"$10,000k + reasonable for purchase install of remanufactured 350 longblock? (Monsoon 340)

[85 Barefoot]

Tim, yes I fail to see the issue with companies in the business of making money doing so. If there was a viable market for the inboard power industry to design their own, they'd do so, or someone would do so. As it is, the inboard power market does nothing but shrink anyway (from Chrysler to Ford to mercruiser etc.). True, ILmor now in the mix but that model is totally difefrent since Penske owned Ilmor already and they make a LOT of engines already, but are still based off the same engines we get from Indmar. I also see nothing wrong with pricing a premium engine option accordingly. If you don't want to pay for an LSA you have 2 options: 1) don't 2) buy your own, marinize it and install it and cross your fingers nothing happens. Not everyone even wants the LSA anyway, so, the current model doesn't require them to but doesn't prohibit anyone from buying one if they do. What I'm gathering tim is that you're just not happy having to pay 20k for an LSA due to markup. Prices shown in this thread show an almost $10,000 difference in wholesale pricing of the LSA to a SBC. An extra 10 for installation, marinization, warranty (and profit) doesn't even sound that unreasonable to me. Do you have similar gripes to apple when they charge $150 more for 16 more gigs on an ipad?

nitrous, diesels haven't taken off because they are SO expensive. Mastercraft had a diesel offering, and a hyundai diesel is now commercially available but very expensive. I'm personally familiar with a diesel-powered Malibu competitor that the dealer put in as a one-off, but you could have bought a few LSAs for the price of that thing and it was simply easier for the owner cuz the boat was on a yacht on which everything was diesel.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Diesel would be cool until you rode behind one.

I think the point of the real discussion here is that a GM marine crate engine is the same engine indmar starts with. (Shawndoggy said this originally)

Bolt your indmar stuff on it and it is NO different than the engine that came with your boat new. I wouldn't even mention it if I was selling it.

[Woodski]

Just a reminder and to add to some of the topics brought up in the thread, if you do decide to get a GM crate engine, you might have to swap out the cam to get what you are expecting. The "crate" engine used by the marinizers does come with a specific marine cam which improves low end torque but might not have the top end breathing of some of the other cams available. Not an issue as the marine engine does not see 5,000+ rpm anyway. There was a lot of dyno development work done on the marine engine to optimize it for a prop curve (not the same as pavement) and for low octane fuels at a marina.

Also, don't forget the marinizers have to consider all the various uses and safety regulations when they offer a marinized engine to the public. Thinks like salt water protection, vapor protection, high humidity environment, EPA/NMMA regulations, etc. drive content and cost to these units. An individual might not be bound to the same criteria simply looking around for a replacement long block.

It depends on what you really want focus your boat use on as to any modifications you might want to do as you rebuild. For my use (slalom & barefoot) I changed quite a few components to achieve my objective. I will tell you that the ZZ4 cam and/or a set of 1.6 rockers are a nice addition. Mine were coupled with a set of fast burn heads and several other changes. All in all, it turned out great for my use but I can't tell you if it would work well as a fully loaded wakeboard application if that is what you are after.

[Tims]

Tim, yes I fail to see the issue with companies in the business of making money doing so. If there was a viable market for the inboard power industry to design their own, they'd do so, or someone would do so. As it is, the inboard power market does nothing but shrink anyway (from Chrysler to Ford to mercruiser etc.). True, ILmor now in the mix but that model is totally difefrent since Penske owned Ilmor already and they make a LOT of engines already, but are still based off the same engines we get from Indmar. I also see nothing wrong with pricing a premium engine option accordingly. If you don't want to pay for an LSA you have 2 options: 1) don't 2) buy your own, marinize it and install it and cross your fingers nothing happens. Not everyone even wants the LSA anyway, so, the current model doesn't require them to but doesn't prohibit anyone from buying one if they do. What I'm gathering tim is that you're just not happy having to pay 20k for an LSA due to markup. Prices shown in this thread show an almost $10,000 difference in wholesale pricing of the LSA to a SBC. An extra 10 for installation, marinization, warranty (and profit) doesn't even sound that unreasonable to me. Do you have similar gripes to apple when they charge $150 more for 16 more gigs on an ipad?

nitrous, diesels haven't taken off because they are SO expensive. Mastercraft had a diesel offering, and a hyundai diesel is now commercially available but very expensive. I'm personally familiar with a diesel-powered Malibu competitor that the dealer put in as a one-off, but you could have bought a few LSAs for the price of that thing and it was simply easier for the owner cuz the boat was on a yacht on which everything was diesel.

85

My intention is not to continually argue with you about the details on weather or not it is feasable. You are correct that I am not happy with the standard offering and the cost associated with upgrading to what should, in my mind, be standard. You believe that all the prices we are charged are fair and base that on educated guessing. Of course, I am doing the same thing based off of my experiences with other capital intensive hobbies I have enjoyed and are similar to these boats in terms of cost and volume. I live 5 miles from the plant, have been in there many times, and can tell you that there is quite a bit of productivity potential there which could be passed down to the customer. I base that on my experience in manufacturing and costing. Like I said, the numbers might not make sense and you may be 100% correct. I just want to keep the pressure on Malibu to improve. Simply aruging that Malibu is the best at what they do and there are no better options does not lead to improvement for the conusmer.

[85 Barefoot]

What "productivity potential" could be passed down to the customer did you observe? I must have missed the dynos and engine castings. The factory is at full production and already make more parts, to my knowledge, than anyone. Heck CC doesn't even make their own towers.

Tim let me ask this since it came up in another thread, are you as critical of correct craft and PCM as you are Malibu and Indmar? Because if so (and I don't see how you couldn't since the PCM premium is higher than that of an Indmar) is it not enough anecdotal evidence that every single inboard boat manufacturer has always sourced their engines for a reason? If you think LSA should be "standard", what do you think of a G23 with a 6.0, a far bigger "dog" than your VLX monsoon combo at almost twice the price? Fact is, only "pressure" any company feels is from sales. Correct Craft doesn't apparently fele need to give a $100,000 boat more standard power than the 6.0 because, well, lets face it the G is all the rage. Malibu been market leader for almost ten years. I'm glad you think you're "keeping pressure" on Malibu but your gripes sound nothing more to me than sour grapes that all boats are not made with your particular definition of what should be standard and there's a long enough thread on that already. If you wnat to keep "pressure" on Malibu, buy whatever other boat comes along with a proprietary engine that meets your needs no matter the cost. Then maybe they'll catch on. Until then, good luck keeping "pressure" on them to do something different when they're running at capacity when their largest competitor and former market leader was on the precipice of bankruptcy and laid off more than half of its workforce.

[Tims]

Sorry man, I don't want to engage you on this topic anymore via open forum. We have already derailed it enough, my fault. Feel free to PM me if you like. You have some good points.

[85 Barefoot]

Tim, no prob, I think this topic is fair though, what's an Indmar engine worth, right? If not, my apologies too. I would pm you but I'm full. cheers

[CliffB]

Just a reminder and to add to some of the topics brought up in the thread, if you do decide to get a GM crate engine, you might have to swap out the cam to get what you are expecting. The "crate" engine used by the marinizers does come with a specific marine cam which improves low end torque but might not have the top end breathing of some of the other cams available. Not an issue as the marine engine does not see 5,000+ rpm anyway. There was a lot of dyno development work done on the marine engine to optimize it for a prop curve (not the same as pavement) and for low octane fuels at a marina.

Also, don't forget the marinizers have to consider all the various uses and safety regulations when they offer a marinized engine to the public. Thinks like salt water protection, vapor protection, high humidity environment, EPA/NMMA regulations, etc. drive content and cost to these units. An individual might not be bound to the same criteria simply looking around for a replacement long block.

It depends on what you really want focus your boat use on as to any modifications you might want to do as you rebuild. For my use (slalom & barefoot) I changed quite a few components to achieve my objective. I will tell you that the ZZ4 cam and/or a set of 1.6 rockers are a nice addition. Mine were coupled with a set of fast burn heads and several other changes. All in all, it turned out great for my use but I can't tell you if it would work well as a fully loaded wakeboard application if that is what you are after.

Good points Woodski, for sure. I spoke with one of the guys from www.marineenginedepot.com a few months back when I was looking into some Vortec upgrades for my lowly 5.7 260hp V8 in my old Skier and he said the $2,650 vortec marine engine they sell has the marine cam in it already. He said these engines are coming directly off a GM assembly line dedicated exclusively for marine use. Sounds pretty good, heck of a lot of engine for the $!.

Edited February 2, 2013 by CliffB

[MLBurns]

One thing to keep in mind, if you buy a motor from someone other than the dealer. Who will pay for the labor if the motor fails during the warranty period? If you are mechanically skilled, buy the cheaper long block and do it yourself. if not I would take it to a "reputable dealer" and let them pick the motor for you. If not you might be riding with your buddies next summer while fighting warranty claims.

[Harrison256]

Bump

Now accepting offers for the boat if anyone would like to take on this project.

I chose this post to start the listing so that everyone gets a full disclosure look at it.

PM me to make an offer or to request pictures, etc.

[Bawshogg]

QV UAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ```````````````Q

[Bawshogg]

Obviously my 16 month old son has learned to post. WATCHOUT! Lol.

[Harrison256]

Got an offer for 9k firm I have been considering. Its from a friend and I'm sure a low-ball but if anyone thinks thats a steal and can do better please PM me soon, I'll probably accept his offer by Monday

[shawndoggy]

Where is martinarcher on this thread? This kind of opportunity seems to be right up his alley...

[shawndoggy]

Did somebody take Harrison up on this? I'm dying for a project thread now that Boz got his boat put back together.

[built2rev]

I am actually in talks with him right now. I should have mine sold today and told him i would make the trip to TX this weekend, BUT he told me i maybe too late he has someone else that had wanted to purchase it. So we will see. Fingers crossed i can get something worked out!!!

Did somebody take Harrison up on this? I'm dying for a project thread now that Boz got his boat put back together.

[nyryan2001]

i did some checking on this just out of curiousity.... not sure what hook ups everyone has with their dealers and mechanics.... but $7-10k is the going rate in the Dallas area to do an engine swap for freeze damage and thats to a refurb block, not new... and thats with the well known folks who back up their work and will stay with you afterwards to fix any kinks that develop afterwards. Of course you can probrably find someone to do it for cheaper... but you get what you pay for. $10k is on the high end pricewise yes, but by no means unreasonable for this market. There just isnt quality reputable folks out there doing these jobs for $5k here. just in my short time in this area... QUALITY and TRUSTWORTHY folks you can trust your boat to.... who know what they are doing, who wont do a hack job and stand behind their work are far and few between.

Yes if you have a hoist in your garage, you know what you are doing and you have a 32,000 piece tool set, required software and everything else you can likely do this yourself way cheaper. Kudos on you.

Also consider the premium of the price of the job in the Jan-July timeframe vs off season. You pay for that.

[built2rev]

Well being that I am a assisant Part Manager at a GM Dealership leads me too able to have some very good contacts. And i do actuall have a hoist and a pretty good tool assortment at in my garage so my hope is that this project comes togher. It is something i enjoy. The thrill of the build!!!

i did some checking on this just out of curiousity.... not sure what hook ups everyone has with their dealers and mechanics.... but $7-10k is the going rate in the Dallas area to do an engine swap for freeze damage and thats to a refurb block, not new... and thats with the well known folks who back up their work and will stay with you afterwards to fix any kinks that develop afterwards. Of course you can probrably find someone to do it for cheaper... but you get what you pay for. $10k is on the high end pricewise yes, but by no means unreasonable for this market. There just isnt quality reputable folks out there doing these jobs for $5k here. just in my short time in this area... QUALITY and TRUSTWORTHY folks you can trust your boat to.... who know what they are doing, who wont do a hack job and stand behind their work are far and few between.

Yes if you have a hoist in your garage, you know what you are doing and you have a 32,000 piece tool set, required software and everything else you can likely do this yourself way cheaper. Kudos on you.

Also consider the premium of the price of the job in the Jan-July timeframe vs off season. You pay for that.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Yup I gave it up. Even though I had the hole shot, Built was in a little better position to buy it as he could make the drive and tow it himself. Shipping was proving difficult secure.

[martinarcher]

How did I miss this... Shawn is right, I would have been all over that project! Good luck with the project. Make sure to start a project thread for the rest of us DIY junkies!

[Lance B. Johnson]

How did I miss this... Shawn is right, I would have been all over that project! Good luck with the project. Make sure to start a project thread for the rest of us DIY junkies!

How did I miss this... Shawn is right, I would have been all over that project! Good luck with the project. Make sure to start a project thread for the rest of us DIY junkies!

Ya I won't be visiting that thread!

[Nitrousbird]

Damn, 9k??!! I do not need any more projects and I couldn't have kept the boat (22' limit where we boat), there is a good 10-15k flip potential in that boat.