Fueling at the dock - What's wrong with my system?

[MadDogMike]

First, you have no idea how I secure my 5 gallon jugs...and I don't have a pick up..

So you carry them inside of your vehicle??

and you're the one asking whats wrong with my system..If you don't want suggestions and don't care, why did you even post the question?...seems as if you've already made up your mind, and was just looking for like minded sheeple to agree with you. I am sure you can find plenty of sheeple to agree at your local soak and suds.

Fair enough, so lets hear your suggestions on how to safety transport your fuel containers with your vehicle.

[[email protected]]

So you carry them inside of your vehicle??

Fair enough, so lets hear your suggestions on how to safety transport your fuel containers with your vehicle.

Like I said, you do not seem to be receptive to listening to members who actually know something a about the subject....I have already made mine...I just hope your 10 month old doesn't suffer as a result.

YOu had someone tell you why the nozzles did not work..you had the site's self proclaimed expert deduce that my .62 psi/foot of elevation was wrong...and I subsequntly corrected my mistake, even though it took him a full page to do what i did with: 62.4/144=.43psi/ft

I will repeat AGAIN: gasloline is extremley dangerous to handle, transport, etc. that is why transporters are lincenced as haz waste haulers...cause you are hauling a potential bomb. Some member carry gas cans on/in their boats..in case they run out or someone else does...not a good idea....but it has worked for them ...so far.

You now know PVC is not the correct material to use if you are going to run a UG pipe down to the dock.

I transport 2 5 gal jugs every trip to the lakehouse...probably not the best idea...as I said earlier, as those with boats on lifts or docks do the same.

[MadDogMike]

Like I said, you do not seem to be receptive to listening to members who actually know something a about the subject....I have already made mine

You have? Where? I have not seen anywhere where you suggested how to transport fuel containers safely with your vehicle.

YOu had someone tell you why the nozzles did not work..you had the site's self proclaimed expert deduce that my .62 psi/foot of elevation was wrong...and I subsequntly corrected my mistake, even though it took him a full page to do what i did with: 62.4/144=.43psi/ft

That's between you and him. Why bring it up again?

I will repeat AGAIN: gasloline is extremley dangerous to handle, transport, etc. that is why transporters are lincenced as haz waste haulers...cause you are hauling a potential bomb. Some member carry gas cans on/in their boats..in case they run out or someone else does...not a good idea....but it has worked for them ...so far.

Non responsive.

You now know PVC is not the correct material to use if you are going to run a UG pipe down to the dock.

This is something I never asked and nobody ever brought up. Keep patting yourself on the back.

I transport 2 5 gal jugs every trip to the lakehouse...probably not the best idea...as I said earlier, as those with boats on lifts or docks do the same.

You're dodging the question. You say I am not receptive to suggestions, yet you have not supplied your suggestion on how you safely transport your 5 gallon jugs in your vehicle.

[85 Barefoot]

kendall,

Just answer his question. In 5 paragraphs of rambling incoherent you couldn't answer ONE question directed squarely at you?

[[email protected]]

kendall,

Just answer his question. In 5 paragraphs of rambling incoherent you couldn't answer ONE question directed squarely at you?

They are sentences..not paragraphs...

I suggest you re read all of the posts, as they have been answered....sorry they went over your head...if you can't find them, I suggest having your eyes examined.

See my previous posts.

Something I learned a long long time ago:

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous

Edited November 15, 2012 by [email protected]

[85 Barefoot]

I suggest you re read all of the posts, as they have been answered....sorry they went over your head...if you can't find them, I suggest having your eyes examined.

See my previous posts.

Incorrect. Nowhere have you answered Mike's question of how YOU transport your cans. Please refer to Mike's last line in post #53.

It won't surprise me that you will now go back and edit your answers like you do, one of which now calls me an idiot (thanks for that). No need for eye examination retort, you haven't answered Mike's question, everyone knows you haven't answered it, but if it makes you feel better to take a shot at me (again), fire away. Mike and I are far more interested in your answer and YOUR safe practices than we are at reading your insults.

[85 Barefoot]

Now TWO references to being an idiot! THANKS!

[Malibuzer]

Are you guys kidding me? All this arguing in a forum about boating. Everyone tak a deep breath and lets get back to enjoying this forum.

[85 Barefoot]

Like I said, you do not seem to be receptive to listening to members who actually know something a about the subject....I have already made mine...I just hope your 10 month old doesn't suffer as a result.

YOu had someone tell you why the nozzles did not work..you had the site's self proclaimed expert deduce that my .62 psi/foot of elevation was wrong...and I subsequntly corrected my mistake, even though it took him a full page to do what i did with: 62.4/144=.43psi/ft

I will repeat AGAIN: gasloline is extremley dangerous to handle, transport, etc. that is why transporters are lincenced as haz waste haulers...cause you are hauling a potential bomb. Some member carry gas cans on/in their boats..in case they run out or someone else does...not a good idea....but it has worked for them ...so far.

You now know PVC is not the correct material to use if you are going to run a UG pipe down to the dock.

I transport 2 5 gal jugs every trip to the lakehouse...probably not the best idea...as I said earlier, as those with boats on lifts or docks do the same.

They are sentences..not paragraphs...

I suggest you re read all of the posts, as they have been answered....sorry they went over your head...if you can't find them, I suggest having your eyes examined.

See my previous posts.

Something I learned a long long time ago:

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous

Wrong. Learn the definition of a paragraph. I'll help: "A distinct section of a piece of writing, usually dealing with a single theme and indicated by a new line, indentation, or numbering"

5 paragraphs. Still more focused on me than simply answering Mike. And I'll probably get called an idiot in public again and worse by PM.

[[email protected]]

You have? Where? I have not seen anywhere where you suggested how to transport fuel containers safely with your vehicle.

That's between you and him. Why bring it up again?

Non responsive.

This is something I never asked and nobody ever brought up. Keep patting yourself on the back.

You're dodging the question. You say I am not receptive to suggestions, yet you have not supplied your suggestion on how you safely transport your 5 gallon jugs in your vehicle.

You're right...I thought I had. 85 has got me all wee weed up/sweatingt bullets...so I don't make another blunder for him to deduce...ha ha

I made a cage outta PVC to cradle each poly jug..the cradle is secured to the back of the seat and the latch points on the car floor. It has a pvc base so I can slide it in place and secure it. ...as the self proclaimed expert so aptly pointed out...gasoline's SG is slightly less than 1.0 so each jug full weights approx 40# ..so it can't move/slide around... took about 1/2 hr to make, but short of a roll over, the jugs are secure, held up right,,,and are vented...The one thing I don't like, is the fumes...SO I do everything I can to limit the time the jugs are in the car.

ANd that is one reason why gas is so dangerous: is the fumes...that is why it is called the GBZ...go boom zone...plus it stinks up the car.

But I refuse to pay and additional 2-3/gal to get gas on the lake. It is already too damn expensive in CA!

Edited November 15, 2012 by [email protected]

[[email protected]]

Wrong. Learn the definition of a paragraph. I'll help: "A distinct section of a piece of writing, usually dealing with a single theme and indicated by a new line, indentation, or numbering"

5 paragraphs. Still more focused on me than simply answering Mike. And I'll probably get called an idiot in public again and worse by PM.

I am making bullet points..as anyone who passed 6th grade english knows a prapagraph contains more than one sentence.

Like I said...most folks are smart enough to stop digging, you just go to next gear and digg faster...happy digging. Let me know when you've reached the other side.

ANd I have NEVER called you an idiot...I have merely cut and pasted quotes from other authors...you have made the inference/connection using your own deductive skills!!

Edited November 15, 2012 by [email protected]

[85 Barefoot]

To counteract gas fumes in the car try putting coffee grounds in a sock or panty hose under a seat. Pretty remarkable difference IME.

[85 Barefoot]

I am making bullet points..as anyone who passed 6th grade english knows a prapagraph contains more than one sentence.

:rofl: :rofl:

[Joeprunc]

[jtrovato]

Now this is getting interesting!

[Bozboat]

You're right...I thought I had. 85 has got me all wee weed up/sweatingt bullets...so I don't make another blunder for him to deduce...ha ha

I made a cage outta PVC to cradle each poly jug..the cradle is secured to the back of the seat and the latch points on the car floor. It has a pvc base so I can slide it in place and secure it. ...as the self proclaimed expert so aptly pointed out...gasoline's SG is slightly less than 1.0 so each jug full weights approx 40# ..so it can't move/slide around... took about 1/2 hr to make, but short of a roll over, the jugs are secure, held up right,,,and are vented...The one thing I don't like, is the fumes...SO I do everything I can to limit the time the jugs are in the car.

ANd that is one reason why gas is so dangerous: is the fumes...that is why it is called the GBZ...go boom zone...plus it stinks up the car.

But I refuse to pay and additional 2-3/gal to get gas on the lake. It is already too damn expensive in CA!

So do you live in the Buckley, WA and boat in CA? I can't imagine driving out of WA to get to a lake, that is some beautiful country.

[MALI-MONSTER]

Wow! 99% of the time The Malibu Crew is such a peaceful and helpful place where everyone feels comfortable asking for help to their boating issues/problems. This thread is clearly in the 1% where that is not the case. I hope that new prospective members don’t read through this and take this disrespectful banter as the norm. I know if I did, I would have never posted (or even stuck around).

To the OP, as an environmental engineer, I love these types of problems! It has already been beat to death, but your elevation drop (I would guess 30ish feet rather than 100 feet) is not producing enough head pressure to overcome the head losses of the 200 feet of line, line bends, the “Y” splitter, and the gas station style nozzle. You are right on in eliminating the nozzle and adding a section of hose to dispense into your boat via the ball valve.

That being said, pay very close attention to the condition of your hoses and fittings whether they are gas rated or not. You said that you partially buried your hose, so inspecting the condition of those sections might be difficult. (out of sight – out of mind). It is not a question of if your hose or fittings will fail; it is a question of when and how long will it take you to notice. I have personally been involved in the investigation and remediation of several sites from poorly executed activities (not too far off from yours). Leaking a small amount of unnoticed gas from your system for a long period of time is an easy thing to do. If that happens, the first thing that you may notice will be the gas rainbow on the water conspicuously weeping from your shoreline. I have seen it, and the aftermath is not pretty for your insurance company because it involves excavating a large amount of your property. So make sure you KNOW your lines and fitting don’t leak at all (and you have good insurance).

As others have mentioned the federal, state, and local legality of what you are doing may be in question. I get the feeling that you feel that if you don’t get caught it’s not illegal, so I wouldn’t go showing off your setup to people you don’t know very well.

I do have a question. If your boat tank doesn’t have the capacity to take the whole amount of gas that you have in the tanks, and you have to shut off the valve, what do you do with the remaining gas in your line? Hopefully your plan is not to leave it in place secured by the ball valve till next fill up.

You do have a beautiful lake site and best of luck to you!

[Malibudude]

Both [email protected] and 85 if you continue down this path of derailing the thread (or any other) both accounts will serve a ban from the board and/or have further posts require admin/mod approval prior to posting to the board. Last warning there will not be another.

[[email protected]]

Wow! 99% of the time The Malibu Crew is such a peaceful and helpful place where everyone feels comfortable asking for help to their boating issues/problems. This thread is clearly in the 1% where that is not the case. I hope that new prospective members don’t read through this and take this disrespectful banter as the norm. I know if I did, I would have never posted (or even stuck around).

To the OP, as an environmental engineer, I love these types of problems! It has already been beat to death, but your elevation drop (I would guess 30ish feet rather than 100 feet) is not producing enough head pressure to overcome the head losses of the 200 feet of line, line bends, the “Y” splitter, and the gas station style nozzle. You are right on in eliminating the nozzle and adding a section of hose to dispense into your boat via the ball valve.

That being said, pay very close attention to the condition of your hoses and fittings whether they are gas rated or not. You said that you partially buried your hose, so inspecting the condition of those sections might be difficult. (out of sight – out of mind). It is not a question of if your hose or fittings will fail; it is a question of when and how long will it take you to notice. I have personally been involved in the investigation and remediation of several sites from poorly executed activities (not too far off from yours). Leaking a small amount of unnoticed gas from your system for a long period of time is an easy thing to do. If that happens, the first thing that you may notice will be the gas rainbow on the water conspicuously weeping from your shoreline. I have seen it, and the aftermath is not pretty for your insurance company because it involves excavating a large amount of your property. So make sure you KNOW your lines and fitting don’t leak at all (and you have good insurance).

As others have mentioned the federal, state, and local legality of what you are doing may be in question. I get the feeling that you feel that if you don’t get caught it’s not illegal, so I wouldn’t go showing off your setup to people you don’t know very well.

I do have a question. If your boat tank doesn’t have the capacity to take the whole amount of gas that you have in the tanks, and you have to shut off the valve, what do you do with the remaining gas in your line? Hopefully your plan is not to leave it in place secured by the ball valve till next fill up.

You do have a beautiful lake site and best of luck to you!

EXACTLY...that is what I have been trying to tell the OP....and your Allstate (your in good hands) will not cover this kinda potential mess/liability...Which gets back to what I said to begin with...carry the jugs down the ramps/steps. Or maybe get one of those pack mule garden cart to lower/wheel them down the hill. The risk of leaks, contaminated soil and water are just too great...and if there was a leak, you'd never be able to sell that property...casue you'd bee sooo broke after trying to remediate.

Edited November 15, 2012 by [email protected]

[[email protected]]

So do you live in the Buckley, WA and boat in CA? I can't imagine driving out of WA to get to a lake, that is some beautiful country.

Have multiple houses...and presently building one in CR (Lake Arenal, Costa Rica), where I am. 20 miles long, 1 mile wide of lake with maybe 6-12 boats with engines on the entire lake.

CA house is on Lake Tulloch, Penninsula Estates. WA house is on Snag Island (Lake Tapps). Although in the process of selling the CA residence....going to get out before the state implodes from its massive and due to the super majority gonna be waaaay bigger, debt.

They are all beautiful places....I can send you a pic of the Volcano and or the Lake if you'd like...just a tad shakey/bouncey down here....had a 7.6 and 5.5 since I have been down here...the 7.5 one lasted over a minute!

Edited November 15, 2012 by [email protected]

[MadDogMike]

...the back of the seat and the latch points on the car floor. ... the jugs are secure, held up right,,,and are vented...The one thing I don't like, is the fumes...SO I do everything I can to limit the time the jugs are in the car.

ANd that is one reason why gas is so dangerous: is the fumes...that is why it is called the GBZ...go boom zone...plus it stinks up the car.

But I refuse to pay and additional 2-3/gal to get gas on the lake. It is already too damn expensive in CA!

So there you have it. You take a calculated risk to save money. Now, if you want to claim that transporting gas jugs inside the passenger compartment of your car is safer than on my external cargo rack, you'll have to provide some evidence for that claim. Otherwise, I'll take the stance that the probability of me being rear-ended on the short, lightly-traveled country road between my lake house & the gas station is low enough for it to be no less safe than carrying jugs inside the passenger compartment. Persuade me (with evidence, not just claims) and maybe I'll go back to tying them down on the inside.

That being said, pay very close attention to the condition of your hoses and fittings whether they are gas rated or not. You said that you partially buried your hose, so inspecting the condition of those sections might be difficult.

They are superficially covered with leaves. Very easy to kick the leaves away at the connection points to check for leaks.

I have personally been involved in the investigation and remediation of several sites from poorly executed activities (not too far off from yours).

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I'll bet money that situation you investigated involved a more permanent gas tank and lines that maintained gas in them for an extended period. My caddies drain in a matter of a few minutes, leaving no gas in most of the lines, save for a minuscule amount in the last few feet of hose.

The funny thing about this thread is, had I said, "I fill my boat using a gas caddy and the 8' hose it came with," nobody would have said a word. But change that 8' hose to a 200' hose, and all of a sudden it's a potential safety and ecological disaster.

I do have a question. If your boat tank doesn’t have the capacity to take the whole amount of gas that you have in the tanks, and you have to shut off the valve, what do you do with the remaining gas in your line? Hopefully your plan is not to leave it in place secured by the ball valve till next fill up.

I have never put myself in that situation. I always drain the lines as completely as possible.

So, let's review I've said here:

1.) I'll remove the gas nozzles and just use the ball valve. (Really, the only question I had for this thread!)

2.) I'll purchase gas-rated hoses.

3.) I'll ground said hoses at every metal attach point.

4.) I'll check the hoses and connections regularly for leaks.

OK, can we let this thread die now?

[Pistol Pete]

Yep, lie them down horizontal and tie them down. I suppose you're going to tell me this is a hazard, and I really don't care.

Nope,

I was just curious. I don't care what you do or, how you do it. I happen to carry waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more hazardous stuff in my work truck.

This was a great train wreck.

[[email protected]]

Nope,

I was just curious. I don't care what you do or, how you do it. I happen to carry waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more hazardous stuff in my work truck.

This was a great train wreck.

I gotta admit this was one of the better tastes great...less filling debates.... Ya just never know whats back up in thar hills...Jim Bob making some shine or gassing up his boat...maybe running shine with the boat??....I could swear I hear some dueling banjos....but stuff like this, is what makes engineering soooo entertaining!! Can't count how many times I've heard...I never know, who'da thunk, or how was I to know??

Edited November 15, 2012 by [email protected]

[JonnyRad91]

but stuff like this, is what makes engineering soooo entertaining!!

I learned a long time ago in the engineering profession, its not about having the best design, its about conveying to everyone else you have the best design. Any idiot can do that

With that I would build a motorized carrage system. I rather not carry cases of beer, babies, and or gear up and down that hill. Atleast you dont have to carry the beer back up.

Edited November 16, 2012 by JonnyRad91

[MadDogMike]

Ya just never know whats back up in thar hills...Jim Bob making some shine or gassing up his boat...maybe running shine with the boat??....I could swear I hear some dueling banjos....but stuff like this, is what makes engineering soooo entertaining!! Can't count how many times I've heard...I never know, who'da thunk, or how was I to know??

Or maybe Jim Bob is carrying gas inside of his car with his home-made PVC cage! What could go wrong?