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Poorman's Gate


martinarcher

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Nah. No way I'd make this permanently mounted. Not this summer anyways. It's too much material my family could hurt themselves on. I'm 100% comfortable with it back there when people are surfing and such, but I want it off when people are playing around on the platform. I've had kids hurt themselves on just the tow rings. Imagine that big wing. Besides I can move it from one side to another as quickly as the actuators could close one and open the other if I'm in a hurry. I can't do the wave to wave changes though during runtime obviously. If that's your goal then yeah, you'd have to mount it up.

I have considered it though. I need my stern really deep with the diamond hull to throw that wave, so I have to have a tall gate otherwise it all washes out like is being reported by some of the stock boats with the OEM gate. That means I'd need to re-engineer the loads to stand up under one actuators mount point. No way I'm buying two actuators per gate. No biggee since I was going to lay a fiberglass gate or maybe mill it from aluminum this winter. The length of the actuator is also an issue. The shortest Lenco ones are almost as long as the whole assembly. I still want it removable for a lot of reasons so the actuator has to mount to the bracket, not the hull. A new bracket made out of aluminum could probably be cleaned up with an under-mount actuator and a clean NEMA4X through hull connector would let me get power to it while still being removeable.

Controlling it isn't a big deal as I already have an Arduino kit controlling SPI addressable LED lights and stuff. Running some relays with timers and a calibration routine from it would be easy.

Hmmmmm, now I'm wondering if I could do it? I guess I'll fab up two of these over the winter out of modern material. Can't hurt to have a spare and maybe I'll leave myself the option to do some serious wakesurf shaping.

Now see what you've gone and done..... the projects never cease.

:lol: I do what I can. :lol: You could certainly do it, but I understand why you wouldn't want one there permanently. I'll also be using an Arduino or possibly a Netduino. I might save the Netduino for a winter update. I think it would be neat to do a wireless phone controlled gate. I did a Netduino project last winter and developed a LED sign controller that is run by an Andriod tablet. I think I could port some of that for this project, but in the meantime I think I'll use the Arduino that is already in the boat and controlling the GPS speedo in the boat.

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Hah. We should have an Arduino project forum. I've been playing with a wifi shield to do an iOS app for controlling my lights. Knobs and switches are a nice backup, but for full range addressable color I could do a lot more with an app. My company has even started to use an arduino as our USB to i2c interposed board for talking to our digital power chips. I even saw radio shack selling the stuff last month.

To another post - there's nothing wrong with wood as long as it isn't plywood or osb or particle board. We made boats out of it through human history until recently after all. It just requires some prep and maintenance. It's cheap, sustainable, and easily worked for prototyping.

And I didn't get out for that video on the normal side tonight. I've got a second for tomorrow so I'll get a bunch more video of that and the gate working. I'm not a surf connoisseur, but the little bit I rode yesterday off video felt just as good. I watched Ronnie surf on and off the platform no prob.

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Since I have small kids and would worry about having the gates permanently mounted to the boat, I hope someone can figure out a way to add two removable gates with actuators and neutrik wire connector so we still have the ability to switch on the go.

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Hah. We should have an Arduino project forum. I've been playing with a wifi shield to do an iOS app for controlling my lights. Knobs and switches are a nice backup, but for full range addressable color I could do a lot more with an app. My company has even started to use an arduino as our USB to i2c interposed board for talking to our digital power chips. I even saw radio shack selling the stuff last month.

To another post - there's nothing wrong with wood as long as it isn't plywood or osb or particle board. We made boats out of it through human history until recently after all. It just requires some prep and maintenance. It's cheap, sustainable, and easily worked for prototyping.

And I didn't get out for that video on the normal side tonight. I've got a second for tomorrow so I'll get a bunch more video of that and the gate working. I'm not a surf connoisseur, but the little bit I rode yesterday off video felt just as good. I watched Ronnie surf on and off the platform no prob.

Right on. Sounds like your into the controls business like I am. I usually don't hear terms like NEMA4X outside work. :lol: You have a connector in mind? I was thinking a small waterproof LEMO connector might work, but a NEMA4X rated connector would certainly do the job. :)

I'm planning on making my permanent gate out of teak. I've got 15 board feet coming. The hinges I bought will also allow the gate to be taken off the hinge. The electrical connection to the actuator is my only remaining "quick connect" requirement.

I got an email this morning....my actuators are on back order. :Doh:

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Since I have small kids and would worry about having the gates permanently mounted to the boat, I hope someone can figure out a way to add two removable gates with actuators and neutrik wire connector so we still have the ability to switch on the go.

Neutrik's are great connectors for dry or even splash prone areas, but I wouldn't consider them for an underwater application.

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I'm a field apps engineer for a semiconductor company. My specialty is power electronics. So playing with the arduino has me channeling that one C++ class I took in college 15 years ago and all the MS Excel VBA I've written since. Still, it's fun to make lights blink. LOL.

Neutrik's are great connectors for dry or even splash prone areas, but I wouldn't consider them for an underwater application.

For sure. Neutrik isn't an "underwater" connector. I wonder if IP66 rated connectors are also good at immersion? IP67 and IP68 are the immersion ratings. IP68 being the most stringent. Bulgin has a nice 900 series Bucaneer connector product line that's IP68 rated and includes all sorts of panel mount receptacles that include a cover when not mated. That's probably what I'd use. Easily gotten from Mouser or Digikey. I'm not sure how well it'd work to try and mate the connector while immersed though. I've never actually tested anything like that with an IP68 connector.

Teak would definitely be classy. With my hull shape though I have this vision of something more Michael Bay. That is aluminum for strength and overly complicated. LOL. Aggie engineering at its best. I haven't quite given up on the idea of the SlurpeeGate unfolding into position. I was being told how the non-deployed OEM gate drags in the water making an effect on the surf wake. My gate would definitely do that if I had two. So I was dreaming up how a piston could drive an origami effect that wouldn't be susceptible to the drag of the water while underway.

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I'm a field apps engineer for a semiconductor company. My specialty is power electronics. So playing with the arduino has me channeling that one C++ class I took in college 15 years ago and all the MS Excel VBA I've written since. Still, it's fun to make lights blink. LOL.

For sure. Neutrik isn't an "underwater" connector. I wonder if IP66 rated connectors are also good at immersion? IP67 and IP68 are the immersion ratings. IP68 being the most stringent. Bulgin has a nice 900 series Bucaneer connector product line that's IP68 rated and includes all sorts of panel mount receptacles that include a cover when not mated. That's probably what I'd use. Easily gotten from Mouser or Digikey. I'm not sure how well it'd work to try and mate the connector while immersed though. I've never actually tested anything like that with an IP68 connector.

Teak would definitely be classy. With my hull shape though I have this vision of something more Michael Bay. That is aluminum for strength and overly complicated. LOL. Aggie engineering at its best. I haven't quite given up on the idea of the SlurpeeGate unfolding into position. I was being told how the non-deployed OEM gate drags in the water making an effect on the surf wake. My gate would definitely do that if I had two. So I was dreaming up how a piston could drive an origami effect that wouldn't be susceptible to the drag of the water while underway.

didn't understand a word you wrote....but can i buy one off you?

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Neutrik's are great connectors for dry or even splash prone areas, but I wouldn't consider them for an underwater application.

I didn't think they could be used underwater, so somewhere near the rear vents would work.

post-134-0-47770800-1346972029_thumb.jpg

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"Aggie Engineering" Whoooooop!

Need to upload the pics, but I've got my prototype made, of Aluminum angle and square tube, along with a HDPE "gate".

Two pieces of angle form the mounting brackets attached to the platform, the tube slides in, pin the hold them in place, attached to an HDPE 'gate." Hope to finish it up in the morning.

Edited by CoMtnBu
  • Like 1
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I'm a field apps engineer for a semiconductor company. My specialty is power electronics. So playing with the arduino has me channeling that one C++ class I took in college 15 years ago and all the MS Excel VBA I've written since. Still, it's fun to make lights blink. LOL.

For sure. Neutrik isn't an "underwater" connector. I wonder if IP66 rated connectors are also good at immersion? IP67 and IP68 are the immersion ratings. IP68 being the most stringent. Bulgin has a nice 900 series Bucaneer connector product line that's IP68 rated and includes all sorts of panel mount receptacles that include a cover when not mated. That's probably what I'd use. Easily gotten from Mouser or Digikey. I'm not sure how well it'd work to try and mate the connector while immersed though. I've never actually tested anything like that with an IP68 connector.

Teak would definitely be classy. With my hull shape though I have this vision of something more Michael Bay. That is aluminum for strength and overly complicated. LOL. Aggie engineering at its best. I haven't quite given up on the idea of the SlurpeeGate unfolding into position. I was being told how the non-deployed OEM gate drags in the water making an effect on the surf wake. My gate would definitely do that if I had two. So I was dreaming up how a piston could drive an origami effect that wouldn't be susceptible to the drag of the water while underway.

Those Bulgin connectors are sweet. The flange mount would be perfect. I think the 900 series might be a shade on the big size though. I talked to Lenco and the OD of the actuator wire is 3/8" (about 9mm). I think the standard connector might work pretty well as they are still IP68 rated and would still "take the plunge" OK. I don't either would be too good at connecting/disconnecting underwater.

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"Aggie Engineering" Whoooooop!

Need to upload the pics, but I've got my prototype made, of Aluminum angle and square tube, along with a HDPE "gate".

Two pieces of angle form the mounting brackets attached to the platform, the tube slides in, pin the hold them in place, attached to an HDPE 'gate." Hope to finish it up in the morning.

Ooh. Ooh. I really want to see. Hurry up.

  • Like 1
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Yeah. The 400 series are a better fit now that I look at the drawings. I'd have a really well hung boat with that 900 series. Lol.

Those Bulgin connectors are sweet. The flange mount would be perfect. I think the 900 series might be a shade on the big size though. I talked to Lenco and the OD of the actuator wire is 3/8" (about 9mm). I think the standard connector might work pretty well as they are still IP68 rated and would still "take the plunge" OK. I don't either would be too good at connecting/disconnecting underwater.

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I'm a field apps engineer for a semiconductor company. My specialty is power electronics. So playing with the arduino has me channeling that one C++ class I took in college 15 years ago and all the MS Excel VBA I've written since. Still, it's fun to make lights blink. LOL.

For sure. Neutrik isn't an "underwater" connector. I wonder if IP66 rated connectors are also good at immersion? IP67 and IP68 are the immersion ratings. IP68 being the most stringent. Bulgin has a nice 900 series Bucaneer connector product line that's IP68 rated and includes all sorts of panel mount receptacles that include a cover when not mated. That's probably what I'd use. Easily gotten from Mouser or Digikey. I'm not sure how well it'd work to try and mate the connector while immersed though. I've never actually tested anything like that with an IP68 connector.

Teak would definitely be classy. With my hull shape though I have this vision of something more Michael Bay. That is aluminum for strength and overly complicated. LOL. Aggie engineering at its best. I haven't quite given up on the idea of the SlurpeeGate unfolding into position. I was being told how the non-deployed OEM gate drags in the water making an effect on the surf wake. My gate would definitely do that if I had two. So I was dreaming up how a piston could drive an origami effect that wouldn't be susceptible to the drag of the water while underway.

Wonder if rotating the gate to a horizontal position would be better, like a trim tab but higher, near the height of your teak platform. Add another piston and a little more complexity on the hinge setup...you design it and they will come!

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Since I have small kids and would worry about having the gates permanently mounted to the boat, I hope someone can figure out a way to add two removable gates with actuators and neutrik wire connector so we still have the ability to switch on the go.

I have been thinking about this A LOT! I mounted trim tabs and have been attaching different "gates" to it to test out. Unfortunately, any further testing will have to wait until next spring because I had to winterize the boat last weekend!

Here is the progression of what I tried:

First gate that was too small

100_1160.JPG

100_1159.JPG

Next gate to try if length had any effect

100_1161.JPG

It seemed to help, but there still was just something wrong. Also, it made steering the boat at slow speed terrible.

I then figured out that it was the spray coming over the gate, so I created this:

100_1165.JPG

100_1164.JPG

This worked OK, but it definitely needs to be longer. So, the next steps are to get some HDPE that I can cut longer, make it wider at the furthest point from the boat, and then figure out how to make the entire gate removable for non-surf usage of the swim platform. I have been thinking of having a small HDPE board permanently attached to the hinge (trim tab) and actuator, then figure out how to quickly and easily attach the gate to it. Any ideas?

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Cool man. I love the progression. Is that a 102 actuator or a 101? (4.5" throw or 2.5"). I'm curious since you don't have a 2013 platform, if your gate is tucked in all the way against the platform is it enough to get it completely out of the high speed wake when boarding or skiing?

Also, how does that actuator like being stopped by something like a platform? Does it have a built in clutch? I know at the end of the travel they are built to freewheel when power is applied after reaching the end of travel, but I don.t know how they react to an object interfering their path when between endpoints. I'm curious.

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Holy smokes! I checked back to this thread and looks like a lot of people have been busy!

Cool innovations. TMC is once again a valuable R&D arm for Malibu. :)

Gates -- If I recall, mine are around 19.5" x 9 or 9.5" or so. But mine also start in more from the edge (off brackets) and are angled a little different, so I don't know how that really compares. It seems to work just fine. Obviously every boat is gonna be different and I'll bet there shouldn't be a one size-size-is-best universal gate.

I'll try to post some pics this weekend for anyone with my style hull. Glad the smart guys are figuring out the electronics. My gates are just manual for now.... but next summer or off season I'd want to upgrade. That will make the handling much better. Thanks for sharing control ideas guys, I'll be reading with great interest.

Even without worrying about dialing in the perfect wave, just having the ability to quickly switch between goofy and regular riders - and giving everyone multiple turns - has been nice. Pretty sure we've surfed more hours the last 3 weeks than the past 3 years. Maybe this will end up being negative -- my kids will get more into it and want a sacked out 247 or something. :)

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It was just a matter of time...Seams like Malibu will always be a trend setter, 622578_492585914103242_1592377744_o.jpg

Pretty cool to see that my surfgate contraption got cross-posted here. Since it seems many people here are interested, I'll update on mine.

to the person asking how they are attached, there are wood screws going up into the bottom of the swim platform. Also, the metal strap holds up just fine. I've ridden behind this setup 4 or 5 times now.

I weight my boat evenly, but move people to the surf side, and that seems to work really well.

So, I am working on v2. Made some new tabs out of HDPE:

IMG_20120830_190814.jpg

IMG_20120830_190755.jpg

Also, I bought a set of used Bennett Trim Tabs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Trim-tabs-Complete-system-/320977596198?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item4abbc16f26&vxp=mtr

The bennett trim tabs will be the last piece that I install. I want to make sure that I know EXACTLY how I want to mount the tab.

In the case of my boat, I am using this as a two-fold addtion. If you'll notice, my boat has spray pockets there on the back. I want the surf tab to fill in the spray pocket when "at rest". Then I want to deploy them out for surfing. I am hoping that filling them in at rest will help my wakeboard wake. If that is successful, then I will mount them flush with the side of the boat.

If that does not work, and the wakeboard wake is inturrupted, then I will change plans and mount the tab an inch or two inside the transom, to get it out of the way of the wake at wakeboarding speeds.

So, untill I can do enough testing to determine that aspect, I will not drill anything into the fiberglass on my boat.

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Hey -- what do you guys think about the length of the swim platform ? (distance from transom to outer edge, not side to side). I have teak and wanted to add another 3-4 inch piece, but am afraid it will mess up wake. I've already narrowed the platform for the gates and surfwake, just not sure if a little more length would matter. I try to see next time I'm out, but just wondered if you guys have played with this. Thanks!

Edit -- it's about 18.5" now.

Edited by rugger
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I have been thinking about this A LOT! I mounted trim tabs and have been attaching different "gates" to it to test out. Unfortunately, any further testing will have to wait until next spring because I had to winterize the boat last weekend!

Here is the progression of what I tried:

First gate that was too small

100_1160.JPG

100_1159.JPG

Next gate to try if length had any effect

100_1161.JPG

It seemed to help, but there still was just something wrong. Also, it made steering the boat at slow speed terrible.

I then figured out that it was the spray coming over the gate, so I created this:

100_1165.JPG

100_1164.JPG

This worked OK, but it definitely needs to be longer. So, the next steps are to get some HDPE that I can cut longer, make it wider at the furthest point from the boat, and then figure out how to make the entire gate removable for non-surf usage of the swim platform. I have been thinking of having a small HDPE board permanently attached to the hinge (trim tab) and actuator, then figure out how to quickly and easily attach the gate to it. Any ideas?

I think you got a little too aggressive with the mounting angle on the trim tab actuator. You should have mounted the actuator end a little closer to the center of the tab, and had the base of the actuator a little closer to the middle of the boat. The positioning that you have is not going to provide a whole lot of strength, and also will limit the angle at which you can deploy the tab.

Edited by boardjnky4
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Hey -- what do you guys think about the length of the swim platform ? (distance from transom to outer edge, not side to side). I have teak and wanted to add another 3-4 inch piece, but am afraid it will mess up wake. I've already narrowed the platform for the gates and surfwake, just not sure if a little more length would matter. I try to see next time I'm out, but just wondered if you guys have played with this. Thanks!

Not a bad idea, but be careful that it will not drag in the water. I would do some runs with the boat weighted at the max to see how much room you have to lengthen.

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Cool man. I love the progression. Is that a 102 actuator or a 101? (4.5" throw or 2.5"). I'm curious since you don't have a 2013 platform, if your gate is tucked in all the way against the platform is it enough to get it completely out of the high speed wake when boarding or skiing?

Also, how does that actuator like being stopped by something like a platform? Does it have a built in clutch? I know at the end of the travel they are built to freewheel when power is applied after reaching the end of travel, but I don.t know how they react to an object interfering their path when between endpoints. I'm curious.

It's the 101 (2.5") that came with the trim tab kit. Yes, the gate is tucked right up to the platform, and due to the angle of the transom, it angles downward to tuck in even more. It doesn't interfere with the wake at any speed. I actually found that the longer gate eliminates the problem with the corner of the swim platform digging in (on the surf side, so gate not deployed). I didn't have a chance to test the long gate that is 15" high with the "deflector" at the top, so I am very curious if anyone else tests this or I do next srping.

I have the actuator mounted such that the gate doesn't hit the swim platform. The travel of the actuator stops right as the gate touches the platform. Being that it is the 2.5" actuator, I had to maximize the use of the travel. I think this is why I had to go with a longer gate, too. That is, to compensate for less angle.

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