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Surf Set up Vs understanding how to tweak


PyleDriver

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So I am new to these boats and wake surfing. I did a lot of research and everyone talks about getting the "set up" right.

In reality I am finding there is no such thing as setting up for a good wave. Every time I go surfing the wave changes.

So for me its not about the set up but about knowing how to tweak it for the conditions.

it would be nice to have a list of ways to change the wave to get desired results.

For instance I now know that if the wave is too steep and I want it longer I need to decrease wedge and or add weight to the front.

Also changing speed changes the wave, slower equals steeper and faster equals longer.

Maybe we could get more tricks to tweak the wave for the conditions?

Mike

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Mike-

Trust me on this, I surfed your same boat for 150hrs. I know the 247 well. Follow this and it will blow your mind:

front tank 3/4.

Center tank 2/3.

rear surf side tank full.

other rear tank empty.

Gas tank 1/2 - 2/3.

1100 sac in the surfside trunk, completely maxed out.

400-500lbs? 12" x 14" x 6ft tube sac under the surf side seats maxed out.

500-1000lb(or 4 passengers) sac on top of your surside seats as far back as they will go

Speed 11.2 - 11.8

Wedge 70-90% of the way down to the locked position.

Everyhting heavy on the surf side, all passengers on the surf side.

Go ahead and re-prop now to the Acme 2315.

You will have a raging insane 3-4ft wave. If you want it a little longer, more weight in the bow. Steeper? less weight in the bow.

Edited by nyryan2001
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I agree that to get the "best" wave you have to tweak a little bit based on conditions. I think this is all good advice, although I've never found that I had too much weight on the surf side. Getting weight out to the edge of the boat definitely gets you a smoother wake. I bought solid ballast specifically for this reason because the bow hard tank ballast is centered.

Even going into the wind vs away you will find that the wave changes.

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Try these troubleshooting tips:

If the wave feels too soft/mushy: You need to increase your speed OR don't use the wedge. The wedge will slow the wave down.

If the wave is too steep: You have too much weight on the surf side. Add to non-surf side first, then try decreasing weight on surf side.

If your wave isn't wide enough: you are lacking weight AND the boat is too listed. You need to 'seat' the boat in the water more. More center or non-surf side weight. (Too steep and too narrow are common problems to have at the same time)

If the wave isn't long enough: You need more bow weight OR you can increase your speed (90% of the time it's bow weight)

If the wave isn't big enough: You don't have enough total weight.

If the wave is too big at the back of the boat or 'hooking' too much (going out from the boat rather than back from the boat): You have too much weight in the rear locker.

If the wave is crumbling over near the back of the boat: This is tricky. Usually not enough surf side weight but can be a lot of things. Try SMALL adjustments to speed & bow weight next.

Also:

Be aware you are going to need 15' of water depth to surf. Anything less will make the wave stop 'spinning' (aka: no push & mushy) and/or get smaller & flatten out.

Be aware that, in a river, going into the current will always create a better wave than going with it.

We need to talk. It's obvious you know more than I do about this. Share it on our next outing.

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I would much rather have a mildly steep, long wave vs a steep,short or long wave. The steep wave is very hard to deal with in terms of surface tricks , any air attempts ECT. It makes recovery even harder as you fall of the cliff per say.

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Yup. Length is where it's at. So many more possibilities. I've rode behind 2-3 different boats (x2, LSV, etc) that had HUGE waves, but they were right behind the boat. No room to maneuver at all. Not that that is all the boat was capable of, just the way the people had it weighted. The rideable length of my Vrides wave is over 16' off the swim deck. Me n Ruff measured with a 16' tape and it ran out on us (and he was still ridin) :lol:

Then whats a good set up? I be running 750 surf side rear locker, 500 in ski locker, 500 in bow, wedge down & one or two people sitting surf side. I have a huge wave but it is not very far back & I would like to lengthen the pocket. Seems 10.3 mph is the sweet spot on my boat, I tried different speeds but 11 seems too fast, under 10 is too slow? I have no idea if my spedometer is accurate or not

Edited by racer808
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Yup. Length is where it's at. So many more possibilities. I've rode behind 2-3 different boats (x2, LSV, etc) that had HUGE waves, but they were right behind the boat. No room to maneuver at all. Not that that is all the boat was capable of, just the way the people had it weighted. The rideable length of my Vrides wave is over 16' off the swim deck. Me n Ruff measured with a 16' tape and it ran out on us (and he was still ridin)

:lol:

Wow, that is impressive! Maybe a sticky posted up on the different hulls as they changed years and what the ideal weight distribution is would be helpful...

What was the setup to get that far back?

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I can almost bet you we can get 25 ft back on my 247. Albeit I am still learning how to setup this boat, but we are getting real close. I just haven't had 17 people in the boat yet. Most I have had was 5 , lol.

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Tyger: if it was all about offsetting the boat, nobody would fill their center ballast. You have to 'seat' the hull in the water too.

Think of it this way.... What happens if everyone walks to the non surf side when someone's riding? The wave flattens out, right? So what happens if all your weight is on the surf side? The wave stands straight up.

Too steep= too much offset.

Not a super common problem on 23-24' boats because people arent running those boats at max weight as often (bc they usually don't need to) Very common in smaller hulls where people are slamming the boat to get the max potential from their hull.

Plus, I should say: a vast majority of people seem to prefer their wave as big and steep as possible. But in almost every case, that means sacrificing length..... Something I'm not willing to do.

Obviously you need to find the right setup for your boat. If evening out the weight left to right gives you a better wake, then absolutely that's what you should do. I've owned three surf boats now, 21, 23 and 24 and ridden behind a few others. I've also been reading and discussing surf wakes here and on 2 other boards for the last 6 years. In every case people have the best success with getting as much of their weight on the surf side as possible. That doesn't mean that total weight doesn't matter, it does - that's why filling your center ballast is usually is a good idea, since it's a high percentage of your overall weight.

In every conversation I've ever had with people who are happy with their wake, steeper is more weight in the back and/or slower speed and longer wake is more weight in the front and/or more speed. I'm definitely not saying your wrong. If putting more weight on the non-surf side works for you, then that's absolutely what you should do. I just pointed out that from my experience getting more weight surf side is always better. And in every thread I've read where experienced surfers are giving advice to someone new (including the times when I was new to the sport) keeping as much weight out of the non-surf side has been the rule. On my 21, even moving my 90 pound dog from the non-surf side to the surf side would make the wake better.

I definitely was not trying to contradict you. This thread is about tweaking - I've definitely tried putting weight on the non-surf side just to see what would happen and so should everyone who's trying to dial in their wave. If that's what works for you, go to town. Surfing 16+ feet back is awesome and you obviously have a great wake. However, people should understand that this setup is the exception, not the rule.

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A long time ago (I think this was in 2004), a rep from Malibu told me that building a surf wave is about digging the deepest hole in the water possible. I think what -BS- is doing by adding weight to that other side, he's helping the boat make the hole deeper. This is just a theory, because I've never tried it, but if you've already got so much weight on your surf side that you've got water running over the gunnels like he does, then adding 250 lbs to the other side isn't going to negate the lean that much, & actually help push the hull even farther into the hole. When I had my VLX (same hull as what -BS- has), I regularly had water running up over the gunnel & rear sunpad, but at that point never thought to add weight to the other side. That would have been an interesting experiment. But.....me being a goofy footer, the wave was already so spectacular that it's hard to imagine that it could have been better. But knowing how far over that we had the boat, I can see how adding that weight to the other side might work. Goofy side is always better behind a Malibu. :biggrin:

I will say this. It's refreshing to see people talk about liking waves that are long, rather than just big & stacked up behind the boat. When I see people start out setting up their boat for surfing, they usually make that mistake, thinking that it's all about just having the biggest wave possible. Well, like with a wakeboard wake, that's just not true. There's so much more to it than that.

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That day -BS- and I tried that the possibility of running out of tape never occurred to me :). It's pretty sweet. Actually wish this thread had come up earlier. Last week my crew was 3 one hour and up to 10 the next. Getting a good wave was a bit of a challenge. Mind you I always had a surfable wave but to many times it was just huge and not long enough. I finally fixed it by moving the 450 in the cabin up forward as far as it would go. My only complaint at that point is it wasn't wide enough. This made it tough on the beginners for sure.

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It wouldn't be hard for anyone to measure. Just throw the end of a board rope out, have the person in the cabin mark the spot, then measure it later.

After we measured 16 it was safe to assume that there was 20' of surfable wave.

It's so irritating to be on vacation riding behind my boat and all along wishing I was riding behind that 2009. Even with the recent improvement from the prop change. The wave we had at Shasta needed tweaking for reference btw. I have had longer waves from my boat.

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After we measured 16 it was safe to assume that there was 20' of surfable wave.

It's so irritating to be on vacation riding behind my boat and all along wishing I was riding behind that 2009. Even with the recent improvement from the prop change. The wave we had at Shasta needed tweaking for reference btw. I have had longer waves from my boat.

You just need to become a goofy footer. The goofy wave was great. :tease2:

The best wave that I ever had behind my VLX, we had the following:

Rear surf side stock ballast

Center stock ballast

Bow stock ballast

750 in rear locker

500 surf side bow

750 in cabin on surf side seat

Floating wedge

11 people in the boat. :crazy:

The wave.....it was incredible. RJ was younger, & he was over 20' back on that wave with no problem (he could have been farther back, honestly). We had water running along the tower leg, the hull was absolutely buried. Of course she was an absolute pig to drive....

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You just need to become a goofy footer. The goofy wave was great. :tease2:

The best wave that I ever had behind my VLX, we had the following:

Rear surf side stock ballast

Center stock ballast

Bow stock ballast

750 in rear locker

500 surf side bow

750 in cabin on surf side seat

Floating wedge

11 people in the boat. :crazy:

The wave.....it was incredible. RJ was younger, & he was over 20' back on that wave with no problem (he could have been farther back, honestly). We had water running along the tower leg, the hull was absolutely buried. Of course she was an absolute pig to drive....

Holy cow.

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Yeah, I pushed that hull about as far as I felt was reasonable. Granted, my definition of reasonable is probably different than most, but we wanted to see what that hull was capable of if we really pushed it to the edge. And we did. Honestly though, after spending the day like that, I decided that if I had that many people in the boat, I wouldn't put a bag in the cabin at all. It was just too much stress, trying to make sure that everyone is safe, & driving that boat safely set up like that was challenging. While I never took water (other than what was running over the sunpad), the stress of the day was just too much. But it was a fun experiment.

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After we measured 16 it was safe to assume that there was 20' of surfable wave.

It's so irritating to be on vacation riding behind my boat and all along wishing I was riding behind that 2009. Even with the recent improvement from the prop change. The wave we had at Shasta needed tweaking for reference btw. I have had longer waves from my boat.

Saturday had mine dialed.. :) I needed to bring my other pump cause it takes forever to drain 4 sacks or better yet get the project done...... Sat alone we burned through a tank. Best thing surfing the popo didn't have a reason to pull me over. though he thought I was Tim and pulled him over... :rofl:

I used similar setup to WG's

400 up front w/ 80lbs of lead

250 in walkway

400 cabin

750 rear

all stock ballast

Wedge clicked up one

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Saturday had mine dialed.. :) I needed to bring my other pump cause it takes forever to drain 4 sacks or better yet get the project done...... Sat alone we burned through a tank. Best thing surfing the popo didn't have a reason to pull me over. though he thought I was Tim and pulled him over... :rofl:

I used similar setup to WG's

400 up front w/ 80lbs of lead

250 in walkway

400 cabin

750 rear

all stock ballast

Wedge clicked up one

What speed were you running with that? I seem to recall having to speed up when we did that with my boat, to low 11's. When I tried to run our usual speed of 10.6 it just stacked up behind the boat, a little faster made the wave looooooooong & oh so nice.

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What speed were you running with that? I seem to recall having to speed up when we did that with my boat, to low 11's. When I tried to run our usual speed of 10.6 it just stacked up behind the boat, a little faster made the wave looooooooong & oh so nice.

IIRC at 11.2.

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Yeah, that sounds about right. That's another key, when you get that much weight in the boat, you almost have to speed up a little otherwise you get that sheer face right behind the boat. There's a balance of speed vs. weight that can be tricky for newbies. Of course, the type of board also plays a part in the equation.

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Yeah, I pushed that hull about as far as I felt was reasonable. Granted, my definition of reasonable is probably different than most, but we wanted to see what that hull was capable of if we really pushed it to the edge. And we did. Honestly though, after spending the day like that, I decided that if I had that many people in the boat, I wouldn't put a bag in the cabin at all. It was just too much stress, trying to make sure that everyone is safe, & driving that boat safely set up like that was challenging. While I never took water (other than what was running over the sunpad), the stress of the day was just too much. But it was a fun experiment.

I'm right with you. Fun to do once in low traffic day with calm waters.

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Saturday had mine dialed.. :) I needed to bring my other pump cause it takes forever to drain 4 sacks or better yet get the project done...... Sat alone we burned through a tank. Best thing surfing the popo didn't have a reason to pull me over. though he thought I was Tim and pulled him over... :rofl:

I used similar setup to WG's

400 up front w/ 80lbs of lead

250 in walkway

400 cabin

750 rear

all stock ballast

Wedge clicked up one

It looked great from where we were at! Couldn't even see the back of your boat. :)

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Wow good stuff here. Glad I asked.

I am going to see how long the wave is with my current set up.

We surfed all day today and I am definitely getting better and tweaking the wave with bow weight, wedge and speed.

I am running

Bow full

Center full

Rear surf side full

1100lb sack in locker full

Non surf side empty

voice activated ballast to tweak. (We had a crew of 9 today)

I may try and add some to the rear surf side since when we had 10 larger people the rub rail was under and water was going into vent. LOL

Mike

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....

HOLY MOLY! That setup is insane. Hahaha.....You are so much braver than I. I bet that wave was cuh-razy! I'd love to try this sometime: on somebody else's boat!! :lol:

.....and maybe this speaks a bit to what I'm saying about non-surf side weight: with 11 people on the boat, I'm assuming quite a few of them were on the non-surf side......seating that hull further while maintaining your boat attitude/posture.

Yes, I agree completely. With that many people, some were sitting on the floor when we were goofy side but some didn't have any choice but to sit on the other side. Although we did have the lightest people over there.

It was fun to try & I learned a lot about how completely capable that that particular hull is.

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And to tie this back in with the g23 thread.... Think how much more you could get out of the hull if there were 6-8" more freeboard and you didn't have to be worried about a rogue roller ruining your day...

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