20' MXZ VS A20

[saidainc]

The newer Wakesetters, if kept and maintained well, with average 75hrs use a year, are only depreciating at about $3-5k a year.

And that's trade in.... Not retail. Retail pricewise they are loosing $2-4k a year.

God I hope youre right brah.....because this will be the first time I didnt get my arse handed to me when I trade in.

[Fman]

God I hope youre right brah.....because this will be the first time I didnt get my arse handed to me when I trade in.

The dealer will always give you less than selling on your own. Its a little more work on your end but definitely worth it for the extra cash you put in your pocket.

[Brett B]

As everyone has said: go look and get a ride and some actual prices in both boats before making your mind up. I don't own either boat but am always shopping. When I looked at the axis(2012) in the showroom I also felt cheap. Cheap in materials and in fit. It looked cheap. But hey it is supposed to be cheaper than a Malibu. Next time you go look at a axis walk along side of it and bang on the hull, listen, doesn't sound to solid to me. Also apply some pressure you will notice that you can press a Axis hull in almost a 1/2" in spots! Go try that with the other boats your comparing it will tell you a lot.

Lastly for anyone buying a Axis your taking a huge huge risk that this company will even be around in 5yrs. Just as easily as BU started it they could pull the plug if things aren't working out like they had planned. This economy is far from recovered...

Are you just here to troll? It certainly looks like it, especially since I have seen your posts on Wakeworld.

So when did it even become the "big three"? Since the days of the scurfer it has always been if you wanted the best highest quality boat it was ONLY- Mastercraft or Correct Craft end of story. Now I will admit Malibu makes a nice boat now but where where you 10yrs ago? And to even include Tige in the same comparison? Please...

Please! Malibu:axis is more like the Chevy:Geo and we all know that geo ain't around anymore!

I agree VLX resale likely to be better. Besides who knows if Axis will even be around in 5yrs. Malibu might decide it was a dumb idea, not making financial sense for them and shut it down.

[Nordicron]

No Brett not trolling at all. I like all the wake forums that are tapatalk friendly! I actually created a account here to sell a prop.

Just expressing my opinion like most I guess. And will standby my comments about Axis.

[85 Barefoot]

yeha I laughed too. Where were you 10 years ago? Uhhh, overtaking CC and MC in sales. Not to mention Axis ain't goin' nowhere, now in its fifth year and factory is humming.

[85 Barefoot]

nordicron, by design, not all areas of the hull are built the same. I can do a 1/2" bang test on any boat. I've watched axises being built, they get the same construction as any malibu that has a lifetime warranty. Same gel, same glass, same methods. Other people on here are questioning it being the same "quality". Plushness of interior is not the same as construction quality. Axis is in its in its fifth year already and prices have gone up tremendously (roughly 50% even) yet factory is cranking them out. Unlike some other brands, any Axis on the line is "sold" to a dealership. The demand is definitely there.

[Nordicron]

Well next time I'm over at Tinus marine I'll go do the same thing to a MXZ or VLX and see if they flex as bad as the Axis did. Most solid hull I've seen is a 2013 mc x-30 and most flex was the axis. Just wanted to point out what I noticed to the OP.

I think from 5ft away and more the Axis looks pretty cool. I've also heard first hand that the wake is pretty dang nice(a22) and I'd for sure not turn down a pull behind one.

[85 Barefoot]

nordicron, when you do that, test 2 important places: 1) go underneath and bang in the vicinity of the prop, strut, etc., and 2) the top of the deck all the way around the boat. See how much flex u get. Then go around and do your "test" pushing on the sides generally bow side of midline, which is where you'll get that flex, and its not unique to axis. There's a big difference between layup of the riding surface and deck as compared to "walls" of the hull which is not stressed.

[85 Barefoot]

Just saw Axis is the fifth larget (by volume) inboard brand in the world (with TWO models). Would assume, tho don't know, that 4th is Supra? Pretty impressive to be selling more boats than MB, Tige', moomba, Centurion, sanger, etc. and not suggestive that Axis will be going anywhere anytime soon considering the infrastructure is already in place.

Edited November 8, 2012 by 85 Barefoot

[Nordicron]

Yeah but who did they cannibalize from? If it was all from other manufactures then great for them.

[bamabonners]

If the hull didn't have some flex it would shatter under stress. That is a sakes tactic from ages ago.

[bamabonners]

After going through the factory tour, i can tell you that there are differences in manufacturing between the Axis and the Malibu. The way the hull and deck are joined together is better on the malibu - Malibu is both chemically and mechanically bonded where Axis is just mechanical. The fiberglass "appeared" to be thicker on the Malibu, but I could not get a definite answer. Also, I don't remember seeing the additional sound deadening and strengthening material in the hull of the Axis.

[85 Barefoot]

Fman, on your tour, is there a spray booth for Malibus and different one for Axis? Are the same gel mixes used for each? How about the roving? One roll for Axis and one for Malibu? How about layup? Same chopper guns? Same resin? Same people? How about two piece design? (which was Malibu's first two piece design which spawned current flagship?) How about rigging...precise same hardware other than ballast vents?

True, Malibu does use plexus and has for years and I am pretty confident is the only inboard manufacturer to do it that way. Is anyone going to tell Correct Craft they're substandard because they screw deck and hull together like Axis, which has been the industry standard for decades?

EDIT: all of the above questions were rhetorical.

Edited November 26, 2012 by 85 Barefoot

[nyryan2001]

Last week I was looking at 2012 Axis 22 side by side to Malibu 23 Wakesetter. Here are the things looking hard at them side by side i was able to distinguish... I am a snob about some things but here they are:

Exact same weight and quality of vinyl and padding as on the Wakesetter....just much less fancy and less color patterns/trim worked into it. No doubts on vinyl quality. Actually may be BETTER longevity wise...I just had to have a cushion replaced because it ripped stiches on one of those fancy thru the middle trim areas. None of that in the Axis...straight vinyl, much fewer stiches to rip.

Gel coat and fiberglass looked and felt identical in finsh and quality...actually both had the upgrade gray sprarkle as part of their hull color schemes. no doubts whatsoever on Axis gel or fiberglass quality. No thin spots or anything that other guy was illuding to.

Black plastic vs chrome/SS and brass thru hulls. Exposed plastic finish pieces vs the vinyl trim in the Wakesetter. Plastic cup holders.

Removeable deck carpet looked same as on the Wakesetters.

Dual small "cheap style" tower knobs on either side of the tower. On my last boat these same knobs had to be replaced every few yrs...bend and strip out...only 12$ each though....

Axis bimini lower overall and weird up angle at the back--ie would catch more wind, not aerodynamic longevity issues?

Shift knob/slip ring not impressive, felt cheap, wondered if there would be issues with the slip ring linkage in there. Also, seems as though the new Surfgate swim platforms took styling cues from Axis...the sunk tray look is almost identical off the Axis line.

Otherwise, where it really matters, Axis has nailed it: engines, vinyl, hull, gel. there are a few areas where they cut corners but they are cosmetic and hold the price down.

I think the interesting wakeboat value comparision would be between Axis 22 and Ride 23.

[Nordicron]

I'm sorry but if that vinyl and padding in a 2012 is the same as a wakesetter then all you guys with wakesetters are crazy to spend the kinda money on a BU because no way in hell is the vinyl or padding of a axis even close that of a MC or Nautique. When I sat on the axis seat it seemed my butt bottomed out the cushion almost instantly. And I stand by what I said about the side of the hull on that axis having much more flex than other wake boats.

Again Axis seems like a great boat for $50k or less but that's it.

[VLX_Fixation]

I own a VLX and ride behind an axis regularly. Given the one i ride in is a 2010 but they vinyl quality and overall interior is no where near the same quality as the bu. 2 year old axis with under 100 hrs that is babied and cared for like a child and the stitching and vinyl is already coming apart. My boats 5 years old and very well maintained and not even a scratch in the vinyl or a seperated stitch. I disagree with the above post.

[IXFE]

Exact same weight and quality of vinyl and padding as on the Wakesetter....

If that's true, then Axis made a major change in 2012 (the boat you saw). Because I'm telling you, I've spent time in a 2011 A20 and this was NOT my experience. Whereas the Malibu has one of the nicest interiors in the biz, the A20 I was in had about the worst. Honestly, I bottomed out in the seat the foam is so weak. And the vinyl felt like you could poke through it with a sharp fingernail.

[IXFE]

Even if the Axis seats are firm and supportive and the vinyl is thick (which I still don't believe), there's also something to be said for styling...

Which do you think looks better? Which would you rather spend the day sitting on??

Honestly, I can't believe we are even having this debate.

Edited November 27, 2012 by IXFE

[nyryan2001]

If that's true, then Axis made a major change in 2012 (the boat you saw). Because I'm telling you, I've spent time in a 2011 A20 and this was NOT my experience. Whereas the Malibu has one of the nicest interiors in the biz, the A20 I was in had about the worst. Honestly, I bottomed out in the seat the foam is so weak. And the vinyl felt like you could poke through it with a sharp fingernail.

I am telling you and that other guy this:

The plain vinyl on the 2012 Axis is the exact same plain vinyl on the wakesetters. EXACT. same weight and all the way down to the small .2mm hair line crevices/design throughout the vinyl. And its installed about the same as far as how tight it wraps the seats... I could pinch about 1/2" on each sundpad if I tried hard. Yep the wakesetter vinyl has many more rounded corners and rounded contours....and those rounded countours and fancy color patterns drive up the price.... been talked about here ad-nauseum. The only place you have that plain vinyl on the pic above is on the sunpad section around the hatch latches and on that rear upper seat back, and that gray 8" section that trims the front of your entire seating area. THAT vinyl is the same as what they use on the Axis line. Not the rough vinyl that is the other 70% of the inner seat tops.

No one is debating the layout or which would be better to spend a day on, go re-read my post. I am talking materials and the MATERIAL quality--->vinyl.

I am tracking the earlier vinyl being thinner, yep, reminded me of being Bayliner thin....this is the first time I saw them the same thickness...I am telling you what I saw side by side hands on 6 days ago for 30 mins.

[wakesetter8796]

Spent some time in an A20 at camp a few months ago.... Hate to say it but the worst boat I have been in in quite awhile. Vinyl had a couple holes in it from fingernails and a ski, vinyl was not comfortable, and what's up with that metal thing under the seats? The CC didn't work right and the stereo wasn't good. What material is that tower? Granted, it was a base model A20 with no options, but the wake sucked! I think it was a 2012, we put the 900 ballast and floating wedge and the wake was way worse than our 08. I'm sure they get better when you add options though.

[85 Barefoot]

Even if the Axis seats are firm and supportive and the vinyl is thick (which I still don't believe), there's also something to be said for styling...

Which do you think looks better? Which would you rather spend the day sitting on??

Honestly, I can't believe we are even having this debate.

There is no argument, from anyone, trying to equate the desirability of a bu to an Axis. The issue raised was construction quality. Not fanciness of interior, not the time-intensive interior compnents that seperate Axis from bu. In fact, it was already specifially acknowledged that it is the simplicty of the Axis interior that helps shave 20 grand off. Axis vinyl, until this year, was in fact thinner than malibus. There is no debate on that. The debate was the construction quality which, more or less, is determined by materials used and construction process. In that arena, the Axis is every bit as quality of a boat as a bu. Same resins, same construction, same stringer layup, same roving, same resin, same everything except for Plexus (which is my understanding no one else uses anyway). You wnat more than 2 colors, get a bu, want g3, get a bu, want malivue, get a but, want a quality constructed boat with a minimalist interior and pay 20 grand less (or more) look at the axis. No one is saying someone should buy an Axis over a bu if price is no object.

[85 Barefoot]

Spent some time in an A20 at camp a few months ago.... Hate to say it but the worst boat I have been in in quite awhile. Vinyl had a couple holes in it from fingernails and a ski, vinyl was not comfortable, and what's up with that metal thing under the seats? The CC didn't work right and the stereo wasn't good. What material is that tower? Granted, it was a base model A20 with no options, but the wake sucked! I think it was a 2012, we put the 900 ballast and floating wedge and the wake was way worse than our 08. I'm sure they get better when you add options though.

Thin vinyl, which the Axis HAD, equates it to worst boat? Metal thing allows you to put and leave wet stuff under seats and it not be air tight. IF CC didn't work right, that's a problem, IME, it worked flawlessly. So you ran the boat bone stock in other words, didn't utilize the features of the boat (factory plug and play for another 2500#'s) and you're comparing a 20 foot boat to your 21' vride?

[IXFE]

I am telling you and that other guy this:

The plain vinyl on the 2012 Axis is the exact same plain vinyl on the wakesetters. EXACT. same weight and all the way down to the small .2mm hair line crevices/design throughout the vinyl. And its installed about the same as far as how tight it wraps the seats... I could pinch about 1/2" on each sundpad if I tried hard. Yep the wakesetter vinyl has many more rounded corners and rounded contours....and those rounded countours and fancy color patterns drive up the price.... been talked about here ad-nauseum. The only place you have that plain vinyl on the pic above is on the sunpad section around the hatch latches and on that rear upper seat back, and that gray 8" section that trims the front of your entire seating area. THAT vinyl is the same as what they use on the Axis line. Not the rough vinyl that is the other 70% of the inner seat tops.

No one is debating the layout or which would be better to spend a day on, go re-read my post. I am talking materials and the MATERIAL quality--->vinyl.

I am tracking the earlier vinyl being thinner, yep, reminded me of being Bayliner thin....this is the first time I saw them the same thickness...I am telling you what I saw side by side hands on 6 days ago for 30 mins.

Settle down. I'm not saying you are wrong. If you go back and read my post, all I said was that my experience in a 2011 was not what you describe (from both a vinyl and a foam density perspective). You were looking at a 2012, so perhaps they made changes that year.

[IXFE]

There is no argument, from anyone, trying to equate the desirability of a bu to an Axis. The issue raised was construction quality. Not fanciness of interior, not the time-intensive interior compnents that seperate Axis from bu. In fact, it was already specifially acknowledged that it is the simplicty of the Axis interior that helps shave 20 grand off. Axis vinyl, until this year, was in fact thinner than malibus. There is no debate on that. The debate was the construction quality which, more or less, is determined by materials used and construction process. In that arena, the Axis is every bit as quality of a boat as a bu. Same resins, same construction, same stringer layup, same roving, same resin, same everything except for Plexus (which is my understanding no one else uses anyway). You wnat more than 2 colors, get a bu, want g3, get a bu, want malivue, get a but, want a quality constructed boat with a minimalist interior and pay 20 grand less (or more) look at the axis. No one is saying someone should buy an Axis over a bu if price is no object.

I don't disagree with any of this... just thought this thread needed some pics.

[bamabonners]

While I do believe that Axis is a quality built boat that is built by some of the nicest people I have ever met, there are differences between the two. Not great differences, but subtle differences.

Check out this video of Axis build:

look at the 2:27 mark. Notice that you do not see the additional steel supports in the hull like you see in the malibu:

Edited November 27, 2012 by bamabonners