Sur'Fin Would you want one?

[SkiZilla]

Just a comment for everone worried about ripping the transom off your boat. I'm not saying it would never happen. But when I was out on my boat a few weeks ago dreaming about this idea, we were surfing, I just put my hand in the water at the transom. I was able to push the water back with my hand alone. After that, I knew I wasn't dealing with a huge ammount of pressure. The key I found, was keeping the fin tucked slightly behind the side of the boat at the front, that way your not hooking the water coming off the boat behind the fin. Just continuing to deflect it.

I think you have nailed it down with this post, keep it to a deflection and the dynamic preausure generated by the water is quite modest. I couldn't stop myself from calculating it......based upon a top speed of about 11 mph (5 m/s) and an approximate 45 degree angle orientartion to the direction of travel I get a dynamic pressure of about 0.9 psi. So on a fin 8" x 16" you could expect to see about 115 lbs force. Pretty small and I personally wouldn'nt be worried about any damage to the transom.

Have fun and good luck!

Edited for grammer and spelling.....my mother would be so proud.

Edited August 17, 2012 by SkiZilla

[Levi900RR]

I think you have nailed it down with this post, keep it to a deflection and the dynamic preausure generated by the water is quite modest. I couldn't stop myself from calculating it......based upon a top speed of about 11 mph (5 m/s) and an approximate 45 degree angle orientartion to the direction of travel I get a dynamic pressure of about 0.9 psi. So on a fin 8" x 16" you could expect to see about 115 lbs force. Pretty small and I personally wouldn'nt be worried about any damage to the transom.

Have fun and good luck!

Edited for grammer and spelling.....my mother would be so proud.

BOOM, Don't sweat your platform.

[Ndawg12]

I've been telling people for a month now that there isn't that much force. Thanks for calculating it But holding a board in the water with your hands DOES NOT WORK , the pressure is not constant and it will "flutter". That was my first test, all it told me was that there isn't much force but not able to create any kind of wave.

Levi, my hats off to you. Do what you want, share as much or as little inforamtion that you want and when you want to. I understand your position...

[Nitrousbird]

Bottom line is you aren't going to retire off of this idea or quit your job, but you will make some extra bank for sure. You would have to take it several steps further to make it into a business (marketing to other makes of boats, accessories to go along with it, etc.).

The other thing is a DIY person may want to create their own, but having the bracket designed/machined is the pain in the butt part. When someone already has one machined and for sale, most DIY people aren't going to invest their time/effort to design their own when they can just buy one that does exactly what they want, as they will find that one-off unit will cost probably about as much and their time could be served better otherwise.

[skibreeze]

Most people on here would pay for a retrofit kit that is functional, but most importantly, looks professionally done. I hate the "aftermarket" look. I don't want something jury rigged to my boat.

[shawndoggy]

The risk of defending a patent infringement suit vs. the small reward of making a few bucks from selling these probably doesn't make this worth it for you, IMHO.

If boat hulls can receive IP protection, I don't see why this idea cannot.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but doing this as a shade tree thing is not going to be the basis for your retirement, I don't think.

[Levi900RR]

Cool thing about mine is it will work on any boat that has a swim platform. No different mounts required. I am actually going to test it on my Neighbor's X Star next weekend.

[Levi900RR]

Most people on here would pay for a retrofit kit that is functional, but most importantly, looks professionally done. I hate the "aftermarket" look. I don't want something jury rigged to my boat.

My mounts look sweet, need to pretty up the fin a bit before I let the cat out.

[gorilla]

I'm in. I can build this myself, but as said before, why? Paying someone to build it has it's benefits, like the custom brackets. I wouldn't be able to build those without a lot of trial and error. Plus supporting someone from here is just a "nice" thing to do.

[shawndoggy]

Levi what are you doing to protect your IP if anything?

What will keep a machine shop or Larry at Fresh Air Exhaust from mass producing your design?

[Levi900RR]

Levi what are you doing to protect your IP if anything?

What will keep a machine shop or Larry at Fresh Air Exhaust from mass producing your design?

This is the type of stuff I'm thinking about, and the reason I don't want to just stick pictures on the internet. Would that hurt me in the long run? I have no idea, but its a lot easier to NOT post pics and details than it is trying to get them all back later...

Like I said earlier in the thread. I was just testing the waters to see if a product like this would be desirable to the publilc, and to feel out a price point to see if it could be profitable.

[shawndoggy]

IMHO you are going to need at least $100K in your legal fees warchest for:

1. filing your own patent application

2. defending against infringement suit by Malibu

3. suing the 30 other guys around the country who are going to do the same thing.

[Michigan boarder]

Bring on the Shark Tank!

[SkiZilla]

I work for a firm that designs (my job) and produces custom automated and robotic equipment. We also dable in prototype development as well. I have on average 15-20 "inventors" in my office every year looking for help getting their idea to the next step. Sometimes this nvolves complete design based on their ideas or just a simple refinement and drawings production. A small fraction of these ideas succeed......and from what I have observed its not always a function of the quality of the idea but rather the clients skill set at marketing and understanding of the buisness they are trying to get into.

A general nondisclosure and non competition argrement will protect you from those you hire (machine shops, design firms, marketing firms) from walking with your idea. The hard one is the guy across the street peeking over the fence. That's what the patent office is for......and keep in mind you need more than just a patent to protect you.....you need the money and resources to defend it.

If you intend to try and make a buck at this (and I believe the market is there) I would spend some energy in getting a copy of Malibu's patent and see what you are up against. Guarantee there are teams of people at Mastercraft and Correctcraft trying to find the work around right now.

As said before I wish you luck and am curious to see what you have come up with. I am going to build my own, have easy access to a full machine shop and can't help but play with this. I however have no interest in trying to make a bvyuisness out of it!

[Ronnie]

IMHO you are going to need at least $100K in your legal fees warchest for:

1. filing your own patent application

2. defending against infringement suit by Malibu

3. suing the 30 other guys around the country who are going to do the same thing.

Plus your Liability Insurance. First person that blames an injury on it will clean you out.

[LS-One]

You could always direct your energy into developing the World's first storage battery that stores AC power. You will be stupid rich.

[srintx]

You could always direct your energy into developing the World's first storage battery that stores AC power. You will be stupid rich.

and get money from the government!

[cwkoch]

I don't think I'd want to screw around selling an aftermarket kit that is a knock-off of the Malibu Surf Gate. I'm sure their patent is rock solid on this. No, it's not just a trademark on the name, it's a utility patent on the product, and the idea of the product, and what it does. Sure, trim tabs have been around for a long time, but I'm guessing somewhere in Malibu's description of their invention, they probably even mention trim tabs, mounted vertically. They're protecting their idea, and what it accomplishes, not just a name.

Anyone that wants to DIY, and build your own kit, for your own boat, you're not going to get sued by Malibu. But, I'm guessing anyone who builds, markets, and sells a kit anything like Surf Gate, be it manual or electric/hydraulic, you're going to have a lawsuit on your hands.

[msuwaterski]

pm me your e-mail and I'll send you a prepaid fedex label....

I'll volunteer my '01 wake hull for your data collection efforts. I'm going to Cumberland in 3 weeks with a group of buddies and could get lots of video for you.

[jbird]

Oh for cryin out loud post up the pictures of this contraption! Not to bust your bubble but It is not like you have something that has not already been thought of and more than likely protected by Malibu's patent. There will be 10 more variations of homade Surfgates by the end of the weekend so you might as well show yours before someone else posts a similar version. Just my .02

[WaterJunkie]

All this suspense is killing me! I'll share what I have in mind....I just need to take a few measurements off the boat this weekend before I start fabrication of my prototype. I'm going to try a simple clamp to the swim platform bracket and an aluminium fin that I can mount and adjust by moving a few pins around.

Adam Gate 2 by FlickFest, on Flickr

Adam Gate 1 by FlickFest, on Flickr

Adam Gate 3 by FlickFest, on Flickr

Hopefully there is enough summer left to see if it works!

I think there is plently of interest in this sort of thing, I personally would have no desire to market or manufacture anything but it sure is fun to tinker!

Nice work.. thanks for sharing and I have a couple ideas to share. There is normally a folding support under many long tables with folding legs. The single folding support hinges in the center. A design like this could allow the tab to be folded in far enough in a stowed position to leave it attached. The other thought would be to use a telescoping support very similar to one of the short telescoping legs on my bimini top. Either one of these might allow for a wider adjustment range if needed and also the ability to have a "stowed" position. What do you think?

[Chia]

Maybe i am missing something here, but why not try a power wedge actuator (makes the gate adjustable), a couple of hinges and a piece of 1/2 inch cutting board material and voila.

[Tao of Wake]

Maybe i am missing something here, but why not try a power wedge actuator (makes the gate adjustable), a couple of hinges and a piece of 1/2 inch cutting board material and voila.

I've done just about exactly that, but I used a Lenco trim tab kit and cutting boards: http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/39022-surf-gate/page__st__20

There is something just not right, though. Unfortunately, the next time I can mess around with it is Labor Day weekend. I am first going to measure a Surf Gate boat (at my dealer) to get the dimensions and mounting location. I am most interested in how far in the gate is when stowed. I think the surf side gate (stowed) with my design is interfering with the wake somehow. Just looking at the Surf Gate on the VLX, I can see that the gate is angled inward from top to bottom (top of gate further from the center of the boat than bottom of gate). Mine is too, but not as much. Also, because the swim platform on the '13 is angled inward and there is the cutout for the SG, this may be one of the keys to the design. That is, getting the gate inward more when stowed so that it does not affect the wake.

[Chia]

I've done just about exactly that, but I used a Lenco trim tab kit and cutting boards: http://www.themalibu...te/page__st__20

There is something just not right, though. Unfortunately, the next time I can mess around with it is Labor Day weekend. I am first going to measure a Surf Gate boat (at my dealer) to get the dimensions and mounting location. I am most interested in how far in the gate is when stowed. I think the surf side gate (stowed) with my design is interfering with the wake somehow. Just looking at the Surf Gate on the VLX, I can see that the gate is angled inward from top to bottom (top of gate further from the center of the boat than bottom of gate). Mine is too, but not as much. Also, because the swim platform on the '13 is angled inward and there is the cutout for the SG, this may be one of the keys to the design. That is, getting the gate inward more when stowed so that it does not affect the wake.

pictures with a ruler held up would be nice. i think it is pretty clear the swim platform will have to be modified.

[ajinid]

Levi,

How long do you anticipate it will be before testing or selling the surf fin?

Also, does it work on a Teak deck?