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What speed?


kennyo

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Hey guys. I've been working on the course this summer and having fun doing it btw. My question to you all is, what speed did most of you use when first learning the course? I'm running at 32 and 15 off right now but wondering if I should slow it down some more because I'm still behind a bit.

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Hey guys. I've been working on the course this summer and having fun doing it btw. My question to you all is, what speed did most of you use when first learning the course? I'm running at 32 and 15 off right now but wondering if I should slow it down some more because I'm still behind a bit.

Tough to say without knowing why you're "behind"... Send me a plane ticket and I can assess the situation :whistle: But seriously, with so many ski schools in Florida, it will definitely be worthwhile to take some time with a good coach. The improvements will be (pretty much) immediate.

To answer your original question, when learning I was 32 @ 15 off, and eventually got to 36 @ 32 off (personal best)...

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Agreed, I good coach is huge. But if you can ski slower it will help. Depending on your size, and the size of the ski, but you should be able to take it back to 30.

Once you start making it regularly its easier to make adjustments. Running 2 buoys over and over again doesn't help anyone.

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I agree about the 15 off. I don't know anyone who uses a 75' rope. I started learning the course at 28mph, shadowing the buoys (skiing inside of them but turning at the right time). As my technique improved I was able to get closer and closer to going around them until one day it just clicked. I stayed at 28mph for a while, working on technique, then moved up to 30. I'm now somewhat consistent at 30mph and occasionally attempting 32. I hope to make a full pass at 32mph before the end of the season and then try 34mph.

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jkendallmsce

Find a ski school and spend a 1/2 day...it is mucho harder to "unlearn" bad habits, then to develop the correct habits/form/technique from the get go...

I was told to pull longer and harder at the start...which is not the way to go......but was great entertainment for the rest of the crew....you'll advance faster and have fewer yardsales with a little direction at the start.

That first section of rope is good to use tying your boat to the dock.....and a mini course to work on timing and technique...at 15 off and whatever speed you are comfortable at... timing is more important than you think... and don't get to anxious....get consistant at whatever speed you're at before bumping the speed...you'll have fewer injuries and crashes and develop fewer bad habits along the way.

Good luck

Edited by jkendallmsce
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Thanks for all the advise. Next time out, I'll back it down to 28 at 15 off and see how it goes. My concern is the wake size at the slower speed having the Sunsetter. Wonder how much different the response is at the slower speeds?

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it won't be the wake holding you back. not sure I follow everyone's logic on not ever running longline. there is a reason its the official first line length, but all good. IF we're talking 28 mph anyway both 15 and longline require 2 wake crossings. Just because everyone who has commented runs shorter than 15 doesn't mean its not the best way and provides the tightest line to learn how to round buoys which is quite a learning curve in itself.
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jkendallmsce

it won't be the wake holding you back. not sure I follow everyone's logic on not ever running longline. there is a reason its the official first line length, but all good. IF we're talking 28 mph anyway both 15 and longline require 2 wake crossings. Just because everyone who has commented runs shorter than 15 doesn't mean its not the best way and provides the tightest line to learn how to round buoys which is quite a learning curve in itself.

So anything shorter than 15 off does NOT require 2 wakes crossings...OMG, NOW I know what I have been wrong all these years!! ha ha

don't know the history as to how long line got started, but any tournament I have ever been to, I don't recall anyone starting at long line.

I don't know of anyone who recommends goin long line...the preferred and best method is to run the mini course...it helps with timing which like I said is critical....which you will not get at long line. ANd our group has had Willie E., Bob L. , Sneitzer amoung others out for lessons.

The only time I have ever seen someone try longline....there was alcohol and a bet involved

Edited by jkendallmsce
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At 22 and the skier's "max speed", and someone is skiing aggressively enough to run the course, in fact while you're crossing two wakes there is really only one wake crossing. The distinction is that there is no "up", across then "down". at 34, 22 (and beyond), its just one "bump". you know what I mean kendall.

At a tournament, you only get credit for chopping rope once max speed is achieved. Sure, once you get teh rhythm of the course would you WANT to start out a set longline, not likely, but I've seen it. But we're not talking tourney scores here were' helping someone run the course for the first time and IMO, at a speed like 28 where he is not getting light on the line, nor does rhythm even matter, the more time the better. More rope = more time.

As for longline, I learned 36 mph at longline. Is rhythm different, sure, as it is for going 15 to 22, 22 to 28 etc., but there is no doubt there is more time. I'm not saying mini course not good as well. But going to the real course from the mini is a huge jump. Longer line helps that. official buoy chart:

http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/divisions/3event/AWSASlalomBuoyQuickCountChart.pdf

Note 23 m is starting point for all divisions.

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Thanks for all the advise. Next time out, I'll back it down to 28 at 15 off and see how it goes. My concern is the wake size at the slower speed having the Sunsetter. Wonder how much different the response is at the slower speeds?

I wouldn't lower it below 30 myself, you'll start dragging and the ski just doesn't preform. I would recommend running a 32mph pass just so you feel the speed thne lower it to 30mph. While speed is very important technique/timing is king. I also would not recommend going longer than 15', you've already established familiarity and some sense of timing. Get a copy of West Coast Slalom DVD. Camps or being recorded so you can see your position is very important and well down right humbling. Watching yourself being recorded is so telling because you can hear it all day do this and that and you think you are...the video doesn't lie....lol

so 15' start @ 30 is my recommendation based upon that's what I did when I first got into course skiing.

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Yup, videos are good too... 85 Barefoot has a good point about one wake crossing (do it on edge, of course); We use the terms "before the first wake", and "after the second wake", but isn't it really one wake with two (or more) parts? Kinda like a "pair of pants"... :crazy:

My reasoning behind getting rid of the first 15' is, less rope to deal with, as any slack line (caused by bad body position) is accentuated by the longer (and springier) line... and, you can use it to tie up the boat...

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jkendallmsce

At 22 and the skier's "max speed", and someone is skiing aggressively enough to run the course, in fact while you're crossing two wakes there is really only one wake crossing. The distinction is that there is no "up", across then "down". at 34, 22 (and beyond), its just one "bump". you know what I mean kendall.

At a tournament, you only get credit for chopping rope once max speed is achieved. Sure, once you get teh rhythm of the course would you WANT to start out a set longline, not likely, but I've seen it. But we're not talking tourney scores here were' helping someone run the course for the first time and IMO, at a speed like 28 where he is not getting light on the line, nor does rhythm even matter, the more time the better. More rope = more time.

As for longline, I learned 36 mph at longline. Is rhythm different, sure, as it is for going 15 to 22, 22 to 28 etc., but there is no doubt there is more time. I'm not saying mini course not good as well. But going to the real course from the mini is a huge jump. Longer line helps that. official buoy chart:

http://www.usawaters...kCountChart.pdf

Note 23 m is starting point for all divisions.

I know the line lengths...

And what does being 22 year old have to do with anything?? NOw I really am confused!!

Actually at 28 off and beyond...where the big kids ski...you'll experience a trough not a bump. I am simply responding to what you have written.

And more time is not always a good thing, as if you go slow enough, you sink..or say at long line, you are simply plowing thru the water rather than cutting/slicing/on edge.

Edited by jkendallmsce
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Yup, videos are good too... 85 Barefoot has a good point about one wake crossing (do it on edge, of course); We use the terms "before the first wake", and "after the second wake", but isn't it really one wake with two (or more) parts? Kinda like a "pair of pants"... :crazy:

My reasoning behind getting rid of the first 15' is, less rope to deal with, as any slack line (caused by bad body position) is accentuated by the longer (and springier) line... and, you can use it to tie up the boat...

Slack elimination is a major point of using the whole rope. People get slack moving up the line, they're late to the ball, pull too long, tun up course....with rope all the way out, it is MUCH harder to get slack because the angles are much different. you don't have to get wide on the boat and even if running late, at a slower speed, you're never getting free of the boat, too much drag.

To OP, have fun and don't overthink it. Don't let us over-analyze it for you. If you're at a comfy speed and length to progress from, great. Want to run the course sooner than later and get used to not skiing to the ball (every noob's biggest problem), let tehe rope out, slow it down and learn some timing. Does timing change when you speed up and chop rope, yep, but at least there is a "scale" established for your brain. Skiing at the buoys and staying constantly late can be greta fun, just not as much fun as running it.

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The last 3 tournaments I've skied in (two of them were record capable) they didn't even have a 75' rope.

NO KIDDING :whistle::lol: Of course they don't have a 75' rope at a class R!! We're talking about someone trying to run the course for the first time!

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Malibudude has a good point about speed. Most modern skis are designed to perform at higher speeds, so if you get under 30 (like I previously suggested), the ski might not perform well.

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NO KIDDING :whistle::lol: Of course they don't have a 75' rope at a class R!! We're talking about someone trying to run the course for the first time!

They were class F, C, E, L and R. Half or more of the participants were class F or C.

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here's HO's lineup:

3 skis for 34-36, 5 skis with "speed step" technology, and 3 skis for "comfortable skiing at wakeboard speeds".

http://hosports.com/waterskis.php

I would agree, going 30 on Kidder redline, not a good idea. A relatively late-model, NON-top of the line ski will ride fine at 30 so long a sits sized correctly. Heck HO has the Mach 1 in the slow category, who knew!

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