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Retrofit a newer rudder to an old 'Bu Skier....


CliffB

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I just bought a rudder (and rudder box) from a newer Malibu. http://www.ebay.com/itm/290817477357?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

The rudder and rudder box in my '89 Skier is just fine, but I plan on keeping the boat forever. I can envision the shaft wearing over time to the point that it needs replacement or some kind of major fix, such as boring the box and pressing in a sleeve to get the right slip fit tolerance again. I've heard the newer rudders and rudder boxes will go right into an older Skier with the same bolt pattern etc for the box. I'm wondering if anyone has actually done this?

I like that the newer rudders/rudder boxes have provision for a zerk fitting for lubing it up w/o having to take out the rudder. It looks like the rudder box has a teflon liner too, is that the case?

I don't plan on doing anything with this over the winter as I just had my rudder out for new packing and lubrication and it's just fine for now. But I'd like to know what I need to know if I was to do this conversion sometime in the next year or two. I'm guessing I need a new tiller arm.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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I fully intended upgrading mine when I put my exhaust in, but I couldn't get the bottom plate off the hull of the Sunsetter. When I rebuilt my Skier rudder it cam off easily. I figured I would end up damaging the hull on the Sunsetter before it let go. I even tried a chisel and finally said enough was enough. If the bottom plate on your comes off the hull without too much trouble, it would be a pretty easy swap. Just an FYI. The tube on the newer housing is a bit wider than the old housing tube due to the bushings and grease zerks. There is a little rubber doughnut in the hull that probably will have to come out in order to allow the larger tube to pass through the hull, but that would be easy. The shaft is actually smaller on the newer rudder.

Some pics in my thread here of the two. (post #31 is what your interested in)

Also pics of the dissasembly/reassembly in my how to here.

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Thank you Martin, much appreciated. That's really helpful information. Good to see I'm not alone in considering this little upgrade.

Sorry to hear the bottom plate on the Sunsetter wasn't coming off easily - wise choice not to bung it up and chill on doing anything too drastic.

I'm pretty darn sure I'm going to go to the grave with my old Skier, it's just such a lovely little boat....and between now and then I can see that old rudder configuration eventually getting really sloppy. So, at some point I'll make this upgrade happen, and will take pics and post when I do.

Again, thanks Martin.

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Martin, one question...

I haven't received the newer rudder yet, so it's hard for me to tell, but it looks like the newer design does not use shaft packing and a tapered nut, is that right? In other words, the seal is provided by a snug fit between the shaft and the teflon (?) shaft bearing??

Thanks.

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Martin, one question...

I haven't received the newer rudder yet, so it's hard for me to tell, but it looks like the newer design does not use shaft packing and a tapered nut, is that right? In other words, the seal is provided by a snug fit between the shaft and the teflon (?) shaft bearing??

Thanks.

I just replaced my 93 skier shaft, and in doing so I dropped the rudder. Mine is just like above. So I'm hoping the answer to CliffB's question is, yes! When I get there, a sea trial item to watch for sure.

Edited by malibuparadise
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No problem, glad to be able to help.

You are correct, no taper nut or shaft packing. There are upper and lower o-rings in the housing that provide the seal. The only thing that goes on the top of the shaft after install is the key and tiller arm.

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Thanks guys. I received the rudder and rudder box the other day.

The ebay seller said it had been "refurbished" Ah, what? Looks like somebody threw up all over the rudder box and left it to dry. The rudder was nice and shiny but the rudder box looked it had just been pulled out of a swamp. Typical ebay bs.

So, net, I have to rebuild the rudder box. There are two typical looking o-rings in the bore and they were pretty much hard as rocks. Right next to the top teflon bearing there's another seal which looks more complex, more like a dust seal for a wheel bearing - has an internal sprint-loaded lip seal. Does the top teflon bearing come out for access to this seal?

Anybody have any idea where I can get these o-rings and seal from? I can probably spec the o-ring and find those somewhere, just not sure about the other (more complicated) seal.

Thanks

Edited by CliffB
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Thanks guys. I received the rudder and rudder box the other day.

The ebay seller said it had been "refurbished" Ah, what? Looks like somebody threw up all over the rudder box and left it to dry. The rudder was nice and shiny but the rudder box looked it had just been pulled out of a swamp. Typical ebay bs.

So, net, I have to rebuild the rudder box. There are two typical looking o-rings in the bore and they were pretty much hard as rocks. Right next to the top teflon bearing there's another seal which looks more complex, more like a dust seal for a wheel bearing - has an internal sprint-loaded lip seal. Does the top teflon bearing come out for access to this seal?

Anybody have any idea where I can get these o-rings and seal from? I can probably spec the o-ring and find those somewhere, just not sure about the other (more complicated) seal.

Thanks

I have a feeling my rudder box might leak during seatrials, since all this software is surely 20 yrs old...everything you find out, I'm watching closely ;-)

Edited by malibuparadise
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A bit more information here on this one...

So the new rudder and rudder box is now cleaned up and rebuilt. Just for a bit of information about the steps in doing this:

1. The rudder boxes with the teflon bearing at the top and the two zerk fittings looks to be a much better design than the old rudder box which is nothing more than a slip fit bore cast and machined in bronze - no internal seals or o-rings. Sealing is provided by a stuffing box at the top with a tapered bore and a nut/lock nut. The rudder shaft is made of the same bronze as the rudder and it corrodes and wears over time. The bore of the rudder box also corrodes and wears over time. The newer design has a stainless rudder shaft with a seal and two o-rings in the bore of the rudder box. Much better and longer-wearing.

2. The seal in the newer design is a 1.5" OD by 1.0" ID by .25" thick and is held in by an internal c-clip ring. This is right below the top teflon bearing which slips out quite easily. Any bearing supplier has this seal in stock (very standard). The o-rings are standard size you can get at any hardware store.

3. If you have your rudder box out of the boat it makes no sense not to rebuild it as the parts are standard and not expensive - no need to go to a Malibu dealer for the usual markit-up price drill.

4. Always good to replace the zerk fittings as they're cheap and available at any hardware store, and they can corrode and plug over time.

I'll add some updated information when I'm at the point of making the switch from the old rudder to the new rudder. One thing that concerns me a bit is that the newer rudder looks to have a little less steering authority than the older one - probably 20% less surface area. Thinking about having a machine shop weld on an extra inch or two of bronze at the back and fair it in. The newer rudder is a fair bit thicker than the old rudder, which is good for resisting bends and distortion if contact is make with the bottom accidentally (which I try to avoid....)

Edited by CliffB
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Cool. Glad it's coming along. I would strongly steer you away from adding plate to you rudder by welding. Nibral is not a material that can be welded to. I would put it in and try it. That rudder is steering boats that weigh in close to double the weight of your Skier without any problems. If you don't like it for some reason I think you would be further ahead to have a machine shop turn down the 1 1/8" shaft on the old rudder to 1" to fit the new box. That said, I don't think you'll have a problem at all with the new one as is. Take pics and document the change. It will help others down the road. I hope your bottom 4 bolt pate comes off the hull easily!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thank you gents, appreciate the insights and thoughts.

Thanks for steering me away from thinking about welding the Nibral Martin, thinking about it now that would have been a dumb idea (as you pointed out).

Quick update here....

I went over to Marine Hardware (www.marinehardware.com) in Redmond, Washington....just a few miles away from me...and they were wonderfully helpful. Nicest people you could imagine. Incidentally, Redmond is the corporate headquarters (and birthplace) of Microsoft Corporation, and has one of the nicest lakes in the area (Lake Sammamish)....hence, there are a LOT of nice ski boats in the area.

Interestingly, Marine Hardware has been the OEM supplier of hardware (rudders, rudder boxes, shafts, skegs, couplers, etc.) for Malibu for years and years. Every bit of the hardware on my old Skier is still available directly from Marine Hardware. And, prices are very, very reasonable. I needed a rudder arm to fit the newer/updated rudder and rudder box I bought off ebay (original Malibu part same as what's in Martin's thread about rudder rebuilding) and they had the exact original rudder arm in stock for $70 bucks. Just for comparison, I called one of the larger Malibu dealers and they said it would take 2-3 weeks to get in, and it was over $200 bucks. No offense to the dealers, but I'll buy direct just because it's cheaper and faster and I do all my own work. I'm fortunate to have the OEM supplier right in my back yard.

If you need any hardware for your malibu then take a look at their pdf/online catalog, you can probably save a few bucks.

Edited by CliffB
  • Like 2
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