Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

What happened to the ECFC thread?


jtrovato

Recommended Posts

That would be up to the OP not the Mods. The thread was closed for the disregard of the forum rules. Warning was given and ignored. The thread was removed by request of the OP and the request was approved by the Admins/Mods.

Hindsite is always 20/20. I can see why the op wanted it deleted, it was started off, in my opinion more emotional and flaming than factually stating the issues (which were clarified in subsequent posts) and the OPs opinion, espically with the title. I agree that there are many valuable posts (at least in the first part of the thread).

With that in mind, woulda, coulda, shoulda. Updating the title and admending the first post with the resolution and that ECFC stepped up to the plate would have been a compromise that preserved the historical context and reference.

I have to say I appreciate that the mods have the capability on the site to respect the OPs request and pull the thread since in the end he wanted to retract (at least the tone of the original rant).

Edited by MalibuTime
  • Like 1
Link to comment

Let me get this straight...

  1. A thread chock full of helpful info. and testimonials was locked because a few guys started talking about grits? I didn't understand the breakfast posts then, and I don't now (is it some kind of inside joke?). But I really really don't understand what got the mod's panties in a wad. It may have been silly, but what harm was done? You guys will tollerate pages and pages of dealer and boat bashing, but heaven forbid a few guys post some breakfast stuff in jest. Amazing...
  2. Finally, the entire thread was deleted simply because the OP said, "pretty please?" Since when does one guy own an entire thread with 1000's and views and 100's of replies. What about the other posters who had issues with ECFC? What about the rest of us who contributed? What ownership rights to we have? IMO, the minute one response was posted, it ceased being the OP's thread and was subject to public domain.

No matter how you slice this, it's cencorship. You let one guy deleted the comments of 100's. I'm sorry if the OP wanted it deleted. He should have thought of that before he posted. If you yell "fire" in a crowded theater, can you take that back too?

This whole thing stinks like Team Talk.

Edited by IXFE
  • Like 1
Link to comment

Maybe the OP got tired of being bashed by all the naysayers and kool aid drinkers...don't recall exactly who all they were/are..but there were quite a few questioning who he was, how long he'd been a member, etc....maybe a lesson learned for some?? maybe let it play out a tad before they want to hang the messenger!!

I know when I made comments questioning customer service quite awhile ago, some self proclaimed expert(??) on this site got all wee weed up and wanted to parse words when they did not know ANY of the facts.

Link to comment

Let me get this straight...

  1. A thread chock full of helpful info. and testimonials was locked because a few guys started talking about grits? I didn't understand the breakfast posts then, and I don't now (is it some kind of inside joke?). But I really really don't understand what got the mod's panties in a wad. It may have been silly, but what harm was done? You guys will tollerate pages and pages of dealer and boat bashing, but heaven forbid a few guys post some breakfast stuff in jest. Amazing...
  2. Finally, the entire thread was deleted simply because the OP said, "pretty please?" Since when does one guy own an entire thread with 1000's and views and 100's of replies. What about the other posters who had issues with ECFC? What about the rest of us who contributed? What ownership rights to we have? IMO, the minute one response was posted, it ceased being the OP's thread and was subject to public domain.

No matter how you slice this, it's cencorship. You let one guy deleted the comments of 100's. I'm sorry if the OP wanted it deleted. He should have thought of that before he posted. If you yell "fire" in a crowded theater, can you take that back too?

This whole thing stinks like Team Talk.

I will admit it, I torpedoed the thread with breakfast talk. The tread just seemed like it needed some lightening up. I apologize for taking it off course. I can appreciate the moderators not censoring posts like so many other forums (teamtalk cones to mind). Won't happen again.

Link to comment

I agree with closing of the thread because it went downhill fast at the end, but for it to be removed and never to be seen again is wrong in my opinion, whether the OP requested it or not. Many other members contributed valuable information to that thread and to see it all gone and hidden away is not right.

I figure the stupid tantrums will begin soon. Therefore I give this thread another 24 hours and it will be closed as well.

Let me get this straight...

  1. A thread chock full of helpful info. and testimonials was locked because a few guys started talking about grits? I didn't understand the breakfast posts then, and I don't now (is it some kind of inside joke?). But I really really don't understand what got the mod's panties in a wad. It may have been silly, but what harm was done? You guys will tollerate pages and pages of dealer and boat bashing, but heaven forbid a few guys post some breakfast stuff in jest. Amazing...
  2. Finally, the entire thread was deleted simply because the OP said, "pretty please?" Since when does one guy own an entire thread with 1000's and views and 100's of replies. What about the other posters who had issues with ECFC? What about the rest of us who contributed? What ownership rights to we have? IMO, the minute one response was posted, it ceased being the OP's thread and was subject to public domain.

No matter how you slice this, it's cencorship. You let one guy deleted the comments of 100's. I'm sorry if the OP wanted it deleted. He should have thought of that before he posted. If you yell "fire" in a crowded theater, can you take that back too?

This whole thing stinks like Team Talk.

^^ I agree.

And, maybe now is the time to implement my "cooling off" period. No one can join and post in less than 48 hrs.

Link to comment

It does kind of stink like censorship. But this forum isn't really the United States. It's privately owned & operated. And to keep the peace, sometimes the moderators have to draw the line.

Just a guess, but maybe the OP is negotiating with the dealer now days. And the dealer required the thread to be removed to continue in good faith? I would hope that the OP would come forward at a later date & tell us that such & such happened & now he's enjoying his new boat to the fullest.

Hey Pete, anything you don't agree with here?? :Tease3:

Edited by Bill_AirJunky
Link to comment

I don't see the information in this thread to be all that valuable. Heck in one season a dealer could really turn things around with just a few small policy changes which means in a year the information in this thread is no longer valid. It only takes a few months for a dealer to completely change hands and have new ownership. Would it be right to allow this thread to continue to discourage customers in these cases?

5 years from now this thread could still be damaging.

Link to comment

Let me get this straight...

  1. A thread chock full of helpful info. and testimonials was locked because a few guys started talking about grits? I didn't understand the breakfast posts then, and I don't now (is it some kind of inside joke?). But I really really don't understand what got the mod's panties in a wad. It may have been silly, but what harm was done? You guys will tollerate pages and pages of dealer and boat bashing, but heaven forbid a few guys post some breakfast stuff in jest. Amazing...
  2. Finally, the entire thread was deleted simply because the OP said, "pretty please?" Since when does one guy own an entire thread with 1000's and views and 100's of replies. What about the other posters who had issues with ECFC? What about the rest of us who contributed? What ownership rights to we have? IMO, the minute one response was posted, it ceased being the OP's thread and was subject to public domain.

No matter how you slice this, it's cencorship. You let one guy deleted the comments of 100's. I'm sorry if the OP wanted it deleted. He should have thought of that before he posted. If you yell "fire" in a crowded theater, can you take that back too?

This whole thing stinks like Team Talk.

The terms of use make it clear that TMC can censor as the mods please. We even have the goofy rule about vendors not being able to discuss their wares. Surely you've been around the block enough to know that this place isn't a free speech free-4-all.

twas about this time last year that the stereo thread blew up and the whole FORUM was deleted. So don't go poking the giant about the absurdity of its decisions lest you be surprised. Better to Enjoy the 98% of this place than to get in a dander about the other 2%.

  • Like 4
Link to comment

I don't see the information in this thread to be all that valuable. Heck in one season a dealer could really turn things around with just a few small policy changes which means in a year the information in this thread is no longer valid. It only takes a few months for a dealer to completely change hands and have new ownership. Would it be right to allow this thread to continue to discourage customers in these cases?

5 years from now this thread could still be damaging.

Funny you mention that. My dealer's new owners are awesome, but the previous owner did not have a good reputation so it has been a challenge at times to show people that the new owners are much better.

Link to comment

Mapwpd was pretty upset that i outed him, Name, height, weight, former boat, vehicle information, shortly before that the thread was pulled, he may have put in some effort in settling the issue for the OP and getting the thread pulled....that's my conspiracy theory.

Edited by Cervelo
Link to comment

The terms of use make it clear that TMC can censor as the mods please. We even have the goofy rule about vendors not being able to discuss their wares. Surely you've been around the block enough to know that this place isn't a free speech free-4-all.

twas about this time last year that the stereo thread blew up and the whole FORUM was deleted. So don't go poking the giant about the absurdity of its decisions lest you be surprised. Better to Enjoy the 98% of this place than to get in a dander about the other 2%.

Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.

People are way too sensitive to this word. It just means that TMC, the media outlet in this case, chose to suppress the discussion on ECFC. That's what happened. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Note, I never said that TMC was like the gov't or that they were not able to censor their own site. Of course they have that right. At the end of the day this is a business, and TMC will do what they think is best for business. I'm just saying I think it was a bad business move in that they watered down their product. In so doing, they have shifted the controversy away from ECFC and toward themselves, IMHO. All these so called "public" forums engage in some level of censorship, even the free-for-all we like to call WakeWorld.

One last comment... you know these forums are not really free. They are a business, and we are the customers. We may not pay with money,but we sure pay with our eyeballs, keystrokes, and repeated clicking. Our presence here attracts the sponsors who pay to put their banners in front of our eyeballs. When the eyeballs go away, so do the sponsors. I'm not saying I'd leave over something like the censorship of the ECFC thread. But if a forum like this were to engage in so much censorship as to be known for it, then I believe eyeballs would go away.

As always, I'm more interesting in the business case than the actual boat argument about this or that.

Edited by IXFE
Link to comment

Our presence here attracts the sponsors who pay to put their banners in front of our eyeballs. When the eyeballs go away, so do the sponsors.

I don't see any banners when I visit this site. Who, other than paying members, sponsors this site?

  • Like 3
Link to comment

I don't see any banners when I visit this site. Who, other than paying members, sponsors this site?

LOL... now that you mention it, neither do I. Haha, I'm just so acostomed to ignoring them, I assume they are on all sites.

If this place collects no ad revenue, then maybe it really is just a free service.

Mods...please delete my last post! :rofl:

Link to comment

Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.

People are way too sensitive to this word. It just means that TMC, the media outlet in this case, chose to suppress the discussion on ECFC. That's what happened. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Note, I never said that TMC was like the gov't or that they were not able to censor their own site. Of course they have that right. At the end of the day this is a business, and TMC will do what they think is best for business. I'm just saying I think it was a bad business move in that they watered down their product. In so doing, they have shifted the controversy away from ECFC and toward themselves, IMHO. All these so called "public" forums engage in some level of censorship, even the free-for-all we like to call WakeWorld.

One last comment... you know these forums are not really free. They are a business, and we are the customers. We may not pay with money,but we sure pay with our eyeballs, keystrokes, and repeated clicking. Our presence here attracts the sponsors who pay to put their banners in front of our eyeballs. When the eyeballs go away, so do the sponsors. I'm not saying I'd leave over something like the censorship of the ECFC thread. But if a forum like this were to engage in so much censorship as to be known for it, then I believe eyeballs would go away.

As always, I'm more interesting in the business case than the actual boat argument about this or that.

There are no ads here, banner or otherwise. The business model is paying membership.

I don't disagree with a thing you are saying. I'm just saying you are tilting at windmills because the powers that be here tend to not make purely rational decisions.

Case in point being that after a silly "tastes great / less filling" debate in the stereo forums, the result was to bar Paul from Bakes, Phil from Kicker, and the Wakemakers guys (among others) from posting anything about the stuff they sell. I'm not mentioning that to reopen the debate over that issue -- Elvis has left the building -- but rather just to show that sometimes it's better to understand that the world ain't fair and we can't make it so.

So enjoy the good parts (and it's much much more good than bad here) and let the bad parts go.

Edited by shawndoggy
Link to comment

The terms of use make it clear that TMC can censor as the mods please. We even have the goofy rule about vendors not being able to discuss their wares. Surely you've been around the block enough to know that this place isn't a free speech free-4-all.

twas about this time last year that the stereo thread blew up and the whole FORUM was deleted. So don't go poking the giant about the absurdity of its decisions lest you be surprised. Better to Enjoy the 98% of this place than to get in a dander about the other 2%.

Dude, you sound like an Literature professor!! Are you wearing your tweed jacket? Either way, I agree with you.

Man, it's only DECEMBER!!!! Where is the nuclear explosion emoticon??

  • Like 2
Link to comment

Just to firm up a few "Stretched Truths" here.

This website has been ad free since the very beginning. When we started it, we made the decision to not have any advertising allowed. No revenue was to go toward supporting this site from any sort of advertising. Only Supporting members. If we had done differently and allowed ads, Wakegirl would not need another career and more than likely would have a new Wakesetter in her garage every new model year. Along with that we would have banner ads on every page, pop up ads, ads selling you items you have shown interest in on other websites, selling your contact info to advertisers, cash back for every ad you clicked while on this site, etc. You would also have the problem of any advertiser being able to control what you posted about their product because they wouldn't like negative comments on a site they were supporting. We would be removing every post that shows them in a bad way so we could keep that ca$h flow going. That's all the way from your water spot remover to Malibu. Over the years we let vendors get away with more & more "ad" postings. They started hawking their wares and even introducing new products on these pages. One went so far as posting their complete catalog here. All of this on a No Ad site. If you have been here since the start, you have seen the build up of vendors pushing their product. If you have joined in the last few years when the product pushing was in full swing, you thought it was that way all along and most likely didn't understand what it was about. Most vendors wouldn't even go so far as to be a supporting member. They were basically advertising for free. IMO, that is pushing the No Advertising rule a little far. That is the reason that you do not see the vendors posting their products here anymore. Some new vendors still haven't read the TOU's and try to push that. We do allow Official Malibu dealers to post SOME of their products. If they are not an Official Malibu Dealer then they aren't allowed to post about their products. None of them were ran off the site. The ones that left did so because the only reason they were here was to advertise their products. The ones that are still here follow the rules and don't try to cheat the website out of advertising dollars. They are enthusiasts and want to help. That in a nutshell is why you don't see vendors posting about their products. Nothing to do with the Stereo Forum. The vendors came from all across the boating industry, not just audio.

The Stereo Forum was getting to where members were not posting because if they did not have XYZ stereo setups, the ABC stereo bullies would down play their systems or even the other way around.They were trying to Berate them, try to make them look bad, generally downplay their systems, basically keep them from mentioning their systems. It was to the point that a handfull of members were controlling the forum. I suspect there was even some rewarding/discounting for mentioning some audio products. The XYZ vs. ABC stereo wars was not the reason the forum was there. It was to help ALL members with audio questions. Everyone was seeing the writing on the wall and we were getting many PM's each day to stop all the nonsense that was being posted. There were a few vendors/member arguments as well. We shut down the forum to let the membership regroup and cool off so to speak. We weren't sure when we shut it down if we would even bring it back. It is after all a boating website. Since audio is a large part of some members boating enjoyment, we brought it back. It was going to be civil and not return to the old way the forum was being used or it would not be here today. The reason the forum was archived was for the reasons I have stated above. We did not feel that members would change if the old forum was there. Any new members would see the old forums and think that the old way is how we operate here. We wanted to get back to the membership respecting each other and their opinions. It had nothing to do with the vendors you mentioned above or the silly tastes great/less filling debate. Granted we wouldn't let the vendors post about their products in the audio forums just as we wouldn't allow it in any of the other forums except the Deal Street forum.

Rational decisions in one's eye may not be as rational in another's. We try to keep this website respectable and not degenerate into what some of the other websites have become. We want this to be an enjoyable experience for every member here. We want this to be a community where everyone feels they belong. Are we going to make every member happy every day? That would impossible. Too many differing personalities to make that happen. We will try to stay in the middle of the road though. We won't get too extreme or to conservative. The ECFC thread is an example of all of this. We don't have anything in the TOU's about bashing a dealer if it's warranted and didn't want to stop the thread in the first place. No warnings were given for the postings until it started getting off topic and a little childish. Then the warning was given and ignored. After that the OP contacted us and formally requested the thread be hidden. You can call it censorship or you can call it helping out a member with his issue. There is not one of the Admins/Mods that would have gone through that thread editing or deleting portions to make the OP or anyone else happy. Not worth our time.

Ronnie, I hope you didn't take my response to IXFE personally. A year on, I'm actually quite pleased with how the stereo forum has turned out. It's not the way I'd have done it, but it's worked out fine. Thank you all for that.

And really, thanks for all you do here. Like I said to IXFE, while 2% of it drives me nuts, this site is about 98% awesome, and that's a ratio I can live with.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

SD, It was to the membership overall. Nothing taken personally or otherwise. BTW...After more than a decade doing this, there's very little I take personally anymore. :cheers:

I feel there is a lot of misunderstanding about what has gone on. I totally understand that some of the membership will see things differently than others and even from the Admins/Mods. That's just the way it is. I just like to have the members informed of what is really happening here and not a lynch mob mentality running away with the wrong facts and anger building to a head.

Link to comment

Ronnie, Thanks for the full explanation. The only thing that I would add, is that your warning was not ignored, just that a response was being typed and sent at about the time you posted your warning. I appreciate your tough skin, but still don't want you to think that your warning was being disrespected. Overall, thank you.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...