Sur'Fin Would you want one?

[Levi900RR]

Selling is Still up in the air, it does work on a teak deck.

[nyryan2001]

Levi- how are you going to account for the different shaped hulls? 22,23, 247? All of them have a different contours back there.

[BSUBU_Kris]

$100,000 will get you nowhere in patent litigation. It is great that you figured out a nice DIY solution to this but once you try to market it Malibu will have no choice but to go after you with everything they have. It would not be in their best interest to not pursue patent infringement. Even if their patent isn't perfect they can likely destroy you with legal fees.

As others mentioned insurance would be a must to protect yourself if you were able to sell this.

IMHO, I would enjoy our solution to this, maybe share your idea with some friends and look for another idea that has not already been implemented by a big company.

[Deephaven]

Perhaps the work around is to sell the bracket for something else. Piece meal the rest of the DIY pieces together. Most people on here would be too lazy for the custom piece....just make sure it works for something else too. Perhaps an LED holder.

[Deephaven]

Oh, and I'd buy one of those from you today and sign an NDA saying I will not post or share anything so someone can copy.

[Bartdude]

Being that Malibu is not marketing theirs to older boats, but only new ones, "might" give you a little wiggle room. But another point is that insurance liability costs could be huge.

What happens when someone tries to go faster and at what speed point is the pressure too much for the tab? I would think you'd want a break away part to protect things for that situation. I'd be willing to drill and reinforce the back of my boat to protect against the potential forces..

I am interested though

[skiatook_bu]

Malibu will have no choice but to go after you with everything they have. It would not be in their best interest to not pursue patent infringement. Even if their patent isn't perfect they can likely destroy you with legal fees.

Does anybody have a link or number for this mythical patent? I searched and could not find anything.

[LiquidCourage]

I am no patent attorney, but have been going through the patent process myself for the last 7 years. I believe that Malibu would have filed for a patent before this became "public knowledge", so they would be covered once it was approved. Since it is now public knowledge, you would have a hard time patenting it, or any version building on it. I have spent well over $20k over the last 7 years on a simple device that no one has or is currently making, so $100,000 to help with infringement would be a drop in the bucket.

What about selling the "magic" mounting bracket? Like someone else said, it could be an LED or accessory holder. Might also make your manufacturing and liability cost go way down- IMO.

[Molarbu]

Just make it and sell me one already! My XTI needs some help surfin!

[thtrog]

Does anybody have a link or number for this mythical patent? I searched and could not find anything.

Watch this video very closely....

http://vimeo.com/47877912

[skiatook_bu]

I found only these patent applications:

PUB. APP. NO. Title 1 20120167812 Wake Shaping System 2 20110209654 WAKE TOWERS AND METHODS OF USE AND MANUFACTURE THEREOF 3 20100083888 METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR DAMPENING RUDDER VIBRATION

[Chia]

there is nothing in the canadian or australian patent office either.

from wiki:

In the United States, according to the United States Patent and Trademark Office, the expression "Patent Pending" as such does not protect an invention until the actual patent is published and/or issued: "A patentee who makes or sells patented articles, or a person who does so for or under the patentee is required to mark the articles with the word "Patent" and the number of the patent. The penalty for failure to mark is that the patentee may not recover damages from an infringer unless the infringer was duly notified of the infringement and continued to infringe after the notice. The marking of an article as patented when it is not in fact patented is against the law and subjects the offender to a penalty. Some persons mark articles sold with the terms "Patent Applied For" or "Patent Pending". These phrases have no legal effect, but only give information that an application for patent has been filed in the Patent and Trademark Office. The protection afforded by a patent does not start until the actual grant of the patent. False use of these phrases or their equivalent is prohibited". ^[5]

The use of the term "patent pending" or "patent applied for" is permitted so long as a patent application has actually been filed. If these terms are used when no patent application has been filed it is deemed as a deceptive act and a fine of up to $500 may be imposed for every such offense.^[6] Under the current interpretation of "offense", each mis-marked article constitutes an offense, which permits theoretical damages in the hundreds of millions of dollars for high-volume consumer goods.

[jesutton3]

I guess no one watched the video. It says clearly on the top of the Surfgate............."Patent pending"

[Chia]

I guess no one watched the video. It says clearly on the top of the Surfgate............."Patent pending"

...and according to wiki: "the expression "Patent Pending" as such does not protect an invention until the actual patent is published and/or issued:"....so build while you can.

[cwkoch]

Yes- Patent Pending means they have filed and probably been issued their Provisional Patent. That is the first step in getting the actual Utility Patent. Most get the Provisional first, becuase it's cheap, easy, and gives them a year of coverage until they can get all the paperwork in line to file the actual Utility Patent. The Provisional Patent is typically issued rather quickly, but the Utility Patent (the one where you're protected for 20 years, and have your patent number) takes a while for them to respond to and issue. Filing the provisional can be done on your own rather easily, but to file the Utility Patent, you'll probably have a patent attorney help you. There is also a patent search that they will need to do to be sure there are no other patents with the same claims as yours. The Utility Patent is the real deal, and takes time, and is expensive!

To everyone saying that there's no record of it yet.... Of course there's not!!! You're talking about a government agency here.... Do you really think they're that fast at getting this thing issued and record of it put up on their website???? You should see all the worthless paperwork that goes along with these!

I'm guessing they will have an air-tight patent locked up on this thing. I was told that they were close to releasing it for 2012 models, but waited until 2013 so they could be sure their patent was rock solid.

[cwkoch]

...and according to wiki: "the expression "Patent Pending" as such does not protect an invention until the actual patent is published and/or issued:"....so build while you can.

Wrong- Yes, it does protect it. Go read through the documents on the Patent Office website. The Provisional Patent will protect the idea/product from the day the Provisional Patent is iussed, or back to the first recorded sale of the product as long as it was less than 1 year ago.

Well, I guess you're right in some ways.... The words "Patent Pending" by themselves do not protect your product, you must have actually filed the Provisional Patent. You are not allowed to use the words "Patent Pending" unless the provisional paperwork has been filed.

[LiquidCourage]

Yes- Patent Pending means they have filed and probably been issued their Provisional Patent. That is the first step in getting the actual Utility Patent. Most get the Provisional first, becuase it's cheap, easy, and gives them a year of coverage until they can get all the paperwork in line to file the actual Utility Patent. The Provisional Patent is typically issued rather quickly, but the Utility Patent (the one where you're protected for 20 years, and have your patent number) takes a while for them to respond to and issue. Filing the provisional can be done on your own rather easily, but to file the Utility Patent, you'll probably have a patent attorney help you. There is also a patent search that they will need to do to be sure there are no other patents with the same claims as yours. The Utility Patent is the real deal, and takes time, and is expensive!

To everyone saying that there's no record of it yet.... Of course there's not!!! You're talking about a government agency here.... Do you really think they're that fast at getting this thing issued and record of it put up on their website???? You should see all the worthless paperwork that goes along with these!

I'm guessing they will have an air-tight patent locked up on this thing. I was told that they were close to releasing it for 2012 models, but waited until 2013 so they could be sure their patent was rock solid.

Very true- mine took 2+ years before it was published, 5 more and it is still not approved- +1 to government office comment!!

[BSUBU_Kris]

I have had clients that have literally spent multiple millions of dollars protecting against patent infringement. It is unvelievable how much time legal firms can rack up on this type of litigation. Great ideas should be rewarded so I am happy for Malibu as the more money they make the better boats we are going to see in the future. I like seeing companies rewarded for great innovation and am glad that Malibu has come up with this idea.

It does suck though that there is no word of a retrofit for older boats. If it really works as advertised they could easily produce a bracket that goes through both transom tie down eyes to secure a fin to each side of the boat. They could have a wiring kit and ram that could deploy the fin or just a manual arm going from the fin back to the bar going between the transom tie down eyes. They could add a speed wheel to the bottom of the bracket for auto deploy / retract of the fin. They could have a kit for every boat out there. Hopefully this is something coming.

[Levi900RR]

OK, letting the cat out of the bag... I'm currently working a deal with the company that makes the mounts... Here is the "A Kit" which mounts to the platform.

I am testing many fin designs, and yes, this one is a cut off old snowboard... don't tell Burton

Another

I'll grab some wave pics tomorrow morning

I am hoping to ice a deal with the mount company that allows me to sell one fin and one side "A Kit" for $199. The other side A kit will be about $79 bucks. Thinking the fin will be made out af aluminum once I get the design 100%

[sangleeisg]

Nice job Levi. Just the way I like it....Simple!!!!

[shawndoggy]

ram mounts! great call they are rock freakin solid (but never would have thought of that application).

[ajinid]

Nice work Levi. I would suggest placing the curved part of the snowboard outward, instead of inward like you have. This will deflect the wave better.

Question: Is there a way to retract the fin for slalom skiing without removing from the platform?

[Lance B. Johnson]

If you guys are following the other thread....

There's some concern about the manual design due to the negative affect it has on steering. Something to think about.

[newbie1000]

That looks fantastic. How does it perform? Any pics of the wake? I presume you remove the fin when not in use rather than retracting it? Well done.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2

[Levi900RR]

It comes off in like 30 seconds... I just turn the other way when picking someone up. My boat actually will turn the other way with it deployed. The wind came up fast this morning so we didn't get to surf.