all the hype behind surfgate.

I know a total of 3 people that ride the goofy side, A 30 second switch has never been a priority for us.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Bobby Bright

[shawndoggy]

Bobby you are also comparing a 247 to a vlx. Are there any vids of a slammed surfgate 247 with everything under the seats?

[CJAY]

I dare someone to get the same quality/size wake out of a surfgate boat with no exposed sacs. Did you look at the beginning of the video and all the bags in that boat? Might wanna review.

I have no exposed sacks in those pics, and the two guys in the boat have a place to put their feet. I also gaurnatee you the leaned wave has twice the push. I know from expierience, not hear say.

I never said it wasn't just another tool. That's all it is. It doesn't build a better wave alone. AGAIN, review the OP's comments .This thread began with his disappointment in all the hype behind surfgate.

I know a total of 3 people that ride the goofy side, A 30 second switch has never been a priority for us.

How do you guarantee the push statement? I've been on two boats with it, one was an MXZ that wasn't dialed in. Hated it. the other was an LSV, with only 3 people in the boat we had a bow sack, and the wave was the best I ever rode, including against some leaned RZ2s. I would have to try to lose that wave. I run my bow heavy no matter what. I'm a goofy rider and tired of riding switch or heel side.

A 30 second switch over??? It's 3 seconds with the 13 version of SG and 1 second with the 14 version. If you're saying it takes your boat 30seconds to switch I'm calling BS

Edited August 1, 2013 by CJAY

[demo9asx]

IXFE, thanks for the video and great to see you that you have improved a lot since that other clip. In no time you'll be pumping and slashing those waves.

Surfgate offers the convenience of switching sides and people need to see the value from that perspective. The surf wave, IMO, is nothing special and the fact that you need to run 4000lbs + wedge to produce that wave is mind boggling.

[Bobby Light]

I think what it boils down to is that it offers a level of versatility that wasn't there before. It's obvious that it doesn't produce a superior wave, I think the opposite is true. People that need to switch between regular and goofy a lot would probably see value in it. For those that ride one side or the other I think it's useless. It's also obvious that it does do what it was intended to do, but falls way short in what it was hyped up to do.

[Bawshogg]

Bobby you are also comparing a 247 to a vlx. Are there any vids of a slammed surfgate 247 with everything under the seats?

It goes for anything. When I initially wanted a surfgate boat, I had a VTX, it had a better wave leaned then the surfgate 23 LSV I demoed half the day in all sorts of configurations. We ended up leaning the 23 at the end of the day. And guess what?

Point on the 247 comparo is this. I have less wieght then he had in that video in my 247 and everyone knows it takes a ton to sink those pigs. After looking at that video, would you really want to put any more weight in that boat? I sure wouldn't .Let alone a crew of 4-5 guys. How is that for the safety factor?

I havent seen any videos of any smurfgate equipped 247 yet. But hear say is that Surfgate actuall works better on the smaller hulls... I don't know for sure. I do know that the 23 LSV wave and the 247 are VERY similar with a slight edge to the 247

How do you guarantee the push statement? I've been on two boats with it, one was an MXZ that wasn't dialed in. Hated it. the other was an LSV, with only 3 people in the boat we had a bow sack, and the wave was the best I ever rode, including against some leaned RZ2s. I would have to try to lose that wave. I run my bow heavy no matter what. I'm a goofy rider and tired of riding switch or heel side.

A 30 second switch over??? It's 3 seconds with the 13 version of SG and 1 second with the 14 version. If you're saying it takes your boat 30seconds to switch I'm calling BS

I meant 3. I gaurantee it becuase I have spent plenty of time in and on a surfgate equipped boat. mushhhhhh. Malibu's are known for relatively mushy waves to begin with. I can also tell by the videos and the relative size of the riders.

If the switch abilty is a big deal for you, then yes. It may be worth it for you. That honestly is the BEST feature of Smurfgate. For the most of us riding the other side is like walking around with your shoes on the wrong feet, just don't feel right and last time I checked there wern't too many 40 year old pro's out there. I am sure there is no threat of that happening to me, so my tricks will have to stay on the side I like for now.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Bobby Bright

[pkh]

I too hate exposed sacs, I have used lead to even out the boat after adding rear 750s for PNP. I am up to 500 lbs of lead but as low as 400 lbs worked fine.

I would say my wave is very close to IXFE with 2 people and gets larger with big crews. It is true you generally run 2x ballast for surfgate but your boat not being leaned is very nice when you have a full crew, kids, etc.

If I need to get back to the dock I can put the hammer down and get up on plane without worrying about draining ballast to get back to even.

Riding backside (goofy side) is fun because its so different, I usually do it once per session.

Anyway, I am not going to say that surfgate is for everyone but I do think its a great feature that will be what most people want.

I do want to put up some more photo / video evidence... I will try this weekend

[Lance B. Johnson]

Regular Side

[Lance B. Johnson]

[kayakwv]

Riding both sides makes you a better more versatile surfer. Growing up surfing ocean waves, you learn to surf frontside and backside, depending on the conditions and each wave you surf.

I dont have SG, but My VLX is dialed in perfect now. Takes about 10 min to switch sides. I surf both sides, and would like to be able to do transfers, but not worth getting a new boat yet. Lets see what the next few innovations are. For those of us that love inland surfing, the progression of the sport with Surfgate, NSS, and whatever is next, is great news.

[Lance B. Johnson]

IXFE- Thanks for having me on your beautiful boat! It was nice meeting you.

I will give some impressions now that I have ridden behind a sacked out SG boat.

Impressions:

Honestly if you boil this thread down you will have your answer. That is to say, just like in this thread, some people are going to love it, some aren't. I can tell you that smaller riders will probably favor SG while bigger riders will struggle more. I was positively worked after my session on the soulcraft. In the back of the wave it was difficult to gain much speed. But like I said, smaller riders will just get swept up and pushed a long because the wave hooks behind the rider.

The shape of the wave is much different then I am used to. Its a little tricky trying to figure out where to attempt an air, and given the firmness of the wave, airs were impossible for me @ 6'2 208. A smaller and more talented rider might not have an issue. Any trick requiring speed or a little pop would be difficult for me. I tried a knee on the board, nose riding, airs, lipslide etc were difficult because of the firmness of the wave.

Carving, slashing, big bottom turns were all possible and it was a really fun wave for that stuff.

The boat performed perfectly. The prop and engine combination made easy work of the 4100 lbs. Picking up a rider was a little difficult at that weight.

IMHO you won't want to add more than a 450 in the bow. The rollers are pretty big.

IXFE has very good taste and the color choices looked amazing together. That is the best looking VLX I have seen. Period.

[malibudog]

Bobby man, have some perspective. You own a boat with no surfgate. You have tons of time invested in your wake. You think its the best, That's cool. No problem. That's a reasonable perspective given how much time and effort you have invested in building a wake that looks and feels exactly how you prefer.

However, as convinced as you are, I personally am just as convinced that if you owned a boat with surfgate, had spent anywhere near the same amount of time tuning that wake as you have your current one, and had the choice between leaning it and using surfgate, you would be one of the biggest proponents of surfgate. Know you don't believe that, but that is still no reason to tell people that surfgate is useless for creating a competition style wake, or that it can only create wakes that are mushy or have no push. Own it, play with it, then tell me you hate it. Until then, your slamming something over and over again when you haven't spent near the time others have living with it and tuning it seems unfair/unjustified.

[Bawshogg]

Lol, no I don't. I only have 50 hrs (16 when i took delivery) on a boat I bought this season after being disappointed with the results of the Surfgate boats I tried.

I fully believed Surfgate was for me.....before I tried it. And I didn't just try it once. I think you are forgetting I didn't start this post.

How much time is enough to feel "the need" for it? If it just worked, an hour would be enough. There is an old adage about assuming. I think you should look that one up for review. Don't assume you know me, how many hours I spent "setting up" my boat or what you think I know about time behind a Surfgate boat.

Mind you, I boat/ride with a large group of wake enthusiasts in the Portland area that have been doing this stuff for 10-15 years now. It wasn't just my opinion, as several of them where present for our demos.

One of my biggest complaints is the lack of results with staggering amounts of weight and loosing all your storage. No big if you live on the lake, but a lot of us don't. It's not practical to have NO storage and

When it comes to the wave, I would rather have a Centurion over a Surfgate equipped boat if I had to choose, but I hate the rest of the boat at this point.

I have never said Surfgate doesn't do what it says, it does build a wave without listing, switch quickly and sucks with stock ballast, but so much of this comes down to building the best wave possible. That's what I want to ride. I would just end up listing my Surfgate equipped boat because I don't wanna settle for the 75% wave.

I've seen some pretty great Surfgate waves now, but at the tune of 5k in the boat.... Not worth it. Why not run half the weight .......listed?

It' is a good thing that the manufacturers are taking steps to further the sport, but I don't think Surfgate is the end all be all. All you fools act like it creates the best surf wave you have ever seen, and as of 2013 you just can't surf with out it.

Don't believe the hype, I ain't for everyone.

[kayakwv]

From the video, looks to me like the goofy side was better with that particular set up.

[Lance B. Johnson]

From the video, looks to me like the goofy side was better with that particular set up.

That would be pretty consistent with every Malibu listed or not.

[wakesetter8796]

Due to prop rotation.

[shawndoggy]

And one might wonder how or whether a big prop on a smaller hull might accentuate that effect.

[wakesetter8796]

True

[wakesetter8796]

Has anyone tried a 15 inch prop on an SV23 hull?

[Bawshogg]

There is nothing to ask. It's the best for all applications, just put it on and shut up.

[kayakwv]

That would be pretty consistent with every Malibu listed or not.

I knew prop rotation was the key. One of the reasons I liked malibu, being a goofy footer myself.

[IXFE]

Really disappoined I couldnt make out Tuesaday. Got in late from WTW Monday night, and had to play catchup at the job.

Looks about all the other surfgate waves I have seen or been on. Like I said, you sacrified the whole boat to the ballast gods and that's what you got. It doesn't get better with out that weight either.

Not to rub it in, but I can make this with just under that weight, NO EXPOSED SACKS.... just leaned.

Like the OP tried to say. Surfgate is not what they make you believe it can do.

Brandon,

I don't really understand your point. Your have a 24 foot boat, the biggest in the fleet, completely sacked out (does it really matter if it's under the seats??) and you are showing professional photos from off the side of the boat with pro lighting etc. I can't imagine a worse comparison. My videos were taken my my neighbor using a handheld Android phone (360p) from the observer seat. Nice comparison... real objective.

Look, we get it. You are the surf king. Nobody can beat you. You would never be happy with Surf Gate. You made the right decision, yada yada yada.

I've said it before, I don't know why I should say it again, but I will... I have never said Surf Gate was superior to anything... certainly not superior to your monster of a boat (however, I do think the comparison would be closer if I had Jon out on my boat taking pro pics from same vantage point). All I ever said was the OP had the wrong recipe. If he had set up the boat up just a little differently I bet he would have been hella impressed.

[IXFE]

I dare someone to get the same quality/size wake out of a surfgate boat with no exposed sacs. Did you look at the beginning of the video and all the bags in that boat? Might wanna review.

I have no exposed sacks in those pics, and the two guys in the boat have a place to put their feet. I also gaurnatee you the leaned wave has twice the push. I know from expierience, not hear say.

I never said it wasn't just another tool. That's all it is. It doesn't build a better wave alone. AGAIN, review the OP's comments .This thread began with his disappointment in all the hype behind surfgate.

I know a total of 3 people that ride the goofy side, A 30 second switch has never been a priority for us.

I kind of knew somebody would make an issue out of all the weight... as if you NEED it to make a nice wave.

All I was trying to accomplish was have some fun with local guys who may or may not have tried Surf Gate. I wasn't trying to change anybody's mind. It's a little like politics... nobody ever changes their mind and nobody ever wins. Honestly, the sacks were just for fun... I mean, why the hell not? I can still surf with just my PnP bags just as easily and just as long. The boat doesn't NEED that weight. It was all for fun... I'd continue to post vids of just stock + PnP wave, but what's the point? You guys will still bash it with your professional photos, hidden ballast, etc. As if one couldn't' plumb under seat ballast in a Surf Gate boat too... sheesh.

Can we just end this already? I'm really so disappointed that you guys could turn something beautiful (local guys meeting to hang out and surf) into something ugly again (more pissing matches). Honestly, let it go.

[IXFE]

IXFE, thanks for the video and great to see you that you have improved a lot since that other clip. In no time you'll be pumping and slashing those waves.

Surfgate offers the convenience of switching sides and people need to see the value from that perspective. The surf wave, IMO, is nothing special and the fact that you need to run 4000lbs + wedge to produce that wave is mind boggling.

Thanks for noticing my improvement. I'm just trying to mimic you guys. I honestly haven't surfed much until this year. But we are sure are having fun with it.

As previously stated... you don't need 4000 lbs. at all. Here it is with stock + PnP (how we usually ride).

And as long as we are comparing... I see you have an MB F21 (my old boat). I once tried to sack that boat out thinking the surf wave would be HUGE. Not the case for us. Here is a shot I have from that day. I seem to recall we were running stock ballast (900) + rear locker (750) + side seat (450) + bow (450). Very disappointing and part of reason we never really embraced surfing before this year. Before you attack me, I'm not saying an F21 can't do it... It just wasn't immediately obvious to us, even with all that weight.

[Bawshogg]

I ain't the king of anything. Where did I say that ?

I have honestly been trying to Wakesurf for the last 10 years. I do know the difference between a solid wave and cream of wheat.

I'm really sorry I pissed in your Cheerios, but I understand .You gotta put in work. Keep that corporate deal. It's hard to flip boats when you don't get that deal, so of course you gotta ride that wagon. I don't. If all you guys think I have my opinion because I don't have Surfgate. Ask yourself , Why would a guy with 10 years surf experience buy a left over 2012 247 and not just order a 2013 23 LSV that I was dead set on?

It ain't about the cost. It wasn't about time constraints ....What was it about?? Surely not resale , everyone knows my boats not worth anything without Surfgate. So why would I make a $100k mistake?

About the wave. 23, 21, 20, anything I have been on or seen videos of all has the same characteristics. Mush. A mushy wave is not conducive to big tricks. Guys that have ridden for years know this. You need that weight to firm up that wave, I know it don't get no better with less weight. How bout this? Take that 4000lbs and throw it all on one side. You tell me which wave is better even though I already know. It will be a good learning experience for you. Who the hell wants ballast all over the damn boat if you don't have to have it there?That's just plain stupid of you to ask , especially since I know you have had 3-4 boats.

About the photos. Sorry one of my best friends takes good pictures. I'll ask him to take s***tier ones next time so I don't make you look bad.....

I don't have anything against Surfgate for the 100 th time! If you like it, great if it works for you, Perfect! What I do have a problem with is all the Hype, the" best thing since Preparation H "attitude, the biggest , baddest surf device you have to have or you suck. READ THE TITLE OF THE THREAD. I DIDN'T START IT. Someone else that has a lot of surfing experience .

The first pictures I took where with my iPhone if that makes you feel better.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Bobby Bright