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blk93jeepzj

Damper Plate Failure - Why?

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blk93jeepzj

I know that the damper plate/ride plate has been discussed to great lengths on here, from failures to upgrades and replaceing. What I have never been able to find through the readings is what causes the damper plate to fail. When I dropped the new engine in my 04 LSV over the winter I went ahead and upgraded to the improved Indmar sealed ride plate. Could not use the heavy duty one since I have the ZF 45 tranmission and it would not fit.

Our neighbors have an 05 LSV and while on vacation last week their damper plate went out again. Original=toast, second was and OEM open spring=toast, third was a sealed spring=toast last week. I know that 05 is notorious for problems but to have gone through 3 damper plates and now on the 4th seems extreme, boat has almost 700 hours and has the ZF 45 transmission as well.

So my question is why/what causes the damper plate/ride plate to fail? Any theories?

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blk93jeepzj

Really? No one has any thoughts.

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blk93jeepzj

Thanks Ronnie, will do.

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Murphy8166

I wonder if it could be how hard you take the throttle from neutral to speed.

I have always put the throttle in idle for a least 1 second prior to pushing it down to pull up the rider. Even then it is about a 2 second push on the throttle to get it to where it needs to be to pull up the rider.

I have been with people you just mash it down out of neurtal and it does not feel good to anyone while in the boat....and I'm sure it does the damper plate no favors.

What about the rate at which people for from foward to reverse?

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Lance B. Johnson

I'm surprised he hasn't responded to any of the threads about this. At least from what I've seen.

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Lance B. Johnson

I think I'm going to replace mine this winter preventative.

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JohnSchneider

I am looking at purchasing a 2005. Should I be worried about this? Are they costly to replace? Thanks for the help.

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gregtay

Does the boat you are looking at still have the original plate?  I don’t remember all the details (I think there was a thread on Wake World many years ago with specifics and maybe the cost) but yes... it was a real issue. My friend had his go out right around the hours that it typically happens. We were out camping and put the boats in the water and he went to pull the first rider and bam, clank, clank, clank. It was done for the trip. If the motor in the boat you are looking at has really high hours then either it was already replaced or may not be effected. I think it typically happened in the 300-400 hour mark (but I could be wrong)... but I now it wasn’t super high hours.

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Steve B.

Yes, it could be an issue. Like Greg said, maybe it's been done. Definitely check.  As I recall, there were a few cases when the plate goes, it can take out the engine.

Steve B.

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blk93jeepzj

So this was my thread originally.  I know I have commented on this in other threads as well, search around a bit for more information.  

Even though I replaced mine when I replaced my engine as a preventative maintenance, the new one still let go and it took out the bell housing.  Further investigation points to the bell housing in that year range (late 04 - early 06) across different brands as well.  There were bad casting on the bell housing and it caused an alignment issue from the engine to the transmission.  Seems as if the damper plate is not the true issue but is the weaker link that will fail.  Hopefully it takes out the bell housing so both have to be replaced instead of just the damper plate being replaced and waiting for it to fail again.   

Check to see if the bell housing has been replaced, new updated model has a top and bottom starter position on it.  The top position will have a plate over it.  Here is the part number # 531410P.  

Mine is working great since I replaced both.  Neighbor that had so many issues, finally it took out the bell housing and it had to be replaced. They haven't had issues since replacing both.  

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Nitrousbird
On 2/28/2019 at 10:25 AM, JohnSchneider said:

I am looking at purchasing a 2005. Should I be worried about this? Are they costly to replace? Thanks for the help.

Yes, you should be.  I would be concerned about any of the '04 - '06 GEN-I SBC plates/bell housings.  I am certain a different housing is used on the big block and likely a different damper plate, so probably not an issue there. 

If you find a '04-'05 with the LS1 motor (not a lot of them in the wild), that may be okay as well.  Likely a different bell housing and might be a different damper plate. 

Without verified receipts of a damper plate, all bolts and bell housing replacement, I wouldn't buy a '04 - '06 unless I got it for 4-5k less than one with all that replaced.  This failure happens way too often. 

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powbmps
On 2/28/2019 at 10:25 AM, JohnSchneider said:

I am looking at purchasing a 2005. Should I be worried about this? Are they costly to replace? Thanks for the help.

What kind of boat?  Not too hard to replace on a DD.  I'm assuming it would be more difficult/expensive on a V-drive, though.

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Steve B.
14 hours ago, powbmps said:

What kind of boat?  Not too hard to replace on a DD.  I'm assuming it would be more difficult/expensive on a V-drive, though.

Thats a good question. Does it happen equally on both dd and v drives ?

Steve B.

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blk93jeepzj

IIRC, there was originally a separate part for the DD and VD bell housings.

The new bell housing can work for either the DD or VD since it has a spot for top mount or bottom mount starter. 

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joaquin12345

Does anyone have an idea whatbit cost to replace?  Dealer price and then also DIY’er. If you did it yourself did you remove engine?  

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blk93jeepzj

damper plate -  https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-drive-dampener-plate-heavy-duty-all-gm-motors.html

bell housing - https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-bell-housing-for-gm-top-or-bottom-mount-starter.html

You do not need to remove the engine to do this.  Not sure of the costs for dealership replacement.  

Loosen the engine mounting bolts, rear.  Take nuts of engine mounting bolts, front.  This allows you to pivot the engine up and down.  If you have access to a forklift, tractor or overhead hoist of some kind.  

Move rear most center seat base.  Disconnect drive shaft.  Remove the v-drive and transmission.  Remove the bell housing, remove the damper plate. 

Clean anything you can if there is excess grease and oil from damper plate letting go.   

Install new damper plate.  Install new bell housing.  Re-attach transmission, and V drive.  

Bolt engine back down.  

Align the drive shaft.

 

These are way simplified instructions, I can get more detailed ones for you if you need them.  Takes about a day start to finish if you haven't done it before.  Overall it's not a hard project, time consuming yes, but the engine does not need to come out and is faster to pull trans and vdrive.  

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joaquin12345

Blk93 can you send me detailed instructions? I’m pretty good at mechanical work just didn’t know if I had to remove engine. Dealership made it sound like it was a must. 

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blk93jeepzj

I'll get them typed up, it's been a couple years so it's a little fuzzy.  Mechanic at the local dealership that talked me thru it said they never pulled the engine, easier to pull the trans.  

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blk93jeepzj

So here we go.  First I started by removing the 3 rear sun pad pieces.  Unscrewed from the long SS piano hinges and pulled the shocks.  Gives you more room to get in and out of the sides easier.  You will need a way to lift the engine and hold it, some sort of hoist to allow you to get the vdrive, transmission, bell housing off and out.  

Remove the 3 rear seat cushions.  On the backside of the seat bases there are SS L brackets that hold the seat bases in place.  Remove all the screws.  There are some hidden screws that hold the sections together.  You will have to use a phillips head screwdriver to feel around for them.  The only section that you really need to remove is the center section in front of the Vdrive.  Lay some large sections of cardboard down to protect the carpet from grease and oils.  

Remove the 2 ballast pumps next to the V drive.  Remove main water supply hose that goes into the V drive and the hose that comes out of the Vdrive.  

Disconnect the Drive shaft from the Vdrive.  

Disconnect and remove the muffler.  Should not need to remove the hoses that come off the manifold.  

Loosen stern engine mounting nuts.

Mark the current alignment on the bow side engine mounting bolts so that you can get it close when you put everything back together.  Remove the Front engine mounting nuts.  This will allow you to pivot the engine up and down to get the correct angles to get the Vdrive off and transmission out.  

Attach a chain to the rear of the engine close to where the bell housing is.  There should be an open threaded hole.  Or there maybe an engine lifting loop as well (it has been a couple years).

Remove any wires  or hoses that are connected to the Vdrive.  Remove the bolts holding the Vdrive to the transmission.  Remove the Vdrive.  May have to raise lower the engine to get it to free up and come out of the hole. Try not to tip it too much so that the fluid does't run out.

Remove shift cables from transmission.  Remove any wires or hoses connected to the transmission.  Remove bolts holding the transmission to the bell housing.   Remove the transmission.   May have to raise lower the engine to get it to free up and come out of the hole.   Try not to tip it too much side to side so that the fluid doesn't run out.  

Remove bracket that holds ECU.

Remove bolts and splash plate on bottom of Bell Housing.

Remove Starter.  

Can't remember if there is anything else attached or in the way of the bell housing.  There may be wires harnesses that need to be unplugged to allow room.  High pressure fuel pump is in the way also on the Starboard side.  

Remove bolts of Bell Housing.

Remove Bell housing.

Remove bolts that hold damper plate to the flywheel.  

Remove Damper plate. 

Clean up the Flywheel and anything else while you are in there.  

Now to reverse the order.....

Install Damper plate and torque bolts. 

Install new bell housing, torque bolts. 

Install splash shield, either there is a gasket or you can make one with permatex gasket maker.  Easier to install now since you can control the angle of the engine a little.  

(Good time to replace the packing for the drive shaft, never easier to get to than now.  Drip rate will have to be adjusted once the boat is back in the water.) 

Can replace any hoses that you have taken off too if you think they need it.  

Clean off the surfaces of the transmission and the vdrive, where the two attach to each other. 

Install the transmission, torque bolts.

Couldn't find a replacement gasket for in between the transmission and vdrive, so I used permatex gasket maker.  Put a bead around the edge.  Install the vdrive and wait to torque the bolts per the gasket manufactures suggestions.  Maybe easier to drain the vdrive so oil doesn't run out and onto the new liquid gasket.  

Set engine back down and tighten the bow side engine mounts, tighten stern engine mounts.  

Reattach any wiring harnesses, hoses, ballast pumps, fuel pumps, ect that needed to be taken off.  Torque anything to the appropriate specs.  

If the Vdrive has been torqued, reattach the driveshaft (Note, the engine/transmission/vdrive will need an alignment to the driveshaft.)

Put lower seat back together, reinstall the sun pad.

Should be ready to hit the lake and adjust drip rate if you replaced driveshaft packing.  

  

 

 

 

Think I'm done, but I'll think on it some more too. 

Edited by blk93jeepzj
Back to add more info.

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