Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

cabin speaker layout


whiskyshooter

Recommended Posts

Hey guys I just got an exile cabin speaker upgrade. My boat is an 06 vlx wakesetter with a 3 speaker setup right now. 2 in the bow 2 in the dash and 2 in the midship pockets + sub and tower speakers. Anyway what I have done is got the cabin pack 4 with 4 sets. So I am looking to add 1 new set to the boat. Have any of you guys with the older setters put a 4th set in.. Would like to see some install pics or just were you placed them.. Rob from exile told me most put then in th back on the wall under the seat or in the sides of the walk through area..

Link to comment

I was thinking about adding another set aswell. It seems strange that there is only one set in the main cabin area. All the other boats I've had usually had 2 or 3 sets in the main cabin area. I guess technically the ones on the dash are in the main cabin area I'm always suspect if thats actually a good place for them...

I have an '06 vlx as well. I dont like the idea of having them too low like under the seats - sonically not ideal, easy to kick with feet, and backs exposed to the engine compartment. I dont like the idea in the walk through either - sonically doesnt make much sense.

I would like to add a set to where the rear cup holders are in the flip down area in the back seat - but i dont think thats large enough. I havent looked into it but maybe you could retrofit an '08/'09 i think was the year where the added that panel in stock with speakers.

Other place would be where the main cabin set is where the cupholders are - somehow replace the panel to allow for another set...

I'd be curios as to what others say.

Cheers!

Link to comment

I'm a fan of at least one coaxial (or two) mounted in a pod to the driver's kick panel. They can be slightly angled upward and also slightly to the opposing side if using a single. This places the speaker decidedly in front of the driver and is the only location other than atop the dash that creates a front soundstage. However, this location eliminates many of the acoustic problems with speakers atop the dash.

David

Link to comment

Dash mounts are OK as long as you don't stick tweeters (co-ax's) up there. The high frequencies tend to get shrill, especially when under way. I run a pair of wide-band 6 1/2's in the stock location and then a pair of tweets in pods as widely spaced as possible shooting along the windshield corners. You get the windshield gain without the beaminess. Do as David suggested, a la kick panel style. The driver will be much happier. You have plenty of time to figure out why this is the right thing to do and how to make pods. Start with DIYMA.COM, it's 99.9% car related but the techniques and fabrication tips are great. Also check out SOUNDMAN.COM and PWKDESIGNS.COM for giggles.

CDTstarboard.jpg

I did this to pull the front sound stage more to the right.

SEMTextureCoatingrightdash.jpg

My kids S70. It takes a lot of EQ and TA to make it sound right but, sounds aw-some once it's dialed in. Not sure it would do as well in an open air environment (convertable or boat).

Edited by robtr8
Link to comment

A few observations after installing eight 6.5 Blaupunkts (professional series) in my old 'Bu Skier.....

1. High frequencies are directional, meaning if you're installing a tweater or mid-range it matters in what direction it's pointing. Lows/bass are not completely non-directional, but they'e almost. You can put a sub woof just about anywhere, but mid-boat is best if it can be done.

2. The absolute best speaker box you can have for low range speakers is the boat itself. Subs should be very firmly mounted to the basic structure of the boat. The low frequencies will get transmitted into the boat structure and round out the sound much better. If you want BIG bass, make sure that sub is bolted very firmly to the basic boat structure.

3. Eight mid-ranges is lots. Four works, six is better, eight is almost overkill for the size space if what you're installing is a very good speaker. Obviously, poly cones and such are much better for a marine environment.

4. Good amping and mounting does as much for high quality music as does adding speakers. Four really good speakers amp'd and mounted properly is as good as eight mid-quality speakers which aren't ideally mounted or amp'd.

5. Rather than cutting into fiberglass, you can build custom boxes and mounting plates so that a subsequent buyer doesn't have large holes drilled in bulkheads and such (if they're not so much into the music as you).

6. Solder your connections, don't crimp. Nuff said.

7. Good quality sound is better than big sound. Can you hear the highs and lows properly? Best way to get good highs and lows is to use separates (tweets/mids/lows) and amp them all properly. If you amp them all properly you'll also have big sound.

Just my $.02.

Link to comment

When the dash location is what the boat gives you, that's what you accept. But you can work around the acoustic problems to a degree.

There are several issues with the dash. First, the wedge shape created between the dash and windshield. The wedge treats various frequencies very differently. Nothing flows from this location without major alteration which is very much non-linear (meaning in this case, unequal relating to frequency). Second, the glass reflects the shorter wavelengths/higher frequencies out of phase with the speakers direct radiation. This sums and cancels at different frequencies which sets up a number of sharp and pronounced peaks and valleys in the upper midrange and treble region. You do interpret this as 'shrill' or 'strident'.

I can see using a widerange speaker atop the dash, rather than a fullrange coaxial, because it's warmer to begin with and less prone to the stridency of an aggressive coaxial. Using a warmer and smoother coaxial, with a soft dome for example or perhaps a speaker that is just voiced warmer in how the tweeter compares to the midbass, atop the dash will help in the same way.

Some have used a passive contour network (similar to a crossover) on dashes of boats and cars alike in order to create a response null in the most offensive mid/treble region. It's effective.

It's also a good idea to have the dash speakers on dedicated channels so you can offset their positional advantage and bring them into better balance with the rest of the cockpit speakers that are behind you. If the dash speakers dominate they are bound to sound a little brash.

David

Link to comment

I like the driver's side kick panel idea - but after my experience with having kick panel speakers in my Camaro in college, I'm hesitant to do that even in a boat. I had multiple smashed tweeter and constantly crushed or knocked off speaker grills. It looked cool and sounded great (and was the only real option to get good sound in the front of a 3rd gen F-body) but was a big PITA.

Link to comment

I like the driver's side kick panel idea - but after my experience with having kick panel speakers in my Camaro in college, I'm hesitant to do that even in a boat. I had multiple smashed tweeter and constantly crushed or knocked off speaker grills. It looked cool and sounded great (and was the only real option to get good sound in the front of a 3rd gen F-body) but was a big PITA.

Especially if your boat has an emergency brake pedal down there.

Whenever I have seen this done under the driver's side of a boat the pod was position high on the kick panel and out of harms way.

David

Link to comment

Call me all crazy, but personally, I like the dash mounted speakers from an acoustics stand point. In the auto environment, it raises the sound stage when comps are placed in the A-pillars and also angles the speakers as compared to the door (read functional) positions. And remember, the listening positions are fixed. In the boat we are talking about an open air, uncontrolled space (heck sometimes out of control space depending on the party cove choices), that is often times active and noisy i.e. people - engines - outdoor wind etc. I see the arguments for all locations but in the end, my advice is to spread the sound field to as many parts of the boat as "physically" possible. In this mindset, every post I've read in this thread is good advice.

If one really wants to get into acoustically contouring specific speakers / locations that can be done as well with passive resistors placed in the signal path, or active equalization. But frankly thats all kinda specialized stuff. My advice is to mount them where possible. If you want to go the extra distance, try to seal up whatever they are mounted to so they are not back firing into some huge open cavity. This would dramatically effect freq. response in a positive way. Also look at fading between the cabin / tower zone. This will help spread your sound field depending on the event/purpose etc.

Cheers!

-Brian

Link to comment

Call me all crazy, but personally, I like the dash mounted speakers from an acoustics stand point. In the auto environment, it raises the sound stage when comps are placed in the A-pillars and also angles the speakers as compared to the door (read functional) positions. And remember, the listening positions are fixed. In the boat we are talking about an open air, uncontrolled space (heck sometimes out of control space depending on the party cove choices), that is often times active and noisy i.e. people - engines - outdoor wind etc. I see the arguments for all locations but in the end, my advice is to spread the sound field to as many parts of the boat as "physically" possible. In this mindset, every post I've read in this thread is good advice.

If one really wants to get into acoustically contouring specific speakers / locations that can be done as well with passive resistors placed in the signal path, or active equalization. But frankly thats all kinda specialized stuff. My advice is to mount them where possible. If you want to go the extra distance, try to seal up whatever they are mounted to so they are not back firing into some huge open cavity. This would dramatically effect freq. response in a positive way. Also look at fading between the cabin / tower zone. This will help spread your sound field depending on the event/purpose etc.

Cheers!

-Brian

Are you suggesting a baffle of some type or shape? I know all my interiors backfire into...nothing. I always thought baffles weren't worth the hassle...?

Link to comment

Ndawg12,

If you don't mind, I can answer this. I have a ton of experience with acoustic isolation pods or baffles.

First, any non-rigid (foam) baffle is a waste.

The marine or automotive coaxial speakers we are using in a boat are definitely all infinite baffle (IB). So they do not want to see a limiting enclosure/pod/baffle. If the enclosure/pod is larger than a cubic foot to infinity for a small 6.5" for example, then the speaker does not recognize that it is in an enclosure, which is preferred. As the pod becomes progressively smaller the speaker's resonance is increasingly raised which means a distinct loss of midbass output and extension. So ordinarily you would avoid using restrictive pods on IB speakers. The expansive compartments and gunnel cavities are ideal. So under what conditions is the pod advantageous?

1) If an IB coaxial and IB woofer share the same compartment and are in reasonable proximity to one another then you want a pod. The back wave of the woofer will modulate the smaller coaxial midbass cone so that it behaves as a sympathetic radiator. And, that means dirty mids & midbass. So in this case you would select the best trade-off on balance. Here the pods wins out.

2) If a coaxial is mounted at the edge of an open coaming panel then you have an uncontrolled speaker. The opposing front and rear waveforms are directly out-of-phase and are allowed to meet causing midbass cancellations. This also cancels the normal acoustic resistance of open air and leaves the speaker essentially undamped (or worse) beyond its own mechanical suspension. Thus, the coaxial speaker power handling is also compromised. The pod corrects this but has inherent flaws also as described above. Again, you choose the leper with the most fingers. In this scenario the pod wins out.

3) In extreme cases the front waveform of a very large and powerful subwoofer may share a compartment, such as a helm console, with the rear side of a coaxial and exurt a lot of force on the coaxial midbass cone. The compartment would have to be sealed or the subwoofer would have to be fired into the compartment (downfiring, sidefiring, etc.). The justification for an isolation pod in this application would be rare but here is a surefire way to make that determination. Disconnect the dash coaxial. Play the sub very hard. If you can feel the coaxial midbass cone vibrate but you cannot see significant excursion (1/16th" or more) then the negative attributes of the pod outway the positives and you do not want to use a pod. Similarly, if the subwoofer driver is positioned so that it is radiating from the mouth of the underdash compartment with little restriction then a coaxial pod is likely to be of zero benefit.

My preference would be to avoid narrowing the bandwidth of a dash-mounted coaxial with a pod because I would want more linear and warmer rather than peakier and brighter to offset how the windshield impacts the sound.

In order to not alter the coaxials 'Q' (damping) and not decrease its midbass response you would need to custom fab a much larger pod than is available as an off-the-shelf product, unless you accepted the compromise.

David

Link to comment

robtr8,

That would qualify as the 2) scenario where the speaker is on the edge of an open coaming pocket. And there are two issues at work here. First, any wavelength longer & lower than the front to rear isolation distance (which is only several inches) is directly canceled. So you are missing midbass. And good bass tonal construction is highly dependent on the upper bass harmonics delivered from the smaller midbass cones. This will cause a hole in the response. Second, the speaker is generally undamped which is a lack of control. You need an opposing/resistive force, and more than just the speaker's mechanical suspension, to help control the moving mass and inertia. The lack of front to rear isolation serves to cancel the normal resistance of an infinite volume of air. Visually you will find that an undamped speaker will exhibit far more excursion than an isolated speaker. That extra and unnecessary excursion IS distortion, even modulating the midrange spectrum. Power handling is also reduced.

So here are a couple of solutions. As described in the above post, a rigid pod will provide total front to rear acoustic isolation, improve the power handling and clean up the midrange. However, if the pod displacement is too small, this raises the low frequency cut-off point. There is going to be some degree of trade-off in either case (adding a pod or doing nothing). I would add the largest pod possible. There is another option that I like better in this particular instance. The front to rear isolation of an IB speaker does not have to be absolutely airtight. And you want an infinite volume of enclosure which is the gunnel cavity. The key for an IB speaker is the distance of isolation and the cut-off point being lower than the usable bandwidth. So consider an isolating flat panel from the rear of the coaming panel to the interior side of the hull with as much vertical span as possible. This should provide all of the benefits and none of the compromises. I think this would add more and tighter midbass and add overall coherency to your system. Keep in mind that a great majority of ALL musical fundamentals are the sole domain of that 6" midbass driver.

David

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...