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MichLivin

Tower Speakers For 2011 Lsv - Need Some Feedback

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MichLivin

I purchased a 2011 LSV last year with 4 (Alpha II) tower speakers and the standard RF amp. I was not that impressed with the sound when I was wakeboarding, so I talked to the dealer and they tweeked the amps so its louder just not as clear now. I also found that the tower speakers are louder when the interior speakers are not as loud at lower volumes. its kind of annoying to have them like that especially for the passengers in the back.

I am now determined to buy new tower speakers. I have been hearing about the WS Rev10's. So I was considering buying 2 pairs of Rev10's and (2) Syn4 amps. Do I have enought battery poqwer for these?

I am usually using the boat and maybe every weekend I chill at a sandbar for 2-3 hours with the radio going but nothing too loud. Do I need extra batteries? I currently have the (2) standard Deka batteries with the switch.

I see alot of post on other speakers including exile, etc. I have seen youtube videos of different speakers and I just want some pro and cons on different speakers. I would rather have more speaker power than I need just incase I want it!

What should I do with the standard speakers, amp and shelf? What is reasonable to ask for them?

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Earmark Marine

MichLivin,

I'm not permitted to write about audio product but I can answer the battery run time question.

The equation to determine run time in comparison to your battery amp/hours will be dependent on the accuracy of the amplifier ratings, the class and efficiency of those amplifiers, the impedance load in how they are used, where you set your volume and tone, the type of music, system efficiency and tuning plus a few other factors. So its not an exact science and the results will vary. But here is an average.

Given the transient nature of music (we are not talking DC bulbs) a true 1000 watt system will consume on average 45 amp/hours if played at full tilt. So that would be nearly 1.5 hour on a standard fully charged group 24 lead acid battery (65 A/H).

If you are running at 10 dB less, which you would perceive as half volume, you will consume a little more than one/tenth of the current. So that might last all day.

You can apply this to your power situation and give it a pretty good guess. But there are a couple more issues to consider. Even with a deep cycle battery, you don't want to deplete your battery to empty or it will significantly shorten the battery reserves and lifespan. You want to keep the depletion to about 50 percent to maximize battery performance and longevity. That means having a little extra capacity.

Then you should have a means of fully restoring the battery(s). And, an alternator isn't going to do it on its own after several hours of at rest play time. This requires have a smart charger with an amperage capacity that is well matched to your collective batteries amp/hours. AC shore power access for a charger becomes essential.

David

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Brent Wall

I currently have a single pair of Pro80s powered by a SYN4. They certainly have the clear projection to the rider but are a little harsh near the boat. I understand this was addressed in the design on the new Rev10s so I think you will be very pleased.

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MLA

If you are seeking more volume, and clear volume, to the rider, then you are on the right track with an HLCD. Unfortunately, volume is volume, so even the new speakers could be loud and "in your face" for the passengers seated on the rear bench. Adjusting the angle of the tower speakers to compensate for the attitude of the boat while loaded and on plane, can help a little. it may also be a benefit to investigate adding a zone control device as well. This will allow you to adjust the volume of the in-boat and tower zone independently of each other.

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MichLivin

MichLivin,

I'm not permitted to write about audio product but I can answer the battery run time question.

The equation to determine run time in comparison to your battery amp/hours will be dependent on the accuracy of the amplifier ratings, the class and efficiency of those amplifiers, the impedance load in how they are used, where you set your volume and tone, the type of music, system efficiency and tuning plus a few other factors. So its not an exact science and the results will vary. But here is an average.

Given the transient nature of music (we are not talking DC bulbs) a true 1000 watt system will consume on average 45 amp/hours if played at full tilt. So that would be nearly 1.5 hour on a standard fully charged group 24 lead acid battery (65 A/H).

If you are running at 10 dB less, which you would perceive as half volume, you will consume a little more than one/tenth of the current. So that might last all day.

You can apply this to your power situation and give it a pretty good guess. But there are a couple more issues to consider. Even with a deep cycle battery, you don't want to deplete your battery to empty or it will significantly shorten the battery reserves and lifespan. You want to keep the depletion to about 50 percent to maximize battery performance and longevity. That means having a little extra capacity.

Then you should have a means of fully restoring the battery(s). And, an alternator isn't going to do it on its own after several hours of at rest play time. This requires have a smart charger with an amperage capacity that is well matched to your collective batteries amp/hours. AC shore power access for a charger becomes essential.

David

What are some of the lines for smart chargers? This is all new to me, I read the forums but never really understood it until now. My alternator was overcharging my batteries end of last season and had to be replaced, is that a sign that I was using my alternator too much to charge my drained batteries?

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MichLivin

I currently have a single pair of Pro80s powered by a SYN4. They certainly have the clear projection to the rider but are a little harsh near the boat. I understand this was addressed in the design on the new Rev10s so I think you will be very pleased.

by sounding harsh, do you mean loud for the passengers as mentioned in another post? Did you add extra batteries and a charging system too?

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Murphy8166

MichLivin - it sounds like you are on the right track with your questions about extra batteries and your strong thoughts about going with the Wetsounds Rev 10's.

I have owned almost every WS Tower Speaker out there (Pro 60's, Pro 80's MD-8's and finally the Rev 10) I would suggest as you did, going with the Rev 10's either one pair or two pairs. The 10" speaker really get's it done and sounds so good in the boat and way past 80 feet back.

If you go with two pair you will have to do with two amps is you want to stay in the WS line of amplifiers. With two amps running in a bridged mode you will be pulling some serious current from the batteries and I would suugest at a minimum having two group 31's or a pair of 6 volts for the stereo bank alone.

I hate to discourage you from buying two sets, but have you thought about one set of Rev 10's and one Syn4 amp? This is what I am running and it is plenty loud. I used to be the guy who wanted to be the loudest at the sandbar and that is why I ran 4 Pro 80's. Now I would rather be able to listen to clean music in the boat, while surfing and wakeboarding as well as while hanging out at the sandbar. One Syn 4 bridged pulls 82 amps of current.

tower.jpg

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Earmark Marine

MichLivin,

A few of the well known smart chargers could be Ctek, Guest, Dual Pro, Xantrex, Promariner (ProSport), Xantrex or Intelli-Power. The particular brand is secondary to the function. You want dual banks in a multi-stage charger with enough amperage capacity to fit your battery capacity. For this particular application a tender/trickle/minder charger is not adequate for maximum battery life.

When batteries have been improperly charged over time and have lost their ability to accept or hold a charge, they will continue to try and will heat up. This condition isn't healthy for your alternator. Oftentimes an alternator rebuild is a result of overtaxing it with a combination of a large stereo and depleted batteries or someone who tried to stretch another season out of a group of already bad batteries.

David

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MichLivin

MichLivin - it sounds like you are on the right track with your questions about extra batteries and your strong thoughts about going with the Wetsounds Rev 10's.

I have owned almost every WS Tower Speaker out there (Pro 60's, Pro 80's MD-8's and finally the Rev 10) I would suggest as you did, going with the Rev 10's either one pair or two pairs. The 10" speaker really get's it done and sounds so good in the boat and way past 80 feet back.

If you go with two pair you will have to do with two amps is you want to stay in the WS line of amplifiers. With two amps running in a bridged mode you will be pulling some serious current from the batteries and I would suugest at a minimum having two group 31's or a pair of 6 volts for the stereo bank alone.

I hate to discourage you from buying two sets, but have you thought about one set of Rev 10's and one Syn4 amp? This is what I am running and it is plenty loud. I used to be the guy who wanted to be the loudest at the sandbar and that is why I ran 4 Pro 80's. Now I would rather be able to listen to clean music in the boat, while surfing and wakeboarding as well as while hanging out at the sandbar. One Syn 4 bridged pulls 82 amps of current.

tower.jpg

Thanks for the feedback Murphy, I am not really sure if I need 2 sets of Rev10's but I always found that is better to go big from the start or it will cost more in the end. If I have 2 sets do you feel that I would have trouble with clarity? Or could I just tone them down? I really wish I could listen to a set of Rev10's locally to see if I want 2 sets or 1 set. You tube videos are not the same.

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Murphy8166

IMO - one set of Rev 10's on the tower with 400 watts a piece is going big. Two sets will not give you any more or less clarity but will give you more amplitude....it will be louder. Clarity has more to do with the equipent, tuning and source. So if you have Wetsounds (good equipment), a properly tuned amp and a good music source (CD or Itunes) then clarity will never come into play. Multiple sets will just give you more volume and output.

There has to be some folks in MI that have a set of Rev 10's on their tower. I know that you will not be dissapointed in them.

Have you given tim a call with Wetsounds to see if he has any dealers or knows of any boats in your neck of the woods.

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Murphy8166

From your picture on your page it looks like you have the 6x9 cans from Malibu. You could always add in the 6x9 HLCD from Wetsounds and put a new amp to them.

Not sure if you knew this, but the WS 6x9 is a factory option from Malibu that can be installed in the titan cans.

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MichLivin

From your picture on your page it looks like you have the 6x9 cans from Malibu. You could always add in the 6x9 HLCD from Wetsounds and put a new amp to them.

Not sure if you knew this, but the WS 6x9 is a factory option from Malibu that can be installed in the titan cans.

Yea, I saw that option came out after I ordered my boat originally. I was thinking the std 6x9's would be good, but again I want more!

I thought about the conversion but the Rev10's appear to a step up from the 6x9's in the titan cans.

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Murphy8166

Yea, I saw that option came out after I ordered my boat originally. I was thinking the std 6x9's would be good, but again I want more!

I thought about the conversion but the Rev10's appear to a step up from the 6x9's in the titan cans.

The rev 10 would be a big stepup from the 6x9. Lots of options within WS!!

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Fman

I also am running the Rev 10s on my 2011 vlx. They are very nice speakers, with excellent mid bass, and will project 80 ft out with no problems. I would suggest trying one pair first, see how you like them, then you can always add more if needed. We don't even run them half way up and its plenty loud to hear boarding at 70 feet.

The G3 design puts the speakers pretty far back in the center of the boat, which blasts people out sitting in the back seat... This is my only complaint about the G3. I think you will run into this problem with any tower speaker on the G3.

Would also recommend the WS 420 eq, to allow you to adjust inboat speakers and tower speakers volume seperately.

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shawndoggy

LOL, if you need feedback, definitely buy a ws420!

I don't think it can really ever be loud enough from the perspective of the guy with the handle in his hand. I have two pairs of Rev10s on an Arc KS600.2, and yes, I can hear the music while wakeboarding, but by no means is it like having headphones on. Between exhaust noise and wind, it really can't ever be too loud at wakeboard range. That said, if you are thinking of just one pair, I'd go with the more powerful arc amp over the bridged syn4. More dynamic headroom, similar pricing. And you can add a second pair of Rev10s on the amp if you want to down the road.

The Rev10s do sound good near field, but a forward leaning tower and lower speaker mounting positions are going to take their toll on the rear seat occupants. No way around that. Some form of volume controller for the towers and cabins is a must, whether or not it's the ws420.

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Malibudude

I purchased a 2011 LSV last year with 4 (Alpha II) tower speakers and the standard RF amp. I was not that impressed with the sound when I was wakeboarding, so I talked to the dealer and they tweeked the amps so its louder just not as clear now. I also found that the tower speakers are louder when the interior speakers are not as loud at lower volumes. its kind of annoying to have them like that especially for the passengers in the back.

I am now determined to buy new tower speakers. I have been hearing about the WS Rev10's. So I was considering buying 2 pairs of Rev10's and (2) Syn4 amps. Do I have enought battery poqwer for these?

I am usually using the boat and maybe every weekend I chill at a sandbar for 2-3 hours with the radio going but nothing too loud. Do I need extra batteries? I currently have the (2) standard Deka batteries with the switch.

I see alot of post on other speakers including exile, etc. I have seen youtube videos of different speakers and I just want some pro and cons on different speakers. I would rather have more speaker power than I need just incase I want it!

What should I do with the standard speakers, amp and shelf? What is reasonable to ask for them?

Seriously, any brand NVS, Bullet, Wet Sounds or Exile will be leaps and bounds over the Alpha's. Anyone of these brands will sound great but the speaker is only part of it the tuning is a major part and if not done correctly even these brands sound bad. In a blind test with all the these brands setup the exact same way you couldn't tell them apart. Nothing on Youtube is worth anything as you don't know the conditions nor the setup..again any of these brands properly setup and i.e. tuned and enough power to them...you'll be stoked. Titan makes the best tower hands down but the speaker department unfortunately wasn't so awesome.

I think I sold my Alpha's for $500 for two pair in good shape.

It's only a matter of time before we have more lakes ticketing for loud music, we already have one.

Or

keep the alphas and get a nano w/ water proof case and earphones...much cheaper and your rear seated passengers won't be deaf by days end... :lol:

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shawndoggy

In a blind test with all the these brands setup the exact same way you couldn't tell them apart.

LOL. I don't think anyone thinks that's true.

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Malibudude

LOL. I don't think anyone thinks that's true.

The true audiophile no, but the average joe any high quality speaker properly setup will be virtually indistinguishable. I'm not talking Kraco brand.... :lol:

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shawndoggy

The true audiophile no, but the average joe any high quality speaker properly setup will be virtually indistinguishable. I'm not talking Kraco brand.... :lol:

at the end of the rope it all sounds the same. in the boat, I'd argue there are some differences that you could appreciate, even blindfolded. And on a tower like the G3, where the speakers are forward of a good part of the cabin, how they sound in the boat is pretty important.

Edited by shawndoggy

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Earmark Marine

Without any bias one way or another or mention of any brand or product I would fully agree that it would be hard to differentiate between one brand and another of the same speaker type and size at the same volume at the end of a rope with all the distance, turbulence and noise competition.

To state that a novice could not hear differences in a near field comparison is just not at all accurate. Even different evolutions of the same brand sound strikingly different. Opinions would contrast and there may be subjective interpretations but there are clearly differences.

David

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BSUBU_Kris

You could also try an EQ first. I added an AudioControl EQ and it was like a totally different system keeping everything else the same. The AudioControl unit will let you adjust the preamp outputs which allowed me to pretty much have the amp gains close to the minimum setting. I could not believe how much better the whole system including the sub woofer sounded. Also able to easily fade the tower speakers.

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Murphy8166

Another vote for Audiocontrol Three.2 EQ....it is a wonderful unit

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MichLivin

I never thought about that, I will definetly give it a try first.

Now I am excited, I am going to try to get my boat out of storage to try it out!

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Hammertime

I'm not talking Kraco brand....

Don't be a hater, nothing says quality like a sweet 8-track and 6 sets of Kraco 6x9's! :rofl:

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board brained

not sure if this helps but I had a bunch of work done on the sound system this winter.

alot of work with the interior, sub, batteries, 3 amps etc but re the tower I bought the samson s9HD speakers (2) with and exile amp (Xi1K) 600 W at 4ohm or 1000W at 2 ohm......???????and it is freaking insane how clear and loud they are. I only wanted 2 tower speakers as my boat (vride) is smaller and I have 4 racks and 2 sets of lights so getting crowded.........

anyway I have ridden behind a bunch of "kitted out" boats with 4 speakers etc and this 2 speaker set up is fantastic. thanks to the guys at Bakes!!!!!

not sure if it is because of the size or what but what I have seems to have alot more bass than other boats with 4 smaller speakers

I also added a Wet sounds WS420 4 band parametric equalizer which lets me adjust tower, sub and boat interior all separately and easily........

S

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