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Overheat, now no start and a bad noise.


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Beautiful day yesterday, air 50, lake 42, no wind. Boat had been drained. Droped her in and started right up, no leaks, no worries. Idled across the lake to pick up another skier. Never turned off the boat, engine temp was rising nicely. As we headed away from the 2nd dock the overheat buzzer went off and the display read "temp, 206". Immediately turned it off and started touching surfaces and squeezing hoses. Engine didn't seem abnormally hot to the touch but there didn't seem to be any water in the hoses. Couldn't pull any water through the shower. No water in the heater. Popped the cover off the raw water pump and no water came gushing through. Must haved had ice in the suction side or pick up?

Tried to start it up and it wouldn't start and made bad noises. Kinda like a higher compression motor with a timing issue. Paddled back to the wrong side of the pond and put it up on my buddies lift. Drained everything and there was half the usual water in the manifolds, half the usual water on the knock sensor side of the block and about the usual amount on the non knock sensor side, so it had been getting SOME water.

Let it cool over night and dipped her back in to see if it would start. No start, and a bad bad knock noise about once per revelution.

I'll get her towed over to the ramp as soon as the weather breaks. Any speculation on what I have to look forward to?

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Hopefully nothihng serious. Good that you were just idling. But the noise issue makes me wonder if the starter didnt' go bad, or worse, something like the timing chain. Also good you didn't hear any knocking before the alarm went off.

Keep us posted,

Steve B.

edit: maybe the raw water pump is making the noise because of bad fins. WMH's post made me wonder.

Edited by Steve B.
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If you were not getting water, the temp gauge would be reading wrong.... May have gotten hotter than you think....hopefully not enough to hurt bearing..or a burn a valve etc but a knock is never a good thing

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Most likely the impeller pump did not prime when you dropped it in the water. When mine is drained dry I have to rev the engine RPM's momentarily to prime the pump and get water flowing. Would bet money you trashed the impeller due to friction heat so you should replace that along with the gasket between the cover plate and pump housing. The engine noise worries me, but hopefully nothing serious. Best of luck!

EDIT: you for sure want to disconnet and dump the hose out that leads from your impeller pump to your tranny cooler. You will likely find lots of rubber pieces.

Edited by BuFootin
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It's worth checking your water pump on your engine too. When these go bad they typically leak through the bearing (so it's obviously it's in bad shape), but not always. There may be an internal problem with the pump which is making all the racket you're hearing. The impeller should be bronze rather than steel. People sometimes put the automotive water pump (steel impeller) on a marine engine which is always a bad idea, and can create problems.

Good luck!

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Thanks for the sugestions. I checked the impeller that afternoon after I shut it down, it looked to be perfect. I had replaced it this fall during the regular 50 hour maintenance with a Johnson from SkiDim. That's when it struck us that with the cover off, we should have been sinking, but no water was coming through. As I was putting the cover back on, all of a sudden a douche of hot water came through and then a rush of cold water. I pulled the hose between the thermostat housing and the engine water pump and it was dry-ish.

Although I was keeping half an eye on the engine temp, I'll admit I paid no attention to the oil pressure. I did check the dipstick on both the engine and the tranny today and there was no water in either. I'll check the pressure side hose tomorrow for debris. The knock has me worried. Think a valve stuck open and is hitting the top of a piston?

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I agree that it was probably alot hotter than 206* the temp sensor won't register air so once it is out of water.

i would pull and visually inspect all the spark plugs and try to turn the engine over a few rotations, you are watching for water in the cylinders that could have caused hydro lock. If a head cracked and dumped water in a cylinder you could bend a rod or bearing. If it does turn over listen to the cylinders for scratching and scrubbing. I have a boat at my shop with almost the exact same cinerio adding that the # 2 & 4 spark plugs were missing the electrode on the plugs. No water in the cylinders currently but still bound up like the #4 cylinder is seized. Lay your plugs out in the order that thay are removed in in case you notice something unusual about a certain plug.

The boat at the shop is a 94 MC. I'm gonna long block it. Not even gonna tear down the interior of the motor. Too expensive to put back together.

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Hydro lock is the concept I was wrestling with, thanks! I pulled my woolies on, threw a bunch of tools in the moose and headed for the other side of the lake. Pulled all the plugs, which were intact, and spun her up. Here is the result.

Spooge.jpg

By definition, spooge is a little bit of bad left over from a greater good. This ain't good. The other side is similar. Water in #'s 6,7 & 8. Good news, maybe, is it spun freely, no mechanical impacts.

Edited by robtr8
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Hm. Sorry to hear. Were all cylinders that had water on the same side? Maybe in that sense you might be a little lucky. Just a head gasket hopefully.

Things could be worse, so on that subject, Merry Christmas
:)

Steve B.
Edited by Steve B.
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Looks like both heads are coming off..... you have a decision point..... put money into disassembly, repair and reassembly... there is potential upside if the depth of repair is small such as head gaskets or so but the original knock has not been diagnosed.....or move to a reman long block or even a new long block... not sure of your hours etc but it sounds like deeper hurt than head gaskets. Keep us posted on the your path.

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I had a 95 Bryant I.O. that hydro locked due to pulling kill lanyard at about 2000 RPM. Burned out starter when trying to restart (lucky actually) and pulled plugs when I got it home to find water in Cylinders. Turned over, dried out and re lubed all cyls. Mounted new starter, fired right up, and ran perfect for years after. (probably 400 hours put on it before I sold it at 1000+ hours still in great running condition.

Hope your luck is as good. Looks like head gaskets for you.

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If you are going to have a mechanic do the work, take it to him and let him fire it up and listen to the knock prior to pulling the heads.

If you are going to do the work yourself you might replace the plugs and fire it up for a few seconds to listen for a knock. Head gaskets or even cracked heads will not produce a knock. It will produce water in the oil and in the cylinders, (it WILL re hydrolock after running) but not a knock. If it is knocking bad you are probably dollars ahead to plan on a longblock. If no knock, you should pull the heads and take them to machine shop for a magna flux it's kinda like an MRI for the heads. This will show cracks if any. I only suggest you firing it back up and listening for yourself to remind you of how it sounded when you have to choose replacing the heads and see what happens or going ahead and doing a long block. You will spend alot of money tearing into the motor looking for the cause of the knock and rebuilding it. Good luck. Let us know what you find.

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Pull a compression check to see if it was ingestion of water or you cracked/blew a gasket. If it is the latter, you have to pull the heads anyway. If you are holding compression, I'd do a quick valve lash check to make sure you haven't popped a valve. But I'd try to determine all clearances are cool before running it. But knocks are never good.

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The why is on the list of things to figure out. Stuck thermostat seems reasonable. At this point I'm waiting for a break in the weather before I drag a ski buddy and his Tige out to tow me across the lake to the ramp. I got the OK from my boss to bring the boat to work next week and have our mechanic help me with it. Indmar is shut for the holidays so I'll speak with them next week.

As both banks have water but only in 6, 7, & 8, it doesn't seem likely that I cracked both head gaskets or both heads or both banks. It does seem likely I cracked the intake and water distibuted itself evenly from on high, searching out the lowest space. Atleast that's the current theory.

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Since it appears to have at least partially hydro locked, check for a bent rod (measure the piston height at TDC) if the noise turns out to be a rod bearing. A compression test might provide a clue, a leak down test should also be done.

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The why is on the list of things to figure out. Stuck thermostat seems reasonable. At this point I'm waiting for a break in the weather before I drag a ski buddy and his Tige out to tow me across the lake to the ramp. I got the OK from my boss to bring the boat to work next week and have our mechanic help me with it. Indmar is shut for the holidays so I'll speak with them next week.

As both banks have water but only in 6, 7, & 8, it doesn't seem likely that I cracked both head gaskets or both heads or both banks. It does seem likely I cracked the intake and water distibuted itself evenly from on high, searching out the lowest space. Atleast that's the current theory.

You don't really crack a head gasket you blow it out and then here is a path from the water jacket to the cylinder.... Blowing a head gasket is a common failure on overheated engines...again hopefully it is that simple. You can crack heads in a location and only affect single cylinders as it is again a path from water jacket to cylinder.

Great that your boss is offering space and mechanical help.

Edited by G-Mack
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  • 2 weeks later...

Took advantage of the New Years skiers on the 1st and had a Nautique drag my butt across the pond. 24 degrees, wind out of the North at 9, yuck. Got it into the shop and took off the impeller pump so I could get to the crank bolt. Did a leak down and then compression test and everything came up roses. Popped the plenum cover off and there was a small amount of water still sitting on the shelf. :dontknow:

I talked to Indmar and the wrench at Stateamind Watersports and they both think I starved the motor for water by having a slug of ice somewhere. They said there must have been some water in it because it would not have read any temp if it was only looking at air. The likeliest spot is the pressure side of the impeller. I've been counting on the shower to suck that elbow dry and well, maybe it didn't. They recommend sticking it all back together and running it.

Got a new thermostat and gaskets from Stateamind and plugs from O'Reilly. Tomorrow I'll start putting it back together and see what we get.

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toreup_zps7ccb584a.jpg

How's this thing go back together?

I learned from our mechanic that you can use to much anti-seize on the sparking plugs. Apparently it provides too much resistance for the little electrons. I hate being scolded.

It started right up. Tomorrow I'm going to introduce water via a bucket and the quick disconnects I have on the heater core. Wish me luck.

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Thanks, I will keep an eye on the oil. To recap, I believe there was ice in the hose between the raw water pump and the tranny cooler. Apparently the shower is not an effective drain and it takes quite some time for ice to melt. It restricted the water flow and that's how the motor overheated. After I shut it down and opened the raw water pump, the system burped and drew water from the exhaust manifolds into the cylinders, causing the hydro lock. I replaced plugs and thermostat. I really would like to go drive it a bit, especially now that it's 60 degrees out, but the lake is still ice covered.

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You mentioned that you turned on the shower to see if water was getting through....was the engine off when you tried this? Last summer up an arm in the middle of nowhere on Lake Shasta my youngest ran the shower for a little while (engine was not running). We went to leave and engine wouldn't turn over, appeared to be dead battery (2 of them). Finally flagged a person down from the middle of the lake that was nice enough to tow us back to the marina. Dropped in a new battery...nothing. Talked with the mechanic on duty and he asked, "any chance you ran the shower without the motor running?". Yup, you hydro-locked it. I pulled all the plugs and spun it over and blew water out of about 4 cylinders. Put plugs back in and ran it for 30 minutes of so to warm it up and hopefully burn any small amount of water out of the cylinders. Fresh oil change when I got home and all is good. Mechanic told me he usually recommends disabling these showers to help prevent this from happening. I don't remember the dealer ever mentioning the need for the motor to be running....and a quick glance in the owners manual didn't mention it. Lesson learned.

Bob

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