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BUILD QUALITY OF A NAUTIQUE TO A MALIBU


NH_WAKE

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hay big D.. they do. new for 06 is a SAN 220 and it looks a lot bigger than the 210. think the 210 no longer has the "Super air" name, its been given to the 220.

my

Still not the good looking boat the 210 is. or near the room of an VLX or LSV IMOP.

I crawled around in that boat at that boat show and IMO it looked like CC was up against the clock and just threw that boat together. Nothing about it seemed practical, and the layout actually ruined a lot of its useable space. If CC could in some way just stretch the 210 to maybe a 240 and keep the same overall design they would have a huge hit on there hands! Assuming the wake shape was the same just a little bigger in size.

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How about the 7% surcharge on every boat that the regional warehouse adds. All owned by family members of the Maloons. Thats not something they use in there advertising.

Component costs, I don't really understand where there stuff is so much more money. I realize that PCM engines are more expensive then Indmar but, not necessarily better. They bag the foam in the upholstery, ask SGY about this one, a step that is unnecessary and can create problems. They shoot thicker gelcoat then sand all of it off to get the right thickness, WHY!!! They move the boat 19 times before it ever gets to final assembly. The new factory should take care of this circle jerk. Do they still use pinstripe tape instead of proper gelcoat taping? There boats overall are smaller using less material yet more expensive. Why does the prop still spin the other way. It can't be cheaper when your company is the only one that buys these, and it makes the boat harder to drive.

There is one step that use that I wish everyone would adopt. They route 2 lines, one above and one below the screws that hold the rub rail on. Keeps stress cracks from ever climbing any further then that line.

lxirod - If I lived in your climate I would not be typing. Biggrin.gif We still need +40 degrees and for the damned wind to stop. This has been by far the windiest winter in Colorado that I have ever witnessed, say that fast 5x.

Personally, I like the boat wars it shows the passion for the sport and it serves to educate people on the differances and similarities of the brands. I have learned more from other brand owners as I have from anywhere else. I guess that is not really saying much. Crazy.gif

Dwayne

I haven't been to the CC factory. Tried a couple of times but their tours have been suspended. I'm looking for some good things from CC after they get their new factory up and running. CC is like any other boat manufacturer, they do some things really well and other things, well you scratch your head. I don't get why CC wraps their cushions in plastic. My buddy's 1999 SN had problems with this--but he left it out all summer next to an uncovered dock. Man, that boat was waterlogged.

Most everything else covered above.

Dwayne, no worries here. Where you been lately? I was lucky enough to get to ski with Skisix yesterday and today. Water was dang cold. My body hurts.

Edited by SGY
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I was considering Nautique before my purchase, but to me the boat makes no sense. I have owned a 93 SN and wanted to go back in that direction with a 210 since my buddy has one and it's great..... now.

He started with a 02 210. 2 years later after many hull problems, he had the boat replaced by Nautique, not free of charge but pretty close. In 04 they changed some structural design, much to peoples disbelief. The 210 is the same hull as the 95 SSN. Not taking into account the added ballast tank weight they were getting much hull flex. Spider cracks around towers and windshields were common. Now the hull is re-inforced in the walk through to counter act this. Malibu has been doing that for years, as well as addressing other creature comforts, performance, and reliability.

My wife and I are 6ft tall+ and find that the Nautique seats are just too low to be comfortable. The seat backs are low as well. My buddy is 5'7", his wife 5', so the interior boat size and ergonomics matter very little. Their ballast pumps are rated lower GPH. Their tanks take up a lot of storage space. They are impossible to steer around docks. The observer's seat is ridiculous to open. These problems have been issues for many years and the company has yet to address them. When the try to introduce an answer (the 220) it turns out to be a cluttered and cramped 60K boat. And the list could go on.

So, my most recent experience with Nautique in terms of design, price and reliablility I just could not justify buying another.

My buddy- he says if the 06 VLX had been an option when he got his 04 210 he would have went Malibu. And so will your friends when they drive and board behind your boat. And the War is started.

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I noticed that skisix@38 just started a thread that makes me look like a wuss.

Dwayne

You are Maliboo. Let's get your boat out to see what she can do!!!!!

I agree with those who believe that this is an emotional decision based on a personal criteria. I think CC makes a great boat that will last just as long as anything else, drives as well as anything else and has as good a wake as anything else. I don't think it's better, and I don't care if anyone else does. I think it's just as wrong for a Bu owner to force his/her personal choices on a CC owner as the reverse of that.

Let's all get along and promote the sport!

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Like I said, its the passion that I like about the boat whores, I mean wars.

I would never try to change anyones opinion.

skisix - I tried my boat the other day, PP wasn't hooked up. its a good thing I know what to change to make it work. That was why Malibu only got an A- for execution.

Dwayne

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Like I said, its the passion that I like about the boat whores, I mean wars.

I would never try to change anyones opinion.

skisix - I tried my boat the other day, PP wasn't hooked up. its a good thing I know what to change to make it work. That was why Malibu only got an A- for execution.

Dwayne

No problems, I can figure it out. I don't think the new PP is any worse it's just different and so takes some getting used to. Walt got the new display in his boat and so we were tinkering all weekend long and it started to come pretty easy. The PP will be the same for all boats so why the low mark for that?

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Oh, and the custom exhaust system. Almost forgot! I'm sure that's cheaper than using optional off-the-shelf mufflers or straight pipes.

Not custom exhaust...my dad's 1992 Ski Ray had the exact same exhaust.

Edited by edwin
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I can only compare the slalom boats. I have found that the CC's drive like 'grampa's ol' cadillac', very smooth, comfortable, predictable and most of all... boring! No question, they are great in the course, but after pulling someone around for a few sets, I'm ready for a nap. Whereas with Malibu, you get the same overall consistency and ease of use, but with more acceleration and responsiveness - like driving a sportscar.

This is only a seat-of-the-pants comparison. I'm just not ready to drive the ol' Continental quite yet.

And then there's the lack of asthetic appeal. Atleast they went with the throwback graphics this year. Very appropriate.

All that said, you'll never hear me complain about being pulled behind one.

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I can tell you that I looked extremly hard at the Nautiques prior to ordering my 06 VLX (this is my sixth Malibu) and was really impressed with alot of things on the Nautique until I test drove the 06 211 and 220. The fit and finsh just didn't seem to be there ahd then the pure price of the 220 was crazy! I think that the two best boats made are Malibu and Nautique, just Nautique is charging ALOT more for there product.

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The performance comparison is simply the easiest way to crack wise to your Nautique buds. There's simply no comparison! Across the entire product lines, the Malibus will out-accelerate, out run, and out-handle the Nautiques. You have to drive them back to back to feel it, but it's true. Last summer, I had an RLX up at my lake. We switched off using that and a SN206 in the course. The SN206 is very solid and tracks well, but it doesn't have that flickable inboard feel. The RLX feels more like a sleek sexy dance partner than it does a ski boat.

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3. Floor actually built into the boat- there is no "floor piece" (or stringer piece) that is dropped in place and glued in. It simply has to cost more to do. Eliminates blind injection foaming. Add into that the aluminum engine frame which is glassed into the stringers, and also integrated into the pylon mount. Has to cost more than dropping in a pre-fab stringer system (FIBECS), gluing it down, and bolting the engine directly to it. Not saying it's better, it's got to be more expensive.

This is my biggest gripe with my RLXi - the pylon mount. Looks like something a jr high school kid would rig up on their Soap Box Derby car. I've got buddies with SN and MC - theirs looks like they are truely engineered. I'm sure it's more expensive, but no doubt theirs is better (by a long shot).

Edited by SunriseH2OSkier
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Haven't studied the mounts in a while, so forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I think 'bus is glassed in, as opposed to the u-bolted MCs. Perhaps thats a reason for the "unclean" look? Haven't looked at tique in a while.

Someone mentioned interior components earlier. 'bu has thicker foam, heavier vinyl, and far superior carpet. Not to mention the longevity of SS emblems to stitching is not even in the same league. That vinyl stitching can't be cheap, but I have yet to be in a 4 year old tique that it doesn't look horrible in.

pitot tubes are like 5 bucks, so theres some of the price diff. :lol: sorry, sorry, I couldn't help it. I hope CC still uses them or I'm gonna get it from someone!

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No problems, I can figure it out. I don't think the new PP is any worse it's just different and so takes some getting used to. Walt got the new display in his boat and so we were tinkering all weekend long and it started to come pretty easy. The PP will be the same for all boats so why the low mark for that?

Not because of PP but, for it not being hooked up. I think with there new standard speed control they don't test PP to see if it is working. It beeps when the RPM's are reached, just never takes over the throttle I think the only boats that get PP from Malibu will be the 3 event promo boats. Think of the sales loss of PP units. I would bet that last year they sold around 3000 units just to Malibu. Now that will be down to 100.

Its not a hard fix, you have to swap 2 pin locations on the main plug on the engine. I am still not all that impressed with the new PP display. I like the Accuski 100x better. I wonder if they will make a comeback now that every boat is DBW.

On another note. I looked at PlanetNautique for the first time. I don't feel bad at all for pointing out what makes Malibu's a better choice IMO, I am not doing it on a forum that includes all manufactures just Malibu and if someone asks why I have no problem telling them what I know. Just like on PN they have no problem spewing Nautique propaganda like they should.

Dwayne

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A couple items that may cost more, just materials and labor wise- you asked:

7. FCC - fuel control cell. Since 1996. HELLO!!!! Probably costs a dollar or two more to engineer this little guy. This way I don't have to drill portoles in my engine box to avoid vapor lock like some bu owners have. Has to cost more. Has to be better in this case.

I've been around Malibus for 10 years now and I've never heard of this one. Can someone fill me in?

Edited by brazosvet
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A couple items that may cost more, just materials and labor wise- you asked:

1. Custom made..... Lets the engine sit level since it also angles down 9 degrees to the shaft. Not saying it's better, it's got to be more expensive. Since 1989.

What was the old arguement for this anyway? I can't remember. Was it oil to the front cylinders or something like that? I don't recall any problems due to a tilted engine though.

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A couple items that may cost more, just materials and labor wise- you asked:

7. FCC - fuel control cell. Since 1996. HELLO!!!! Probably costs a dollar or two more to engineer this little guy. This way I don't have to drill portoles in my engine box to avoid vapor lock like some bu owners have. Has to cost more. Has to be better in this case.

I've been around Malibus for 10 years new and I've never heard of this one. Can someone fill me in?

LOL. Who's done that?

I like CC's ski boats. Next to the Response and the Lxi, the 196 and 206 are the best ones out there. Similar quality boats overall, I just like the Malibus better but, I wouldn't say one is better than the other.

I'm not into VDs but, going by looks and interior layout, the Malibus a far better. The CCs just don't have the lines or the layout.

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Not because of PP but, for it not being hooked up. I think with there new standard speed control they don't test PP to see if it is working. It beeps when the RPM's are reached, just never takes over the throttle I think the only boats that get PP from Malibu will be the 3 event promo boats. Think of the sales loss of PP units. I would bet that last year they sold around 3000 units just to Malibu. Now that will be down to 100.

Its not a hard fix, you have to swap 2 pin locations on the main plug on the engine. I am still not all that impressed with the new PP display. I like the Accuski 100x better. I wonder if they will make a comeback now that every boat is DBW.

On another note. I looked at PlanetNautique for the first time. I don't feel bad at all for pointing out what makes Malibu's a better choice IMO, I am not doing it on a forum that includes all manufactures just Malibu and if someone asks why I have no problem telling them what I know. Just like on PN they have no problem spewing Nautique propaganda like they should.

Dwayne

OK! I see now and understand the low mark. It should've been a lower mark in your case. I agree about the PP display, I'll give them a C for execution. Things like "offset RPM" should be a setting under the skier name, not under the system settings, for example.

PN members are a very quiet bunch when it comes to their boats, they don't drink any CC kool aide and are objective in their views about where other boat brands fall ;)

NOT!

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A couple items that may cost more, just materials and labor wise- you asked:

1. Custom made..... Lets the engine sit level since it also angles down 9 degrees to the shaft. Not saying it's better, it's got to be more expensive. Since 1989.

What was the old argument for this anyway? I can't remember. Was it oil to the front cylinders or something like that? I don't recall any problems due to a tilted engine though.

So the carb would sit level for better fuel distribution to cylinders, (PCM's way of thinking instead of using an offset plate on the intake).

brazosvet: Seen the boat Saturday for a brief moment, SS wedge plate looks great. More bling for the fish.

Edited by onamission
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A couple items that may cost more, just materials and labor wise- you asked:

7. FCC - fuel control cell. Since 1996. HELLO!!!! Probably costs a dollar or two more to engineer this little guy. This way I don't have to drill portoles in my engine box to avoid vapor lock like some bu owners have. Has to cost more. Has to be better in this case.

I've been around Malibus for 10 years new and I've never heard of this one. Can someone fill me in?

LOL. Who's done that?

I know at least one MBC member that has. In fact, they've commented on this very thread!

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ditto

I think the vapor lock problem was at it's worse 99-01 bicbw. Haven't seen anybody post about it for a long time.

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Also,

Many replies to what I've said here are "this is better" or "why do they do that" or "they didn't think of that originally" or "what's the point of that". Let me once again reiterate that we're talking dollars here. What costs more to do. For example: Who cares about the angle on the trans- I'm just betting on the fact that the PCM trans is a more expensive unit than the BW/ZF/Hurth or whatever unit is found on your bu. As in, the accounts payable person at Malibu cuts a smaller check for a part than the accounts payable person at CC. I'm betting this is true for most CC components relative to their bu counterparts. Thus there is some justification for the higher price of the CC. That's all I'm saying. I'm trying to separate this from a "which brand is better" argument.

Edited by M3Fan
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Skisix - The A- wasn't just for my boat. There are several areas that I think should be improved on. Throttle knobs coming loose, your pylon top coming loose, spare screws rolling around the bilge, carpet that turns brown every time it gets wet, hopefully that is now a non-issue. Its just little crap like that gives people ammo against them and gives others a reason to pick everything apart.

Fibecs and the pylon mounting system IMO are brilliant. Its as strong as anything on the market had 0 failure and makes the boat less expensive to manufacture. Bonding all this stuff together makes for a unibody boat. I personally like that the stringers are made to flow mass quantities of air and have through bolts that have easy access. To me it makes more sense having 3 parts turned into one, rather than 20 that use dissimilar materials. I would never, ever, question how CC and MC mount there motors and pylons, it is tried and true, so is Malibu's, its just different. I like that!

HDS I can't comment on to much. Out of the hundreds of boats that I personally had to deliver and work on there were 2 that had issues. 1) guy hit the same rock twice(HARD) at Lake Powell the second time it leaked it was not a very hard fix while the boat was being repaired. Then he sank it at Lake Powell. Not a lucky boat. 2) legit it leaked, repaired as instructed, about a 2 hour job. It never leaked again. I am still pulling fiberglass splinters out of my knuckles though :)

M3fan - FCC I do like. I know how to cure vapor lock on the Malibu's with .10 cents worth of materials.

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