Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

3 Boats For Questions And Opinions


jeepdude2

which boat  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Which boat

    • Axis A20
      21
    • Tige 22i
      3
    • MB b52
      12


Recommended Posts

I would throw MSRP out the window for MB. Their boats don't come close to approaching MSRP when you add options. The one at my local dealer has a sticker of 58k and that is with the cavitation plate and metallic gel coat which are Bout 2k total in options. I bet you could get it for 54-55k. Like I said earlier the same dealer has an A20 for 53k and that was boat show pricing. The MB comes with so many standard features you are going to get a lot more boat than a stripped down A20. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing Axis we own an A22. It just seems like Axis is quickly moving away from their original core message of an affordable wakeboarding boat. I have demoed an MB F21 and I drove/ rode behind our Axis back to back with an MB 23 TWB. They are quite different.

Edit: I will say the A20 for 53k had quite a few options. A stripped down one might be much closer to 40k.

They're not leaving their core, its just supply and demand. Axis production is and has been at max capacity.

Link to comment

OK 85 you made me look. I went to "build your own" on the axis site. It looks like you'd need to choose these options for an apples to apples boat comparison to a "base" mb (wedge aside):

bimini

flip up bolster seat

pop up cleats

boat cover

stereo pack 1 (?)

wedge (not standard on axis website, but probably typically optioned?)

depth finder

tower mirror bracket

two swivel racks

ski pylon

stainless cupholders

tandem axle trailer

Link to comment

That's cool, I was just basing off your comment of:

"In the real world, I think the "base" 21' MBs are in the $50k-ish range. That would inlcude a bimini, stargazer perfect pass, six speakers and a sub. The options can add up quickly -- wake plate is a $1500ish upgrade, the 409 motor is another $4kish, and other options are as expected (heater, shower, LED lighting, tower speakers, etc. etc.)."

I took from that that was a list of what was "standard" on MB, guess not. I was just comparing a "base" exemplar of both and saying a base A20 doesnt get to 50. A decently optioned A22 certainly can get up there. Ask me how I know :lol:

No doubt, an Axis can get optioned out to a minimum or to the extreme with a huge price swing for options. I thought I was comparing apples to apples, apparently not.

Link to comment

I'm kind of jumping in in the middle here, but I would choose the MB if it were me. IMO the gravity fill (purevert) ballast is a huge win. I know you feel that it provides you less granularity but I am seriously skeptical that would be true when actually using the boat.

My biggest question would be if the MB loaded, is that enough ballast to make you happy long term. The one benefit I'll admit for pump system is it makes it easy to add on ballast. I guess I'd have to try them both, but I've always been a little sweet on MB for thinking outside the box. To me that makes their brand worth looking into big time. It's easy for a company to sit back and cash in on brand, it's a lot better for the consumer if a company is making strides in adding features that are powerful to riders.

Bottom line, I like the speed of gravity fill, but I would need to know that when i fill up the gravity fed boats that the wake scares me and I think I'll never want to ride a wake that big. At that point in time I know I can grow with the boat.

Link to comment

That's cool, I was just basing off your comment of:

"In the real world, I think the "base" 21' MBs are in the $50k-ish range. That would inlcude a bimini, stargazer perfect pass, six speakers and a sub. The options can add up quickly -- wake plate is a $1500ish upgrade, the 409 motor is another $4kish, and other options are as expected (heater, shower, LED lighting, tower speakers, etc. etc.)."

I took from that that was a list of what was "standard" on MB, guess not. I was just comparing a "base" exemplar of both and saying a base A20 doesnt get to 50. A decently optioned A22 certainly can get up there. Ask me how I know :lol:

No doubt, an Axis can get optioned out to a minimum or to the extreme with a huge price swing for options. I thought I was comparing apples to apples, apparently not.

another couple of apples-2-oranges observations.... it appears that the base axis motor does not have knock sensors (based on the fact that knock sensors aren't mentioned on the indmar site describing the motor, but they are noted for the malibu monsoon). The base MB motor is the PCM EX343, which has cats, knock sensors, and a 100a alternator. Also, the MB warranty is three years whereas the axis warranty is only one on the boat / three on the drivetrain.

All that said, everything I've seen about the axis has been relatively favorable. One pretty significant difference between the two is the speed at which the wake will clean up. It's hard to get a clean wake on an MB below 21, but I've seen pics of a clean axis wake down to 17. For teaching newbs and kids, that could be a huge deal.

For us, the ability to fill and drain ballast very quickly was a really big deal, but for others it might not be. Neither boat is perfect and each have their trade-offs. Intangible tie breakers like dealer support and the warm fuzzy feeling you get when looking at one or the other have real value when comparing these boats.

Link to comment

another couple of apples-2-oranges observations.... it appears that the base axis motor does not have knock sensors (based on the fact that knock sensors aren't mentioned on the indmar site describing the motor, but they are noted for the malibu monsoon). The base MB motor is the PCM EX343, which has cats, knock sensors, and a 100a alternator. Also, the MB warranty is three years whereas the axis warranty is only one on the boat / three on the drivetrain.

All that said, everything I've seen about the axis has been relatively favorable. One pretty significant difference between the two is the speed at which the wake will clean up. It's hard to get a clean wake on an MB below 21, but I've seen pics of a clean axis wake down to 17. For teaching newbs and kids, that could be a huge deal.

For us, the ability to fill and drain ballast very quickly was a really big deal, but for others it might not be. Neither boat is perfect and each have their trade-offs. Intangible tie breakers like dealer support and the warm fuzzy feeling you get when looking at one or the other have real value when comparing these boats.

They're not noted on the LS3 either. Pretty safe to assume the LS3 both have knock sensors.

From all I'm hearing here MB sounds like they're great boats not to mention value. I was just trying to draw some pricing comparisons, thats all and clarifying that an A20 comes in way less than 50 with mild options.

Link to comment

They're not noted on the LS3 either. Pretty safe to assume the LS3 both have knock sensors.

From all I'm hearing here MB sounds like they're great boats not to mention value. I was just trying to draw some pricing comparisons, thats all and clarifying that an A20 comes in way less than 50 with mild options.

Yes, I'm making some assumptions on the knock sensors (and I could be wrong!!!). Since we know the LCR motor malibu uses does not have knock sensors, it would surprise me that Axis would use an upgraded motor over the malibu base motor but who knows? Also axis shows cats as an option but I thought all boats had to have cats beginning with the 2011 model year?

LOL at the mid 40s pricepoint the best value going right now is YOUR 247.... I can't believe it hasn't been snapped up yet.

Link to comment

Yes, I'm making some assumptions on the knock sensors (and I could be wrong!!!). Since we know the LCR motor malibu uses does not have knock sensors, it would surprise me that Axis would use an upgraded motor over the malibu base motor but who knows? Also axis shows cats as an option but I thought all boats had to have cats beginning with the 2011 model year?

LOL at the mid 40s pricepoint the best value going right now is YOUR 247.... I can't believe it hasn't been snapped up yet.

I hear you, and I'm not sure. LCR not available anymore tho. My 335 has cats.

Actually, fellow TMC'er arrives tomorrow...after he beat me up some more on price...he getting bargain of the decade. I'll let him post up if he wants, I don't want to spoil it. :biggrin: All are happy in the end, except my son.

Link to comment

another couple of apples-2-oranges observations.... it appears that the base axis motor does not have knock sensors (based on the fact that knock sensors aren't mentioned on the indmar site describing the motor, but they are noted for the malibu monsoon). The base MB motor is the PCM EX343, which has cats, knock sensors, and a 100a alternator. Also, the MB warranty is three years whereas the axis warranty is only one on the boat / three on the drivetrain.

All that said, everything I've seen about the axis has been relatively favorable. One pretty significant difference between the two is the speed at which the wake will clean up. It's hard to get a clean wake on an MB below 21, but I've seen pics of a clean axis wake down to 17. For teaching newbs and kids, that could be a huge deal.

For us, the ability to fill and drain ballast very quickly was a really big deal, but for others it might not be. Neither boat is perfect and each have their trade-offs. Intangible tie breakers like dealer support and the warm fuzzy feeling you get when looking at one or the other have real value when comparing these boats.

Shawn,

I looked them all over and talked on the phone with both dealers this morning.

you are right, both have distinct advantages and disadvantages.

to be honest, as I have said before, i like the look of the wide body and the dealer.

the slower speed on the axis would be nice as we tend to ride shorter lines & slower speeds after watching people like me blow knees out.

for that reason we keep doing more and more surfing. how do you like your MB's surf wake?

I like the Axis for Two reasons.

price point and the fact I will not have to upgrade my lift.

with the mb coming in dry at 3900 and only have a 4000 lb lift, i know i would have to upgrade for my own sanity.

At least I've eliminated one boat thanks to you guys.

Link to comment

we like the surf wake. We only surf with stock ballast. Unlike our vride, the boat requires some weight on the non-surf side. Basically we sink it as much as possible while still getting a little list. It doesn't need to be tipped all the way over to get surfable. There are definitely people who are weighting on top of factory ballast to get a bigger wave (both sides full plus sacks on surf side). We haven't gone there because it's more important to be able to switch disciplines for us than get the biggest possible wave. <---- all of that applies to the twb23, I have no first hand knowledge of the 21. Hopefully wakemitch chimes in because I saw a thread on wakeworld where he said he surfed a 21'er a lot, and they had it dialed.

This vid is stock ballast only and just my wife and me in the boat (300lbs total). I was trying to go as fast as I could (I think I was up to almost 14mph by the end) to "drop" my son, so he was riding pretty far up on the platform, but you can see where he gets back pretty far about a minute in. You can also see that there's a bit of propwash at the lip. I think the wakeplate might prevent that. We don't have the plate.

And a pic of me with 4 people (600 lbs) in the boat and stock ballast:

c0caf604.jpg

Link to comment

I loved my A20 this past season. I had a 2010 Vride the year prior and I have no complaints going from the Malibu to the Axis. My A20 is for sale right now super duper loaded. You should take a look at it and maybe we can make a deal. I would also be more than happy to take you and your family out on it for a day if that would interest you as well. PM me if your interested.

Link to comment

All that said, everything I've seen about the axis has been relatively favorable. One pretty significant difference between the two is the speed at which the wake will clean up. It's hard to get a clean wake on an MB below 21, but I've seen pics of a clean axis wake down to 17. For teaching newbs and kids, that could be a huge deal.

For us, the ability to fill and drain ballast very quickly was a really big deal, but for others it might not be. Neither boat is perfect and each have their trade-offs. Intangible tie breakers like dealer support and the warm fuzzy feeling you get when looking at one or the other have real value when comparing these boats.

MB boats are very nice, its obvious why this brand has been making great progress the last few years! Both brands have their advantages and disadvantages. My dealer had MB and Axis at the time I purchased a new boat. There were a few reasons that I went with Axis at the time and would still go that direction. The clean wake @ 16 or 17 was a big deal... we have kids and very advance riders riding the same day. It is so easy to scale the wake on this boat.

Edited by elc
Link to comment

LOL at the mid 40s pricepoint the best value going right now is YOUR 247.... I can't believe it hasn't been snapped up yet.

Not to hijack, but it makes me wish I was in the market all over again.

WInter buyers are so freaking finicky, that I would hate to be in the market trying to sell like I was last year with my X45.

Link to comment

I've spent a fair bit of time behind the MB and the Axis - I have a few thoughts about the Tige.

MB - they are heavy - the wake is awesome!!! surfing and boarding - it doesn't get much better right out of the box. not certain I've ever seen one plane out...

Tige - there's one on our lake (not certain what model) it's super loud - not sure why but that thing make a great deal of noise

Axis- have spent a considerable amount of time behind a A20 - Loved it - both surfing and wakeboarding - a basic no frills boat with the right stuff at a reasonable price.

me, I would go Axis, - black & green and spend a bit on the tower tunes....

just curious - any Epic's at the show?

Edited by FlatH20
Link to comment

I've spent a fair bit of time behind the MB and the Axis - I have a few thoughts about the Tige.

MB - they are heavy - the wake is awesome!!! surfing and boarding - it doesn't get much better right out of the box. not certain I've ever seen one plane out...

Tige - there's one on our lake (not certain what model) it's super loud - not sure why but that thing make a great deal of noise

Axis- have spent a considerable amount of time behind a A20 - Loved it - both surfing and wakeboarding - a basic no frills boat with the right stuff at a reasonable price.

me, I would go Axis, - black & green and spend a bit on the tower tunes....

just curious - any Epic's at the show?

I've done the math and if i pull the trigger it will be the MB. It was easily the biggest bang for the buck.

The axis was a nice boat, but once it was optioned out it costed just as much as the MB.

No Epic's and to be honest, it was the boat i liked most after all my research, but if i had to have it serviced it would be a 16 hour drive to minnesota.

Link to comment
  • 3 months later...

So guys,

Sorry, for the Resurrection of my old thread, but i thought it appropriate.

I have officially sold my Malibu and pulled the trigger on an Epic 21V.

I have to say I am pumped and i was very impressed with the boat.

I test drove all of the boats above, plus a Moomba Mojo and the epic was by far my favorite.

I will be sure to post pictures when I receive it next week.

(Although no longer a malibu owner, i feel this is one of the best communities on the internet and will be continue to contribute where I can.)

here is the boat invoice list.

blue hull/white top.

polished tower

15 speaker wet sounds audio

bimini

heater

330 black scorpion small block with walthers V drive

Sea Deck

GPS cruise with launch control

LED lighting

ez loader trailer

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...