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G-Mack

Re-sale Value of Engine Upgrades

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G-Mack

There was a thread a few days back that talked about the resale value of stereos. While I as crammed in the rear locker doing my winterizing today I started thinking about re-sale value of motor upgrades.

My boat has a hammerhead, when I bought it used I put no dollar value in the motor but it would have been a differentiator. If I had a like for like boat decision I would have went for the upgraded motor but I would not have paid more for it. What was the cost of the HH upgrade in 08?

With some of the motor upgrade costs now days what would an L93 or LSA bring in resale?

Edited by G-Mack

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Bradley Thornton

I would say it maybe worth a grand or two but not like 5,000 to me. I also think what boat would matter a lot some boats it is over kill. I have a 06 Vride and my friend has a 08 VLX and another had a 06 23ft LSV. The Vride and the VLX had the 5.7 340hp monsoon with a 1235 prop. 06 23ft LSV same motor but 537 prop. Surfing and wake boarding they all did fine. I will say I never seen the LSV with over factory ballast and wedge when wake boarding. Now surfing we had some weight. The point is Y would I pay for a bigger motor with worse gas mileage if I don't need it. Just my 2 cent.

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Night Rider

As for return, I can't say. Fuel statements like above, are given with no usage data supporting the claim. My LSA has a lower consumption rate in a larger boat than my VLX and monsoon. Is it enough to offset the cost? Probably not. It sure is nice to sack it out with all your friends with all the acceleration one has with an empty boat. From my experience Surfing burn rates have Ben 2 gallons less per hour. Wake boarding is closer to 1.5 gallons less depending on desired weight.so depending on fuel cost deltas and how long one intends on keeping it recovering the premium can be possible.

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Falko

I just bought an '04 23XTI. I was looking at two different boats, both identical, one with the Hammerhead 380 and the other the 340 ( i beleive it was). I ended up with the 380 for about $1500 more, but the boat also had fewer hours and was in better condition. So, I don't know if used the engine makes that big a difference. I can't compare performance, only ran the 380.

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Nitrousbird

I wouldn't have paid as much for our boat if it wasn't for the LS1. It was also was a deciding factor over a couple other boats as well.

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saidainc

do we really need to revisit this s*** again? No offense, but when resale is still mid five figures after 3-4 years of ownership, no one who shelled out an extra 5k is going to realize it in financial returns on resale. Im sorry but its never been a deciding factor for anyone I know who has purchased a used boat. Just a perk really and maybe worth a few hundred to a thousand more if the boat they are looking to buy has an engine upgrade.

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Nitrousbird

do we really need to revisit this s*** again? No offense, but when resale is still mid five figures after 3-4 years of ownership, no one who shelled out an extra 5k is going to realize it in financial returns on resale. Im sorry but its never been a deciding factor for anyone I know who has purchased a used boat. Just a perk really and maybe worth a few hundred to a thousand more if the boat they are looking to buy has an engine upgrade.

LOL, someone trying to justify their antiquated Monsoon engine purchase.

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Tims

I think it is sort of like selling a house with a pool. Sometimes they can add value but they can narrow your list of potential buyers if you are asking for that premium back.

Used boat prices tend to be more tied to location and time of the year rather than engine options. Most folks that purchase new boats at my local dealership could care less about the engine. Matter of fact, my dealer will only order the base engine with his showroom boats. According to him, the engine upgrades are not worth the money and make the boats harder to move off the lot because of the crazy premiums.

Personally, I would pay a premium for an upgraded engine, but not what Malibu charges.

Don't worry Nitrous, I will let him know what an idiot he is for selling boats equiped with those engines. :whistle:

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saidainc

LOL, someone trying to justify their antiquated Monsoon engine purchase.

Malibu is my third boat purchase and YES I bought the one with the Monsoon after asking for the engine upgrade and being talked out of by my dealer. 5 of my friends have boats and no one opted for an upgraded engine when they bought used, unless they liked the boat first and the damn engine came with it. The ones that bought 2011 and 2012 boats respectively bought a boat with a Monsoon. None of them have had problems either with the boat or on resale as one just sold his Malibu to get a Tige.

Im still waiting for these hordes of purported people to show up at our dealer and buy the one showroom 2012 that had the super expensive engine upgrade. I can still hear the crickets...

Edited by saidainc

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jkendallmsce

So how much more will the new 555 SC HP be worth in a used boat?? ARen't they about a $15k upgrade??

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TallRedRider

The 8.1 used to be a 14K upgrade.

I think the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn here is that for the people who want a bigger engine, it is important. I believe that Nitrous is in the minority by far. Finding that buyer is difficult when it comes time to sell, so although it might help a used boat to move more quickly, I don't think it is going to justify a large increase in price in most people's minds. As long as it doesn't suck getting out of the hole during a test drive.

Edited by TallRedRider

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sikvlx

So how much more will the new 555 SC HP be worth in a used boat?? ARen't they about a $15k upgrade??

yes its a 16k upgrade.. i ordered my mxz with the sc caddy engine for 2013

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shawndoggy

5 years from now (and certainly 10) I'd see a supercharged motor as a potential maintenance nightmare. How much does the supercharger cost to replace?

Unless you are on Tahoe or some other high altitude lake where big power is important, or unless it's a flagship boat (MXZ might fall into that category) I don't think a base motor hurts resale at all.

Given what I saw this weekend, most xstars, nautiques and bus are out there for tube pullin' and family time. That's your demographic on resale. It's the rare boat that's sacked to the max.

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gatorboy112

a boat is worth whatever a buyer will pay for it. there are people out there who want that big motor and I think they'll pay more for it but most people have no need for it and won't care what's in it.

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Lance B. Johnson

I see this quote from you over and over again. It's getting old. I think the numbers don't lie about how many Monsoons are out there doing an excellent job every day vs. the upgraded motors. This is true in boats or autos, how many "Upgraded" motors are in these autos that don't require more HP to work the way they were designed. I've had 23 LSV's for years and have never had the need for more motor than the Monsoon. Beyond that, I have never had one problem with a Monsoon in any of my boats, not one.

Now lets talk "Anitquated" in your 12 year old boat. I don't see anyone throwing that up in your face. The fact of the matter is that your 12 year old boat IS still doing you a great job just the same as our so called "Antique" GM power plants. You don't have all the changes of the new boats but you don't feel the need for them. If anyone feels the need and wants an upgraded motor they are welcome to get it. There is absolutely no reason to talk down to anyone that doesn't feel the need for upgraded motors. They are there as an option and I'm betting that Indmar & the boat builders make a lot more $$ off the upgrades on the Monsoon (and the customer) on that option.

Pretty much sums it up.

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jcochrane007

Given the choice between two otherwise identical boats, one with a Hammerhead and one with a Monsoon, and given my personal experience with a Hammerhead, I would choose the Monsoon.

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jkendallmsce

yes its a 16k upgrade.. i ordered my mxz with the sc caddy engine for 2013

Years ago, i bought a new 1998 LX, spent the added cash and got the monsson....buddies who had the same boat with the base engine (forget what it was called and how much HP they had) were just as fast, had just as good a hole shot as my monsoon. The difference in props made more of a difference than the engines!! If I had purchased the monsson expecting leaps and bounds better performance, I would have been POd. But the monsson had a better top end, better rolllers...

Our present LXI with LS3...hole shot is NOT as good as the monsoon (had to play with and change props to compensate for that poor hole shot), and I pull away (slightly) at about 3,000 rpm and above...and slightly is 1/2-1 boat lenght over the monsoon. The monsoon is the BEST 5.7 engine out there, gets its TQ at a lower rpm than the others. AT 220+ pounds, I know what gets me out outta the hole.

I have Indmar,s HP/TQ curves to show what the monsson does compared the the LS3, HH and 8.1... The LS3 and monsson are close to identical untial about 3,500 rpm, then the LS3 keeps pulling until it reaches 425 TQ at about 4500 rpm, while the monsson drops off/levels out.

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LS-One

In my extensive search for a used Sunsetter LX, I gave $250.00 more for a Black Scorpion, there was no Monsoon in 96. Since the boat had a heater and shower. I'm not sure the $250.00 all went towards the motor. I don't know what the upgrade price was in 96. I had a 23 LSV with the LS-One hence my screen name. I was told over and over by Malibu it was not a good wake boarding motor. Slalom, barefoot, runabout yes. The motor was not designed to power a heavily weighted boat, the Monsoon was a better choice. IIRC Indmar echoed Malibu's feelings. That was my deciding factor in selling that boat. I was completely honest with the guy I sold it to and he was not a huge wake boarder so it was all good.

The Black Scorpion puts out 35 ft. lbs. of torque less than the Hammerhead in my VLX. In a boat that weighs !000 lbs. less I couldn't be happier with the performance of my SSLX.

Edited by LS-One

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Tims

Years ago, i bought a new 1998 LX, spent the added cash and got the monsson....buddies who had the same boat with the base engine (forget what it was called and how much HP they had) were just as fast, had just as good a hole shot as my monsoon. The difference in props made more of a difference than the engines!! If I had purchased the monsson expecting leaps and bounds better performance, I would have been POd. But the monsson had a better top end, better rolllers...

Our present LXI with LS3...hole shot is NOT as good as the monsoon (had to play with and change props to compensate for that poor hole shot), and I pull away (slightly) at about 3,000 rpm and above...and slightly is 1/2-1 boat lenght over the monsoon. The monsoon is the BEST 5.7 engine out there, gets its TQ at a lower rpm than the others. AT 220+ pounds, I know what gets me out outta the hole.

I have Indmar,s HP/TQ curves to show what the monsson does compared the the LS3, HH and 8.1... The LS3 and monsson are close to identical untial about 3,500 rpm, then the LS3 keeps pulling until it reaches 425 TQ at about 4500 rpm, while the monsson drops off/levels out.

I know what you mean. My dealer had a LS1 powered LXI and the hole shot was not as good as my old 99 LX with the Monsoon. I could not believe it.

The tec guys at ACME props told me that the best motor for hole shot is the carbed verson of the Vortec 5.7

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jkendallmsce

Given the choice between two otherwise identical boats, one with a Hammerhead and one with a Monsoon, and given my personal experience with a Hammerhead, I would choose the Monsoon.

I HAD a HH, I now have a LS3....both were in LXIs...in large part to "my personal experience(s)" with the HH.

Edited by jkendallmsce

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TallRedRider

I have Indmar,s HP/TQ curves to show what the monsson does compared the the LS3, HH and 8.1... The LS3 and monsson are close to identical untial about 3,500 rpm, then the LS3 keeps pulling until it reaches 425 TQ at about 4500 rpm, while the monsson drops off/levels out.

Can those be published online? I would like to see them. Feel free to send me a PM to explain if necessary.

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Falko

Not to de-rail, but I have the 380 Hammerhead 5.7, what have you guys experienced as problems with the engine?

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Bill_AirJunky

Given the choice between two otherwise identical boats, one with a Hammerhead and one with a Monsoon, and given my personal experience with a Hammerhead, I would choose the Monsoon.

Amen to that. I had the choice. And knowing the history of all the motors, I picked the Monsoon, and would do it again too.

I think the engine may be the deciding factor for an informed buyer. But I doubt many people will pay more than a grand or so for it. Another one of those things that it just depends on the buyer, how much they want it, and how many others there are out there.

Edited by Bill_AirJunky

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jkendallmsce

Not to de-rail, but I have the 380 Hammerhead 5.7, what have you guys experienced as problems with the engine?

The HH is a 383 c.i. so it is 6.2 L. A 350/5.7 L that the stroke was increased.

Seems as if the engine was either ok from the factory, or there were lots of problems...each engine was different. Lots of existing discussions about that. If yours is running good, then you got a good one, and it is a great engine. It just does not have the low end stump pulling torque the monsoon has....and if you are a skier, you want to be pulled out like it means it.

Check with Indmar and make sure you have the correct dipstick. A newer dipstick, allowing more oil in the crankcase was sent to HH owners..

Bill is right as usual: NOt sure if you have/knew that.I don't recall reading/hearing about a monssoon failing ever...the 5.7 is the most mass produced engine ever and is almost indestuctible. Even if it is a dinasauer!!

Edited by jkendallmsce

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