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Surf Gate - My experience - not impressed.


JustinOSU

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I think that it's safe to say that most of us wouldn't have been impressed with any of our boats' surf waves with just stock ballast. I sure wasn't when I demoed the '05 VLX (ended up ordering an '06), & knew that I'd need to add weight. If I'd formed my opinion based on what I saw on the demo with stock ballast, I never would have bought the boat.

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Lets beat this one to a pulp, like we already haven't for the last year.

Surfgate is not the next coming of Yeesus Christ. It adds a new dimension, but as with most things there is always a trade off.

The trade offs for having Surfgate work out for some and others they don't. I

Most of you already know hat camp I lie in so no need to dig that up.

It has been very well marketed, I will say that. I don't believe that is gonna be the end all be all of wake surfing in the years to come. There are still 3000 times more boats without Surfgate than with. It's gonna take along time for those to go away. On top of that there are about 15 other inboard manufactures that don't use the gate/ flap technology. All those boats are worthless too, I know.

I can say I have spent enough time behind , driving, and in a Surfgate equipped boat to know . I also would agree with the OP.

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For sure. It's just that most every review on SG I read includes "the wave is great with only stock weight" or something to that effect.....that's the only reason I mention it..

Well, honestly speaking, the marketing material (& many reviews) back in the day would hype something similar due to the wedge or the power wedge....who you gonna believe? We ALL should know, it's going to take extra weight & a knowhow on where to place it, regardless of SG, wedge, NSS, whatever you use. If you buy into the marketing hype, well then you get what you get.

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Both these ....#nosurfgate. Same boat, both guys right at 6 ft. or just under.

I still have storage. And the wave is shapeable depending on how you wanna ride. Nice and firm both ways.

image_zps8df56e6f.jpg

image_zpscfed5ab1.jpg

Edited by Bobby Bright
  • Like 1
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Wow....I am contemplating a new boat, and was leaning towards a TXi to replace my '02 SSLXI, but the local dealer has a VTX w/SG that has caught my eye. Shhhh, don't tell them, I don't want them to know I am thinkning about this...haha.

I have never surfed, but want to learn, and I was fully under the impression I could buy a fully equipped VTX w/SG and with a little instruction from the dealer, head to the lake and Surf. Stock ballast, no need to have 14 adults on board.

All this talk of the wake varying even among same model and year of boat has me concerned. I do not know how to dial in a wake. I do not really want to spend hours/days doing that and adding 1000's of pounds of ballast, but I guess that is unavoidable.

I guess I fell for the marketing videos that showedand claimed stock ballast and SG producing the greatest wave since sliced bread.

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Wow....I am contemplating a new boat, and was leaning towards a TXi to replace my '02 SSLXI, but the local dealer has a VTX w/SG that has caught my eye. Shhhh, don't tell them, I don't want them to know I am thinkning about this...haha.

I have never surfed, but want to learn, and I was fully under the impression I could buy a fully equipped VTX w/SG and with a little instruction from the dealer, head to the lake and Surf. Stock ballast, no need to have 14 adults on board.

All this talk of the wake varying even among same model and year of boat has me concerned. I do not know how to dial in a wake. I do not really want to spend hours/days doing that and adding 1000's of pounds of ballast, but I guess that is unavoidable.

I guess I fell for the marketing videos that showedand claimed stock ballast and SG producing the greatest wave since sliced bread.

Here's the thing. The flip side to this whole argument is that TMC is a select group. Select, as in special. We obsess about things, one of those being how to get the most out of our boats. Most people out there aren't this way, & for them Surfgate works exactly as advertised. Will you need to add weight? Not at first, you'll be learning. But, it's a slippery slope so be warned.

Also, from my limited experience around SG & from what I've read, my suspicion is that SG will have a greater, more dramatic effect on the smaller boats vs. their stock wave with no SG than on the bigger boats. (For clarification I mean that a VTX with SG could see a greater benefit vs. its stock wave without SG than a 247 with SG vs. its own stock wave without SG.) Look at what martinarcher has been able to achieve behind his DD Sunsetter. I never, ever, in my life, have seen a wave behind any direct drive like that. I didn't think it was possible, and believe me I tried with my yellow boat.

So go demo it, surf it, ski it, & everything in between. Then form your own opinion on the boat & don't worry about the rest.

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Wow....I am contemplating a new boat, and was leaning towards a TXi to replace my '02 SSLXI, but the local dealer has a VTX w/SG that has caught my eye. Shhhh, don't tell them, I don't want them to know I am thinkning about this...haha.

I have never surfed, but want to learn, and I was fully under the impression I could buy a fully equipped VTX w/SG and with a little instruction from the dealer, head to the lake and Surf. Stock ballast, no need to have 14 adults on board.

All this talk of the wake varying even among same model and year of boat has me concerned. I do not know how to dial in a wake. I do not really want to spend hours/days doing that and adding 1000's of pounds of ballast, but I guess that is unavoidable.

I guess I fell for the marketing videos that showedand claimed stock ballast and SG producing the greatest wave since sliced bread.

Exactly why I started this thread I too thought the SG was the end all in wake surfing and not from market hype instead from hype on this site. Again I don't doubt that it does make an awesome wake but that awesome wake is more dependent upon ballast and placement than upon the SG itself.

This thread sure did blow up, 4 pages in 10 hours.

Edited by JustinOSU
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Both these ....#nosurfgate. Same boat, both guys right at 6 ft. or just under.

I still have storage. And the wave is shapeable depending on how you wanna ride. Nice and firm both ways.

image_zps8df56e6f.jpg

image_zpscfed5ab1.jpg

They look the same to me, so what's the difference with the surf gate deployed, is it basically an anti-listing device?

Edited by JustinOSU
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No surf gate Justin. The differences in the waves is the steepness at the back of the boat. This is what the Power wedge can do to the shape of the wave. When you can run the PW wherever you want , it gets real steep.

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They look the same to me, so what's the difference with the surf gate deployed, is it basically an anti-listing device?

The gate opens and delays the convergence of both wakes to about 13'-15' behind the boat. This allows the surf side wake to build.

  • Like 1
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Seems most people knocking Surf Gate have a few things in common:

1) older, non Surf Gate boats

2) unrealistic expectations

3) amnesia about the physics of wake making

I have not read one review of Surf Gate that claims it's perfect w/ stock ballast. Nor have I read a read a review that says it spreads magic pixie dust on the wave.

Do you folks thinks it's a coincidence that in 2013 Malibu finally offered PnP ballast bags for the lockers? Isn't that their way of acknowledging that it needs extra weight??

As a Surf Gate owner I will tell you that I knew long before I ordered my boat that it needed extra weight (research > marketing). Since I've owned the boat, I've surfed it dozens of times, never once with only stock ballast. My 750's are filled to the max every time, and I slam as many people in the bow as possible. Why? BECAUSE I RESEARCH!! Which is something the OP clearly didn't do. The other thing I never do is trust factory presets. The surf presets are too slow @ 9.6 (should be minimum 10.6), have the wedge set to full (it should be down), and it leaves the stock bow ballast tank empty (should be full).

One final pitfall the OP probably made w/out knowing it. If you rely on the factory surf setting, the surf tab does not deploy (unless you manually press the surf gate button). That's because the factory presets do not control the surf gate tabs.

Final diagnosis from an experienced Surf Gate operator... the OP = user error on at least 4 levels (ballast, wedge, speed, tabs). Epic fail. Try again.

It is what it is guys... a simple tool. But even a simple tool needs to be used properly. Do you homework next time.

Edited by IXFE
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LSV footage starting at 0:35

VLX footate starting at 1:55

Not to derail this topic but, what is the white board they are riding?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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I have a 247 with 1100's plugged in the back. To lean it, I fill one of those, plus put two 750's on the seats in the rear corner. I had over two years to tweak it as much as I could for a leaned, slammed wake.

In 2012, I made a home made surf fin. With the surf fin, I fill the two 1100's and put nothing on the seats. I can do either slammed/leaned or surf fin anytime I want. Suffice it to say that I don't lean it anymore. Not when everyone is riding on the same side. Not when I am the only one riding. Not with beginners. Not with a tour pro. If I want the best wake I can get out of the 247 with the weight I have, I use the fin.

My wake with the fin is taller, even using less overall weight. See video. It has a much better transition. It is longer. It has better push. It is more forgiving. I can get more air off of it, although with my skills, that is not saying much. Spinning is much easier. It is, simply put, way more fun to ride. The fact that the boat is level, and I can change sides in under a minute without running any ballast pumps is a huge bonus, but a bonus I wouldn't care about if the wake wasn't great with the fin.

Here is the leaned vs. gated test video from a year ago when we first started riding it:

Here is one showing how the gated wake changes at various speeds:

Some people love the shape of a leaned wake more. Some people, like Bobby, use more than the 2600 lbs extra ballast to lean their boat, and have larger wakes as a result. If you don't think he gets a great wake out of that boat - one that you would be happy to ride every day - you are crazy. My results may not hold for him or for others. For me, the leaned/ non gated wake I get is more vertical, less rampy, and has a very sharp transition at the bottom. If you love that kind of wake, a gated wake may not be for you. But for me, with a gate I get a taller, longer, more forgiving wake with more push that is easier to progress on, and consequently I never lean the boat now, even though that is always an option.

  • Like 2
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Thanks BS for the props. Here is my 2 cents. I had a 09 VLX that we slammed and surfed on for a total of 595 hours. We loved our boat and wake. We demo'd the VLX with SG and I wasn't super impressed at first because there wasn't enough weight in the boat. I knew there was potential with it properly weighted. Once I got mine figured out the length of the wave is dramatically increased with the SG and the shape is better (much more mellow and way more push in the back of the wave). Surfing stock ballast is kind of a joke, can it be done? Yes, with the proper board and rider skill, sure. Would I want to? No way.

Do people want to slam there boat as much as I do? Probably not but I absolutely love the wave and really believe I have maxed out this VLX without having a bigger engine. Here is the link to my setup.

Edited by RayRay
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One final pitfall the OP probably made w/out knowing it. If you rely on the factory surf setting, the surf tab does not deploy (unless you manually press the surf gate button). That's because the factory presets do not control the surf gate tabs.

Final diagnosis from an experienced Surf Gate operator... the OP = user error on at least 4 levels (ballast, wedge, speed, tabs). Epic fail. Try again.

IXFE you are mistaken, we did adjust the factory settings, we where driving 11 to 11.5, we verified the surf gate was deployed and we felt it deploy at around 7mph. We had all stock ballast full and 1000+lbs of human weight. We only had to drain the opposite corner to get a good clean wake along with myself sitting all the way to the point of the bow when I wasn't driving, and we did adjust the wedge and found it best around 70% down. So you are completely wrong in your assumption.

I have been weighting boats for 19 years starting with a 89 mastercraft tristar then a 91 malibu eufo f3, 99 Malibu wakesetter, 2000 Malibu 23 LSV and now for the past 8 years a 2004 vlx and no one has ever complained about my wakeboard or surf wake.

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Wow....I am contemplating a new boat, and was leaning towards a TXi to replace my '02 SSLXI, but the local dealer has a VTX w/SG that has caught my eye. Shhhh, don't tell them, I don't want them to know I am thinkning about this...haha.

I have never surfed, but want to learn, and I was fully under the impression I could buy a fully equipped VTX w/SG and with a little instruction from the dealer, head to the lake and Surf. Stock ballast, no need to have 14 adults on board.

All this talk of the wake varying even among same model and year of boat has me concerned. I do not know how to dial in a wake. I do not really want to spend hours/days doing that and adding 1000's of pounds of ballast, but I guess that is unavoidable.

I guess I fell for the marketing videos that showedand claimed stock ballast and SG producing the greatest wave since sliced bread.

You SHOULD be under that impression. I had one (a 13 VTX). I've also had 3 VLXs, a 247, axis A22, etc. so I ain't no spring chicken either. On the VTX run full ballast, wedge close to max and bone stock, you will have a very ridable (I will call it great) surf wave. The surf wave arguments here are like the wake arguments on ball of spray or wakeworld. 99% of people commenting on wakeboard wakes being bigger see absolutely no benefit to a bigger wake as they cna't even utilize a wake properly. Interestingly, I had a conversation with a wakesurf pro a couple weeks ago with an Fx-22 centurion and watched him ride...y'all wouldn't believe how LITTLE weight he runs (less than 95% of people on here, easily). In a comp that weekend he actually didn't win, and you know what he said? They put too much weight in the boat and messed up the wave and the entire pro division was offerred a re-ride! This is a pro we're talking about. Going overboard on weight and the perceived "need" for the biggest wake ever is silly from my own personal experience and my observation of a lot of people who are at the top of the field. Size of wakesurf waves have just turned into a measuring stick and have little to no bearing on fun or progression. If someone is happy throwing in 4000#s and having a huge wave, great for them. Does it mean someone like RTS won't be happy with a bone stock VTX wave, absolutely not. The thing right out of the box is easier to ride and have fun on than the vast majority of boats out there because they're not dialed in right.

Is a factory VTX going to have a better wake than a 247 with 4000#s, of course not. Will you be able to EASILY create a VERY serviceable wave in 3 minutes on that VTX, without question. Anyone who doubts me is welcome to go demo a SG VTX and dispute.

Edited by 85 Barefoot
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