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wakeboarder3780

Trouble with surf wake on 23 LSV

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wakeboarder3780

Hey guys I'm having a little trouble getting the surf wake usable. A quick background, it's an 06 wakesetter 23 LSV, I had a 750lb bag in the rear compartment last year. The wake was rideable but nothing to write home about. I didn't like how close my riders were to the swim platform and wanted to make a longer bigger wave for this purpose.

This year I've changed two variables. I've changed from the 750lb bag to an 1100 lb bag in the rear. I've also changed from the acme 537 prop to the acme 1235. Honestly it seems like the wake is somehow now worse and I'm not sure why.

Here is a picture of how it looked last time we went out:

551451_194292517353700_100003188595112_307304_937914979_n.jpg

As you can tell it's not a very tall wave and it's washy. Below are the stats for the setup:

Gas Tank - Full

MLS Bow- Full

MLS Center - Full

MLS Rear Left - Full

MLS Rear Right - Empty

Additional 1100 bag in rear left compartment - Full

Malibu Floating Wedge: Engaged (down/floating/whatever)

Hull: V25 Wake (not diamond)

115 lb driver in driver seat

About 265 lbs worth of passengers on left side.

A 45lb golden retriever at a random point in the boat :)

What we have tried:

A) Varying speed from 9 - 15 going up one mile per hour at a time. Between 10 and 11 seemed the most usable. Anything slower and it was all wash, anything faster and the wave would just get smaller and not really clean up (there always seemed to be wash)

B) Varying the people ballast. Although there wasn't much weight there we did try moving people from the left rear to the left bow and see if it made a difference. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Is the posted wake picture normal for having the 1100 lb bag? Do I have anything wrong with my setup? Hoping some surfers can chime in here. Other variables I plan on trying next time out is actually going without the wedge, emptying some of the center to try to get more lean, or emptying the bow, my only option left is not filling the 1100 lb bag but that frustrates me because I paid a fair amount of cash to upgrade my surf wake this season and if I revert back to only filling it to about 750 I don't see the point. I heard a lot of people saying the 1100 lb bags helped a lot. I've been out surfing twice and honestly it seems to be worse.

Help!

Edited by wakeboarder3780

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85 Barefoot
Hey guys I'm having a little trouble getting the surf wake usable. A quick background, it's an 06 wakesetter 23 LSV, I had a 750lb bag in the rear compartment last year. The wake was rideable but nothing to write home about. I didn't like how close my riders were to the swim platform and wanted to make a longer bigger wave for this purpose. This year I've changed two variables. I've changed from the 750lb bag to an 1100 lb bag in the rear. I've also changed from the acme 537 prop to the acme 1235. Honestly it seems like the wake is somehow now worse and I'm not sure why. Here is a picture of how it looked last time we went out: 551451_194292517353700_100003188595112_307304_937914979_n.jpg As you can tell it's not a very tall wave and it's washy. Below are the stats for the setup: Gas Tank - Full MLS Bow- Full MLS Center - Full MLS Rear Left - Full MLS Rear Right - Empty Additional 1100 bag in rear left compartment - Full Malibu floating wedge in down position 115 lb driver in driver seat About 265 lbs worth of passengers on left side. A 45lb golden retriever at a random point in the boat :) What we have tried: A) Varying speed from 9 - 15 going up one mile per hour at a time. Between 10 and 11 seemed the most usable. Anything slower and it was all wash, anything faster and the wave would just get smaller and not really clean up (there always seemed to be wash) B) Varying the people ballast. Although there wasn't much weight there we did try moving people from the left rear to the left bow and see if it made a difference. Didn't seem to make much of a difference. Is the posted wake picture normal for having the 1100 lb bag? Do I have anything wrong with my setup? Hoping some surfers can chime in here. Other variables I plan on trying next time out is actually going without the wedge, emptying some of the center to try to get more lean, or emptying the bow, my only option left is not filling the 1100 lb bag but that frustrates me because I paid a fair amount of cash to upgrade my surf wake this season and if I revert back to only filling it to about 750 I don't see the point. I heard a lot of people saying the 1100 lb bags helped a lot. I've been out surfing twice and honestly it seems to be worse. Help!

How fast was that picture? About 12? I'd slow down to get some size and empty bow to start. Leave center ballast. Going 11 or 12 or up not advisable until you have a lot of weight. Until then, slower the better for wake size.

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wakeboarder3780

That picture would be between 10 and 11, I don't know for sure because I had my wife vary his speed between 10 and 11 to see if we could clean it up. It was really bothering me that I couldn't get a curl and it was all wash. I was wondering if it was too much weight in the back and not enough up front to match it. I'll try as you suggest as well.

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Ronnie

Our surf wake through the last 5-6 years on several 23 LSV's;

Bow full

Port locker full

Center full

750 or 1100 in Port locker

seat bottom sac under port seat

We surf all day long with just a driver and surfer, more people makes it better of coarse.

Power wedge all the way down or two clicks up. I like it down but two clicks up will make it taller.

10.5 to 11 mph (GPS verified) I've seen more people have trouble with wakes because they were not actually going the speed their speedo says they are. It's best if you can't verify your speed to not even look at the speedo. Start slow enough to build a starting wave and add speed until you get the wave to start flattening out. Then back off the speed until you get the wave you are looking for.

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wakeboarder3780

So the only difference between you and I is that seat bottom sac, how much weight is that rated for? We did the whole speed test thing, my whole set was just screwing around with speed and we found what you're saying between 10 and 11 is the sweet spot. This makes me feel like we weren't off base. Next time I'll start even lower on speed or see if there is a free app for my iphone that I can gps speed test with.

Edit: Actually I don't need to start slower, I remember what the wake was like at 9, all wash, terrible terrible amounts of wash.

Edited by wakeboarder3780

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Malibuzer

I had a similar issue with my VTX. Is your platform digging in with the 1100 lb sack full. What we found is that the platform was actually digging in hard enough to actually tilt the boat back to level. Something else to consider. Also go ahead and try it without the wedge. On the 2012 I am going to have some blocks installed under the platform to lift it up a few inches to help keep it from interfering.

Edited by Malibuzer

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shawndoggy

do you have a spare 400 sack that you could put on the port side seats? Or a few fat friends? I'd bet it gets way better if you just get the boat listed over a little bit more.

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85 Barefoot

Try this next time out, rather than filling 1100 sac, use water and not air. :biggrin:

I'm a little baffled by that picture, I still think it looks too fast, which is exascerbated by (potentially), too much bow weight. I'd try to get a large steep wake first with rear-biased weight and then worry about lengthening face with more bow weight.

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DAC

How deep is the water? 25 feet or more really makes a big difference.

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Wake My Day

Hey Wakeboard 3780:

I also have a 2006 23 lsv, and we are very happy with the surf wake. We fill exactly the same as you; front, center and passenger rear full, I have upgraded to the 1100 in the rear and I fill that but I don't think it's quite full. I have invested in some small under the seat bags that probably give me an additional 400 pounds that run up to the observers seat area. I usually run around 10.6 mph on my new GPS plug in module. We have the power wedge and we keep it all the way down or don't engage it at all for surfing. With three to four people in the boat, our wave is at least hip height.

post-15091-0-35011800-1333408312_thumb.j

post-15091-0-70659900-1333408333_thumb.j

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ryangb

Hey guys I'm having a little trouble getting the surf wake usable. A quick background, it's an 06 wakesetter 23 LSV, I had a 750lb bag in the rear compartment last year. The wake was rideable but nothing to write home about. I didn't like how close my riders were to the swim platform and wanted to make a longer bigger wave for this purpose.

This year I've changed two variables. I've changed from the 750lb bag to an 1100 lb bag in the rear. I've also changed from the acme 537 prop to the acme 1235. Honestly it seems like the wake is somehow now worse and I'm not sure why.

Here is a picture of how it looked last time we went out:

551451_194292517353700_100003188595112_307304_937914979_n.jpg

As you can tell it's not a very tall wave and it's washy. Below are the stats for the setup:

Gas Tank - Full

MLS Bow- Full

MLS Center - Full

MLS Rear Left - Full

MLS Rear Right - Empty

Additional 1100 bag in rear left compartment - Full

Malibu floating wedge in down position

115 lb driver in driver seat

About 265 lbs worth of passengers on left side.

A 45lb golden retriever at a random point in the boat :)

What we have tried:

A) Varying speed from 9 - 15 going up one mile per hour at a time. Between 10 and 11 seemed the most usable. Anything slower and it was all wash, anything faster and the wave would just get smaller and not really clean up (there always seemed to be wash)

B) Varying the people ballast. Although there wasn't much weight there we did try moving people from the left rear to the left bow and see if it made a difference. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Is the posted wake picture normal for having the 1100 lb bag? Do I have anything wrong with my setup? Hoping some surfers can chime in here. Other variables I plan on trying next time out is actually going without the wedge, emptying some of the center to try to get more lean, or emptying the bow, my only option left is not filling the 1100 lb bag but that frustrates me because I paid a fair amount of cash to upgrade my surf wake this season and if I revert back to only filling it to about 750 I don't see the point. I heard a lot of people saying the 1100 lb bags helped a lot. I've been out surfing twice and honestly it seems to be worse.

Help!

You need more weight. Do you still have your 750? I would put a 750 on the seat in front of the locker, and a 370 tube sack under your seat towards the front. 23's take a a lot of weight to get a good list.

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wakeboarder3780

Good things to check folks.

The list of things I have to try/check next time so far is:

1) Check to see if the swim platform is digging into the water preventing it from listing (learned a new word today).

2) Again try different speeds this time trying super slow (I think I might have them take a video and I'll post all the different speeds on this thread).

3) Empty the MLS bow to get more rear biased weight.

4) Try having the wedge up versus wedge down.

Sad part is if I need more list I'm going to have to do something with my gas vent line. When I was riding that thing looked too close to the water line for comfort as it was. I think painters tape is going to have to be the poor mans solution for now :D

Edit: I do not still have the 750's and I don't want to pile bags all over the floor or seats. I'm hopeful that I don't have to add even more bags especially under the port side seats. Those are the only seats left that I get any storage. If I put bags under there I'd have no place to put my ropes / wind dam, life jackets, etc. I don't know how you guys do it.

Edited by wakeboarder3780

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shawndoggy

Try it with a 750 on the seats once for grins. You might be surprised. If nothing else you'll eliminate that as the issue.

Edited by shawndoggy

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wakeboarder3780

Wake my day, that wake is wonderful, I would love to have that. It sounds like we have such a similar setup. I guess the thing you have going for you is 3-4 people. I had 3 very small people in the boat. You probably had 4 normal sized people in the boat + that extra 400. I can't wait until I can get back out and play with it some more. I really hope I can make it better. Right now it flat out sucks (especially compared to what I see you can do)

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wakeboarder3780

Try it with a 750 on the seats once for grins. You might be surprised. If nothing else you'll eliminate that as the issue.

I can't they were sold to another forum member. I can't even use it for trouble shooting :(

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jk13

I think DAC hit it with the water depth issue. From what I recall that lake is only 10-12 feet deep at most. I don't surf, but have read enough to know that it matters.

Not an easy solution to find a different lake around here, but I think it would help.

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85 Barefoot

While depth certainly helps, its not essential. My lake is generally less than 10 feet and we have no prob surfing a bone stock 21 lsv. I think there are weight placement and setup issues.

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like a bu

Do you know which hull you have? Wake or Diamond? Im not an exgpert, but I have heard it takes more wt to sink the diamond to get the right wake?

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wakeboarder3780

This is a wake hull, not diamond (I have now added this to my first post for stats). JK, when I got out next I'll try the deeper parts further south. There are a couple areas that reach 25' or so. I can see if that makes a difference at all. That being said I can guarantee you this, last year I surfed in the same spot and had much better results with less weight in the rear. Part of me wants to say I have too much weight in the back but that just sounds silly to me.

The main thing I don't understand is why there SO MUCH wash. I will take a video and show you what I mean, there was never a point where I could clean the wake up to have a lip, it was all just crappy crappy wash. More info to come folks, keep the info rolling!

Edited by wakeboarder3780

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WakesetterE

I think you are going faster than you may realize. I couldn't tell if you are using a gps or not. If you are using a gps, then my guess in wrong. Before i got Perfect Pass it was impossible to determine speed by the pickup tube speedo. When the boat leans to one side that sometimes affect accuracy of the speedo from the wash created. Grab a gps and test the speed and I bet you find you were going 12-13 mph in that photo. I often surf in a lake that is12' with no issues. If the speed isn't too high, I would remove some bow weight, as bow weight typically elongates and flattens the wave.

Also notice in the photo shown of the "good" wave how much further his boat is leaning than yours....

Edited by WakesetterE

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srintx

do you have a spare 400 sack that you could put on the port side seats? :surprised:Or a few fat friends? :surprised: I'd bet it gets way better if you just get the boat listed over a little bit more.

That's FUNNY!

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Wake My Day

Hey Wakeboard 3780: I was hesitant to give up my storage space as well, but after trying several setup's it was the only way to get the wave size I wanted. I have put two bags under these seats. They start about 12 inches in front of the 1100lb bag and go almost to the widest point of the observers seat. It's more than likely i550lbs in total. I have to guess bescause neither bag is completely full. It makes a huge difference on wave height. I have fooled around with a 400 sac in the bow area to lengthen my wave pocket, but the boat is too nose heavy. Our 23 lsv's are gorgous big pigs and they need to be sunk to get a fabulouse wave. I believe that the VLX model is easier to make surf than our's just because you don't have to sink that model as much to achieve a great wave. As far as gear I just shove everything into the front storage and into the rear right when surfing. I drain the bags and return ropes and fenders to under the seats when we are boarding and just hanging. A little bit of work, but It's worth it. I have plumbed two new through hull holes and valves, two new Johnston pumps and several directional valves to make my system quick and easily to use. No over the side pump for my crew. We ran this way for two seasons and what a relief to have a proper setup. Good luck with dialing it in.

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wakeboarder3780

This is the first time I've been back out. Here's what we tried:

1) We gps verified our speed so we know our speedo is accurate

2) Emptied the bow which seemed to help a bit.

3) Monitored the rear bag a little more and it did seem that we could get it fuller this time around just by repositioning the bag a bit.

4) I verified that the swim deck wasn't digging in the water. It was touching the water and cutting a bit but it was really minor. Hard to explain but I can guarantee at this point it wasn't an issue.

5) Tried with the wedge up and down. *Noticeably* better with the wedge down.

I have some pop bags and some lead that I will try next time just to see how it affects the surf wave. I am considering putting 200lbs on each side under the seats furthest rearward. When we go surfing I will take the 200lbs from the starboard side and put it on the port side. This well get us a net 400lbs extra weight as far back as we can get it. If that isn't enough, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and plumb a bag under the port side seat which I'm really not too excited about doing as I can't imagine finding room for a throughull to support another pump. It's quite crowded in there already.

Sure wish we had a bigger crew than 3 people every day. Every time i ride there are 2 people in the boat. If I could just get about 5 or 6 people out there the wake would become phenomenal, I'm sure of it.

Any other ideas? Oh and we did another speed run through, 10.4 was the best for us. Here is a pic at that speed.

image.jpg?t=1334286890

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jtrovato

You need to just bite the bullet and put more weight on the surf side. I can tell from the picture that the boat isn't leaned over that much. If you put another 500 lbs under the seat, or even on top of the seat on the surf side you'll see a big difference.

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Chia

is your rub rail below the water line? if not, add more weight.

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