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Clarification on Troubleshooting Starter / Solenoid


Big_Moose_Wakesetter

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Saturday was a rough afternoon & evening...after spending a few hours finishing my RGB LED install (I'll get some pics up soon), I finally got the boat out around 5:00 for a little cruise before the evening fireworks show on the lake (I was clearly planning on showing off those lights a bit). I stopped the boat to float a bit so I could better listen to the complaining about how I wasted the day installing those lights, and when I went to start it back up I would only get a click or two from the starter. I shouldn't have been surprised as this had been happening the past 2 weeks when I cold-started, but eventually it would start and subsequent starts were relatively smooth.

Ended up getting towed by my dad's small boat during the fireworks show! Long night, but I digress...

As suspected, it wasn't an issue with the batteries (tried a jump box as well as 2 other good batteries) so I suspect it's most likely the starter solenoid or the starter itself after doing a lot of reading on the forum last night. Before I turned in for the night, I found the starter & solenoid and removed the small yellow ignition cable, the large power cable from the battery, and another double-cable (single ring terminal) on the same terminal that I believe (without trying to trace it) runs to the alternator. There was a little corrosion on most of them so I cleaned them all up with a rotary tool & wire brush. I also removed the large battery ground that went to the engine block along with the threaded post it was attached to. Lots of corrosion on that one so I cleaned them both up as well. I suppose I should mention that I swamped the poor boat about three weeks ago launching in very 'frantic' conditions. The water wasn't initially too high in the engine compartment, but it filled up pretty high when I pulled the boat out onto the ramp and it sat at an angle to drain.

Anyway, seemed like cleaning the connections it seemed a little 'closer' to starting but no luck still. I also confirmed that my battery power cable was getting over 12V but I didn't have an assistant handy so I couldn't check the ignition cable (I suspect it's alright since the starter clicks). My plan is to check the starter solenoid and starter - I'm a little vague on the starter relay, slave solenoid, neutral start (I believe) switch, etc so I'll look at those next if I have no luck.

I didn't try to jump the starter yet because I have some questions on it. I know that I can use a large, rubber-handled screw driver as a jumper between the terminal with the battery power cable and ignition cable. I'm unsure, however, if this bypasses the solenoid or engages it. I believe that if that starts the boat, I have at least ruled out a bad starter but not sure about the solenoid.

I'm also unsure about exactly how the solenoid connects (electrically) to the starter since I haven't pulled it yet. I believe I read that there are only a couple of bolts to remove to do that but I haven't taken a closer look yet. If the jumper method I described above doesn't bypass the solenoid, how exactly canI do that? Is the other large post on the solenoid (the one without the battery power cable) connected to the starter somehow and can I place my screwdriver between those two large posts? If not, how can I jump the battery power cable directly to the starter?

Hopefully I can narrow the cause down tonight if someone can help me clear those questions up. Depending on how the attempts to jump it go, I can also hook up my jumper box directly to the battery power terminal on the solenoid (and a ground of course) to see if perhaps I have some hidden corrosion under the jackets of the power & ground cables or something that's impeding the connection.

Thanks for any help and feel free to correct me anywhere as I'm clearly taking a stab at something I didn't previously know much about. The only local Malibu service place told me it'd probably be a week or more before they could look at it so I'd rather try and narrow it down myself.

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I appreciate all of your diligence and your analysis sounds like just the road I'd take.

That said, it's summer and summer is short. How about you take the starter and solenoid to your local starter rebuild guy and ask for a rebuild. It's 8 years old and has been recently swamped. It's probably toast.

Could probably be done before the weekend?

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Thanks - that's kind of the plan. Totally agree on not wanting to waste too much more time on it! I need a "local starter rebuild guy" first though so I was hoping to figure out if it's just the solenoid (which I believe I should be able to get from somewhere like Napa) before taking that route.

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I'm 99% sure that jumping the starter with a screwdriver bypasses the solenoid. That's the solenoid's job, afaik, to sorta automatically close that circuit.

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Thanks so much that was EXACTLY what I needed to see. I'd looked at a couple of videos but hadn't found one as clear as that. Looks like I was on the right track that jumping the battery power terminal to the small ignition terminal engages the solenoid rather than bypassing it. I thought that jumping the two larger posts on the solenoid sends power directly to the starter (bypassing the solenoid) but I wasn't sure about that because I didn't see the connection between the solenoid and starter when I took a look. This was exactly what I needed to see!

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The narrator's voice really makes the whole video IMHO.

Ha! Couldn't agree more!!! I was going to comment on it, but then I thought I'd keep it to myself incase it was someone you knew or something like that!

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You might want to just consider buying a new solenoid / starter altogether http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-2231-new-marine-starter-mercruiser-30-82l-96-on-clark-volvo-penta.aspx

At that price I figure why mess w/ a rebuild.

Jeff

Wow thanks a lot for the link...I might just do that because I'm a little unsure what's going on at this point. Tried to jump it while in the boat and nothing was happening but I may not have been making good contact with the screwdriver I was using. Pulled the started and tried the same tests with my jump box outside the boat and it looked to be operating as it should.

Going to bring it to Napa or something to have them test it. There's a LOT of rust on it and I was having a tough time getting a solid ground on the starter case at first so at that price I'm really liking the idea of just getting a new one. It certainly looks like the correct one, but can anyone else confirm that it is? The price seems too good to be true considering it's $320 on Bakes:

https://bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=2352

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I pulled the starter off my 06 VLX Monsoon 350 on Sunday, checked the AC Delco part #, verified it matched on dbelectronics.com, and made the purchase. The starter was just delivered to my doorstep this morning and I plan to install it this evening. I can also test it b/c I installed a Perko flush valve so I can hook up a garden hose and crank it right here in my backyard.

I pulled the starter b/c I would turn the key, hear the metallic "CLACK" (which is the starter relay), but the starter wouldn't crank/turn the flywheel. I suspected a problem with either the starter motor or the starter solenoid. Upon removing the starter (2 bolts, 2 or 3 wires) and doing a simple test w/ a battery, the shaft would pop out but the gear wouldn't rotate.

I agree re: the bakes starter. A starter & solenoid for $55 is unheard of, not sure how they can turn a profit with that price point. At the same time, it probably shows the type of markup when going through a reseller of an OEM product w/ a brand name on it. They're probably the exact same part at the end of the day, you're just skipping 2-3 middle-men.

I'll update you later tonight.

- Jeff

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SAE J1171... yes it's a marine starter. Got it in, started on 7 of 7 tries, perfect. They even included new mounting bolts and a printout showing it passed all tests after manufacturing/assembly.

Jeff

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Hey thanks for all the replies! I went to Napa after work yesterday to have the starter I pulled tested. Unfortunately the two guys there didn't know too much about starters but their test said the solenoid 'failed.' I asked for the details and they showed me on the screen but apparently it wasn't hooked up to a printer. Off-hand I believe the test said that the solenoid required something like 27 AMPs - the guy said he thought that was high but I'm not sure.

Anyway, they weren't much help finding me just a replacement solenoid (I told them I thought you could just an automotive solenoid - not the starter of course) but they actually had the starter in-stock at the store. Their price was $240, but when I told the guy it needed to be about half that since I could get one from DB Electric for $55 he looked into it and said he could give me the "marina price" of $150 so I decided to just take it. My current starter had a LOT of rust on it so it certainly didn't inspire confidence. I think I'd still like to look into getting the solenoid replaced since that's supposed to be relatively cheap so I have it as a backup.

The Napa starter has a 2-year warranty so at least that made me feel a little better about paying almost 3 times the price of the DB Electric one. I checked them out and found them on both eBay and Amazon in addition to their website. Reviews on Amazon didn't particularly inspire confidence, but considering you could get 2 starters for less than I paid at Napa I'd say it's probably worth the risk. I think I kind of 'caved in' and got it because I was so impressed by the fact that they had one in stock and the guy gave me such a discount from the initial price. I'll have to remember to post the part number when I get home today for anyone that needs it in the future.

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Just thought I'd follow-up incase someone needs a replacement starter in a pinch sometime. The pare number of the starter I got from NAPA is 18-5913. As I mentioned, the NAPA I dropped into to test my starter actually had it in stock (and I'm not in an area with a lot of boats). Retail was $240 I believe but the salesman gave me the "marina price" of $150.

Definitely really happy with it so far. I now realize that my starter solenoid on the 'old' starter has been going out for a while. With this new starter it sounds like my engine has no choice but to start immediately. Now I just need to find somewhere that can replace the solenoid on my old starter so I can have it as a backup (not that I anticipate needing it anytime soon).

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just thought I'd follow-up incase someone needs a replacement starter in a pinch sometime. The pare number of the starter I got from NAPA is 18-5913. As I mentioned, the NAPA I dropped into to test my starter actually had it in stock (and I'm not in an area with a lot of boats). Retail was $240 I believe but the salesman gave me the "marina price" of $150.

Definitely really happy with it so far. I now realize that my starter solenoid on the 'old' starter has been going out for a while. With this new starter it sounds like my engine has no choice but to start immediately. Now I just need to find somewhere that can replace the solenoid on my old starter so I can have it as a backup (not that I anticipate needing it anytime soon).

Good call on getting the NAPA Starter as long as it marine rated as opposed to El Camino Rated. Consider junking the old starter. I took my old starter apart and I can tell you it was a miracle that it worked at all. You will never need the old one again.

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Just thought I'd follow-up incase someone needs a replacement starter in a pinch sometime. The pare number of the starter I got from NAPA is 18-5913. As I mentioned, the NAPA I dropped into to test my starter actually had it in stock (and I'm not in an area with a lot of boats). Retail was $240 I believe but the salesman gave me the "marina price" of $150.

Definitely really happy with it so far. I now realize that my starter solenoid on the 'old' starter has been going out for a while. With this new starter it sounds like my engine has no choice but to start immediately. Now I just need to find somewhere that can replace the solenoid on my old starter so I can have it as a backup (not that I anticipate needing it anytime soon).

Good call on getting the NAPA Starter as long as it marine rated as opposed to El Camino Rated. Consider junking the old starter. I took my old starter apart and I can tell you it was a miracle that it worked at all. You will never need the old one again.

Thanks! It's definitely a marine starter and its still working out great. Like you said - definitely makes me think the old starter was a piece of junk. Haven't even bothered to have it looked at yet...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

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