MXZ 24 or G23 Purchase

[wakeboarder3780]

So I'm getting confused by the throttle's used between the two systems. I currently plan to buy a G23 for my next boat unless malibu fixes the stupidly small access hatches on the 24 MXZ (and the surf wake starts impressing me more) so I am definitely interested in the facts.

From some reading I did on PN found here it sounds like the "throttle by wire" throttle on nautiques actually still have 2 wires still (A gear wire and a throttle wire that go to a sensor mechanism) instead of simply having the throttle itself sense position? Is anyone *really* in the know on how the 2 different throttles are constructed?

I always had an assumption since I drove the malibu TBW that it simply had a sensor built into it to sense position (no cables, just electrical wires running to the computer). Is that how ours work? If the nautqiues really work like i described above - why?? Why the hell would you introduce cables that run to a sensor module instead of just making the shifter the sensor module itself?

Edited May 12, 2013 by wakeboarder3780

[nyryan2001]

3780- not sure why... Per se... But they do not have the smooth and effortless throttle like in the Malibus. It's not like a semi-froze 1985 outboard Envinrude... But not the effortless TBW in the new Malibus. If a silky smooth throttle is a determining factor in your boat purchase, don't consider a G23. Personally, it's noticeable to me, took getting used to, but not an issue.

The G23 NSS surf wake is awesome across the spectrum: no ballast, stock ballast.... Still working on the super heavy sac'd out dialing that in, ton of factors there as you add weight.

Yesterday had my 8yr old ropeless waist high (for him) port side No ballast at all with the NSS. That was awesome.

What small access hatches are you talking about on the 24 MXZ.

Edited May 12, 2013 by nyryan2001

[Nordicron]

Barefoot I don't understand why your beating up on Ryan. I've read all his posts on this thread and don't see any contradiction. His posts are very informative and don't seem full of false hype and owner goggle ranting that is so typical of some on all these forums. I think your just being alittle over protective of BU.

[hoag4147]

So I'm getting confused by the throttle's used between the two systems. I currently plan to buy a G23 for my next boat unless malibu fixes the stupidly small access hatches on the 24 MXZ (and the surf wake starts impressing me more) so I am definitely interested in the facts.

From some reading I did on PN found here it sounds like the "throttle by wire" throttle on nautiques actually still have 2 wires still (A gear wire and a throttle wire that go to a sensor mechanism) instead of simply having the throttle itself sense position? Is anyone *really* in the know on how the 2 different throttles are constructed?

I always had an assumption since I drove the malibu TBW that it simply had a sensor built into it to sense position (no cables, just electrical wires running to the computer). Is that how ours work? If the nautqiues really work like i described above - why?? Why the hell would you introduce cables that run to a sensor module instead of just making the shifter the sensor module itself?

simple answer is PCM drivetrain still utilizes cable to engage (fwd/rev) after that all electronic...

not sure why malibu is the only one to utilize electronic shift relay

[jrz1]

Have to say this pisses me off a bit. I will be putting a new G25 in the water this coming weekend and will be able to see for myself, but the Nautique marketing materials clearly espouse an all-new "Digital Throttle Control" which, after having driven my 247 for 2 years, made me assume it had the same fly by wire feel to it. It's not going to kill me at the end of the day if it doesn't have the same feel but I am disappointed to hear NY Ryan's report.

[Night Rider]

Have to say this pisses me off a bit. I will be putting a new G25 in the water this coming weekend and will be able to see for myself, but the Nautique marketing materials clearly espouse an all-new "Digital Throttle Control" which, after having driven my 247 for 2 years, made me assume it had the same fly by wire feel to it. It's not going to kill me at the end of the day if it doesn't have the same feel but I am disappointed to hear NY Ryan's report.

I would not worry about this. I demoed the G 23 in Orlando three weeks ago and did not find this to be an issue. Slightly tighter than Malibu's current system And when under way equally as smooth!

[jrz1]

I would not worry about this. I demoed the G 23 in Orlando three weeks ago and did not find this to be an issue. Slightly tighter than Malibu's current system And when under way equally as smooth!

Thanks

[85 Barefoot]

Barefoot I don't understand why your beating up on Ryan. I've read all his posts on this thread and don't see any contradiction. His posts are very informative and don't seem full of false hype and owner goggle ranting that is so typical of some on all these forums. I think your just being alittle over protective of BU.

Beating up on? I simply pointed out his posts contradict themselves. One on hand the G23 is "punchy", "manueuverable" and "not even completed filled with 2800lbs ballast did it handle like a barge", and then a few weeks later says "LEFT turns at slow idle speeds are certainly into the barge like category". I didn't "protect" bu one bit other than say in my defense, when my character and "credibility" were publicly questioned, that I do in fact support bu because I've had nothing but great experiences. Is that owner's goggles? Sure, but that has nothing to do with asking about the accuracy of Ryan's driving report.

[nyryan2001]

85- no one will ever say you dont have the experience as you outlined for us in your water resume.

What do you lack is the ability to make and objective assessment regarding any dialog ref Malibu or any other brand of boat. you consistently exaggerate severity/extent of flaws in other boats, minimize problems and flaws with Malibu...and umm ya.. exaggerate capabilities. Thats why you lack credibility, not due to lack of expereince.

One thing I taught my boys and younger folks here at work, is at the point you gotta tell people the amazing things you have done in the past to establish credibility to win/convince someone of something now, you've already lost. It should be apparent.

My Malibu water resume: I unfortuneatly did not have a good experience with Malibu/Indmar. I paid top dollar for a poorly built boat(4 hard fails, 20+ smaller ones), was refused service by a supposed nationwide network, constantly broke down and expereinced hack job level service x2 and observed unethical practices x2 from 2 separate Malibu Dealers. After this last ethical issue and hack job, I was done with Malibu, regardless of how big the 247 surf wave was. Yep i know the argument: "Malibu sells thousands of boats and wouldnt be where it is today if it did this often". you are right, and its irrelavent. it happened to me, and likely others.

Tell your buddy Jack he should have a dealer meeting void all the fanfare and BS, and have a working meeting to have his dealers write and agree to an ethics code and list of things customers can expect being a Malibu customer. It should be big, clear and hung in every dealership. I acknowlege that the majority of Bu dealers already conduct themseleves in this manner, it would "tighten' up those few who operate in the margins. All of them would sell more boats and make more money as a result. Its clear to me owning a Malibu isnt for folks who move often away from home dealer.

Done with you in this thread, if you want to continue this, start another and we'll take it there.

[85 Barefoot]

Ryan, you said: "everyone knows you have ZERO credibility in anything related to a serious discussion pros/cons." And now its that I can't "make and objective assessment regarding any dialog ref Malibu or any other brand of boat"? So apparently credibility is dependent on agreement with you? Just because I think it is utterly ridiculous that a $100,000 boat and up won't allow for more than 2 board racks, takes water over the transom, uses a timer for ballast fill and I don't like seadec doesn't mean squat for whether I can be objective or whether I have credibility. Since I'm not your kid and I don't work for you, I don't care what life lessons you teach them, but when someone calls my integrity into question as you did, your going to get a response, especially when you suggest that I'm motivated by personal gain. For the record, I didn't gratutitously say anything about myself, I RESPONDED to your statements and baseless suggestions. There's a big difference and anyone reading this knows it.

As to your "water resume", over and over you've posted it, at times even including naming names on here with a pre-conceived "plan" for what you planned to do to "warn" others about Malibu. We get it, you had a bad experience and you think Malibu has a company-wide ethics problem. We actually all got it the first time.

Lastly, Jack wouldn't know me from you, and I wouldn't know you from him. I have been lucky enough to meet some factory workers during my several trips to the factory to pick up my buddy and I's boats though. But they wouldn't know me from you either.

[TrickyNicky]

Would the two of you drop it, I think the members of TMC can make our own opinions without your views on each other. C'mon guys, this isn't wakeworld!

[85 Barefoot]

I just asked about a review.

[TrickyNicky]

And at this point your BOTH reviewing each other.

And last I checked this is a 24mxz vs g23 thread not an 85 barefoot vs nyryan2001 thread.

[Tims]

Ha!!!!!!

85, you are the king of button pushing.

[TrickyNicky]

And to add anything to this thread, I don't mind the looks of the g23 at all but I do feel the freeboard would be a turn off. I remember a thread a couple years ago comparing a crown line and one of the things mentioned was that inboards are boats that "connect" you to the water. It's about being on the water, not being on a boat, is any of that lost in the G?

[nyryan2001]

I'll be sure to also disclose issues I've had to date with the G23:

Windshield foldover metal rub on the other side, cosmetic, will need to be re powder coated

Some issue with OEM stereo and the NSS.. Sometimes when NSS deploys it resets/ interferes with the stereo playing

Otherwise to date both boat and dealer exceed expectations

[nyryan2001]

Tricky- yesterday I surfed my 8yr old son by myself.... So you can imagine being very careful and close on each approach... And talking to him, coaching him etc... Yep you are a little higher... Your elbow is not at the waterline... But it's not a problem, that never occurred to me as an issue.

[TrickyNicky]

Tricky- yesterday I surfed my 8yr old son by myself.... So you can imagine being very careful and close on each approach... And talking to him, coaching him etc... Yep you are a little higher... Your elbow is not at the waterline... But it's not a problem, that never occurred to me as an issue.

Would never consider it an "issue". I've just always been a fan of the way inboards are so low to the water and personal with the rider. Glad it hasn't had much effect. That thing looks HUGE on a trailer. Any idea the difference in freeboard compared to the bu? (Not sure if freeboard is the funnel to waterline but that's what I'm talking about). As an aside does the windshield extend past the driver, ie are you talking over it to a rider or around the back?

[nyryan2001]

The windshield chatting to a downed rider dynamics are about the same as was in my 247. You don't need to use the flip up bolster... Just kinda sit-up straight and crane you head over to chat as you pass by. I would estimate you sit 6-8" higher perhaps. Much of the hull sits below the waterline also. 7000lb boat as it sits in the water.

[nyryan2001]

Water over the transom, yes you can with 2800lbs to a dead stop from 22 mph. Slow down reasonably moderate it won't do it. Happened to me 1 time when i tried to do it, maybe 10 gallons? Show me a Malibu with 2800 that won't take a wave over the bow 30-50gals+. No waves over the bow for me yet.

2 board racks. Valid point. You could add aftermarket ones. Only had 2 on my 247. However with the compartments much much larger, I keep 2 large knee boards and 3 wake surfs in the compartments. Could not do that on the 247. The observer's compartment is 2-3x larger, it's massive. Batteries and cooler mid center floor clear out compartments quite a bit. Funny, guys on here are ditching OEM Bu racks for aftermarket ones, Samson I think. Folks are sewing surf pockets in to the biminis.

The teak looking sea deck. Valid point if it is repulsive to you. Mine is the gray color.... Coming in I didn't know what to think about it.... There is an in-person quality to it that is hard to describe. Doesn't get hot, doesn't hold water, dries quick and is soft. kids smashing chips into it no issue. Doesn't hold sand. All I can tell you is I never want carpet again. I have not had the Deckadence or those others to compare.... But spend a day in a boat with it wet, hot in and out.... Then judge for yourself. It's grown on me and I love it, not cheap to the feel at all.

Jabscos will operate off timers but do have run dry. Also make plumbing twin 1100s sucked flat when empty easy. Also only thru hulls to clutter the side of the boat are 2: bilge and sac overflow 4 total vs 9? for wake setters. They fill and drain thru same in hull bottom.

Lots of negatives there, most a matter of style really.. Here are positives.

Plow thru 2ft rollers and not one rattle, creak or noise from anything from anywhere. All you will hear is engine and waves hitting the hull.

NSS. Beginners and intermediates will be just fine on stock ballast alone.

22 mph wake is ridiculous.

Bimini. Weird shape... Fastest best shade most solid I've seen. 30 seconds up or stored. Strong, I can do pull-ups off it.

Tower-truly 1 man 1 finger operation to collapse and store. Can store down with Bimini.

Compartment Storage. Huge, seriously 2x a 247.

All compartments on hinges gas shocks. No more fighting with box anchor in hand with rollers coming in. Don't need to fold box anchor. Also, gain bow under seat storage. Bow Sunpad or walkthru, your choice, it stores in place.

Huge uncluttered storage with batteries and full cooler in center floor.

Also part of that price jump includes 1/2 loop cooling, puts AF in the engine... Raw water still in the manifolds, heat exchanger, Vdrive, tranny.

Rear facing sliding center seat. Wife loves it watching surfing. 7-8? Rear facing seats.

Boarding walk thru step surfaces. You only have to step on vinyl 1 place if you have to.

OEM stereo worse than Malibu IMO. Polk... But not done right. If Malibu is a B- for OEM, this is a C-.

Very heavy to tow 8500lbs, matches perfectly to boatmate. This is my first boatmate..exceptionally well made. Wow.

Very tall: 11'1" to anchor light.

[Fman]

Sometimes people have to agree to disagree... both of these boats are amazing, everyone finds a boat brand that works for them. The dealer is a huge part of ownership, good ones are priceless to keeping you on the water.

I will say I dont blame Ryan for not purchasing another Malibu, if I had his experience of ownership I would not have come back either. He had a seriously problematic boat that Malibu did not stand behind and get it fixed properly, and a failed dealer network to support him. So basically Malibu lost a customer who would have been in a new Malibu if his ownership experience would have been better....hopefully he is a very small percentage of Malibu owners.

And the G23 is an amazing boat, not a huge fan if how it looks, but the functionality of the boat imo was so well designed (storage, ballast, seating options, tower). And props to Nautique for allowing older boats to upgrade to NSS... that is a nice customer perk, rather than have to go buy a new boat...

Edited May 14, 2013 by Fman

[85 Barefoot]

2 board racks. Valid point. You could add aftermarket ones. Only had 2 on my 247. However with the compartments much much larger, I keep 2 large knee boards and 3 wake surfs in the compartments. Could not do that on the 247. The observer's compartment is 2-3x larger, it's massive. Batteries and cooler mid center floor clear out compartments quite a bit. Funny, guys on here are ditching OEM Bu racks for aftermarket ones, Samson I think. Folks are sewing surf pockets in to the biminis.

It's great that you find so many positives about the G. But I have to point out the obvious. For one, you cna't add an more racks to the G. Ask wakeboarder3780 I think who got hammerred on planetnautique for questioning that. Please point out a link to anyone on here "ditching" OEM racks for afetrmarket ones. I'm pretty "regular" on here and have not seen that, nor does Samson even have a G3 rack on its website. The G3 is predrilled for another set of factory spinners or fixed. Also, link to people sewing surf pockets into biminis. Are you referring to the Z5? These are really just questions, you don't need to respond with anything other than the answers please.

[85 Barefoot]

Ha!!!!!!

85, you are the king of button pushing.

If people feel like their buttons get pushed cuz I ask why we are provided different info than provoded elsewhere, that's not my problem. My buttons do get pushed when someone calls my integrity into question.

[shawndoggy]

It's great that you find so many positives about the G. But I have to point out the obvious. For one, you cna't add an more racks to the G. Ask wakeboarder3780 I think who got hammerred on planetnautique for questioning that. Please point out a link to anyone on here "ditching" OEM racks for afetrmarket ones. I'm pretty "regular" on here and have not seen that, nor does Samson even have a G3 rack on its website. The G3 is predrilled for another set of factory spinners or fixed. Also, link to people sewing surf pockets into biminis. Are you referring to the Z5? These are really just questions, you don't need to respond with anything other than the answers please.

look at bobby brights new 247 thread 85. I know he did the samsons, and maybe surf pockets too. why is that a big deal to you.... your post reads as being super defensive about it. btw, here's the first hit on google it you search "samson racks on g3 tower":http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/42271-new-samson-surf-surf-rack-on-g3-tower/

Edited May 14, 2013 by shawndoggy

[nyryan2001]

happy to discuss. Not trying to be difficult, but its been happening as far as the racks... I dont want to call out by name and drag folks into this, also with the pockets. some folks prefer the double surf and some of the other options vs the combo racks, and doing the swap and selling the OEMs is cheaper becuase they are so pricey. Also as far as being such an issue, only like 2/10 or so folks have 4 racks? Seems a niche issue that has a simple aftermarket solution. But yes, valid point. Nautique could have put a 2nd pair of lugs on the tower to accept a 2nd set of racks.

and you certainly can add aftermarket racks... pick your brand of aftermarket swivel rack..mount them there above my others where my Revs are. folks who say it cant be done must not be aware you can invert the OEM racks to creat more space. yes you'd have to pick and choose the placement of the wakeboards with boots, but doable. I dont need a 2nd set of racks. Mine here in this pic are inverted, creates the space you need for not head hitting speaker installation, or it could be a 2nd set of racks...obviously you need to send them out to get poweder coated to match, considered having that done for my Rev clamps.