Just Pulled The Trigger.....

[LJboater]

- Coil-on-plug design allows for total timing control through the ECM. No timing adjustments required

- No distributor, cap, or rotor to wear out

- More power through superior head and intake design

- Better fuel economy from a more efficient engine

- Larger RPM range

- Lighter weight

I'm confused aren't the current model SB 350 in our boats coming with all the upgrades you pointed out.

[Tims]

I'm confused aren't the current model SB 350 in our boats coming with all the upgrades you pointed out.

The current SB 350 does not come with the upgrades that Nitrousbird listed. It still has a distributor, cap, rotor, etc. There is no doubt that the LS style motors are more modern than the GEN-1 motors that are still offered in our boats. I think the real question is; what value do the LS motors really deliver for the extra cost? For me, very little. I was set to buy the 6.0L but my dealer made me test a 6.0L and Monsoon "back to back" in a VLX with same prop pitch. To my surprise I felt no difference in the seat of the pants when coming on plane. The 410 did have better "on plane" acceleration but the difference to me was very slight. I did not test top speed. In the end, my dealer talked me out of the 6.0L and I saved quite a bit of money going with the Monsoon.

Still wish I had the extra horsepower though.

To the op, congratulations on your purchase.

[srintx]

Congrats

Can't wait to see the pics of it on the water!

[Nitrousbird]

I think the real question is; what value do the LS motors really deliver for the extra cost?

The main point is there should be no extra cost for the LSx motor, especially the truck based motors. The 350 shouldn't even be an option, and there is a lot of profit built into those motor options.

I'm confused aren't the current model SB 350 in our boats coming with all the upgrades you pointed out.

Not at all. Still running a distributor. Still runnning heads that basically took the LT1 head design and removed the reverse cooling. Same motor GM last updated in 1996 and lived its last days in full size vans until around 2003. Still heavier, still have a lower RPM range, and still have consumers that are willing to pay 60k+ for the latest, greatest, high tech wakeboat with one of the most antiquated powerplants you can put in a boat (3.0L Mercrusier being probably THE most antiquated still being put into boats).

Edited January 7, 2012 by Nitrousbird

[saidainc]

The current SB 350 does not come with the upgrades that Nitrousbird listed. It still has a distributor, cap, rotor, etc. There is no doubt that the LS style motors are more modern than the GEN-1 motors that are still offered in our boats. I think the real question is; what value do the LS motors really deliver for the extra cost? For me, very little. I was set to buy the 6.0L but my dealer made me test a 6.0L and Monsoon "back to back" in a VLX with same prop pitch. To my surprise I felt no difference in the seat of the pants when coming on plane. The 410 did have better "on plane" acceleration but the difference to me was very slight. I did not test top speed. In the end, my dealer talked me out of the 6.0L and I saved quite a bit of money going with the Monsoon.

Still wish I had the extra horsepower though.

To the op, congratulations on your purchase.

Damn this is almost IDENTICAL to what my dealer rep said. He said and I quote "There is very little difference achieving plane that is noticeable without packing the boat to the gills with 15 people and having 2-3 extra fatsacks between the 350 and the 410....certainly not enough to justify 6-8k"

[Bobby Light]

What is the upcharge to the 410? No way its 8k is it?

[LJboater]

I am sum what embarrassed to hear a brand new boat still has a distributor. Maybe we should just call it the model T motor

[Fman]

I am sum what embarrassed to hear a brand new boat still has a distributor. Maybe we should just call it the model T motor

I upgraded my monsoon 350 to a double pumper carb with electric choke, and electronic ignition with no points, well worth the extra $$$

[thtrog]

Not sure of the cost of Fman's upgrade but the L96/410 list $3700 over the 350 Monsoon.

[REW]

Not sure of the cost of Fman's upgrade but the L96/410 list $3700 over the 350 Monsoon.

Intresting the differance between an 1500 Surburban and a 2500 surburban on Chevy's site is only $1610 (base prices) The motor in the 1500 is a 5.3 325 hp and the 2500 is the L96 listed at 355 hp.

http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-suvs/

Did someone mention earlier the profit built into these engine upgrades?

[jrad12381]

Does anyone know or have solid figures on the feel usage between these 2 motors? I know the LS series motors in the trucks give much better fuel economy over the 5.7 vortec motors. If it is a decent savings I may try to call up malibu and change my motor option if I still have time.

[thtrog]

I've not run enough hours other than break-in to verify fuel consumption. I can tell you nyryan2001 was at Wake the World 3 days last summer with us and comparing fuel usage it was pretty simular, his was in a 247!

[saidainc]

3 ft pounds of more torque in the 410 over the 350. Im just having a hard time figuring how this is worth thousands more?

[Fman]

I've not run enough hours other than break-in to verify fuel consumption. I can tell you nyryan2001 was at Wake the World 3 days last summer with us and comparing fuel usage it was pretty simular, his was in a 247!

If we ride hard all day, its not uncommon for us to burn over 40 gallons of fuel in one day with the Monsoon 350... our top day last year for fuel consumption was 43 gallons... surfing seems to burn up even more... I am guessing 4-4.5 gallons per hour is about what we consume on average with 6-10 people in the boat, full ice chest, gear, etc...

[nyryan2001]

the upcharge to the 410 is $3-4K over the 350.

I think fuel usage is slightly higher, but nothing significantly over the 350. The 410 will straight outrun and outcarry a 350 make no doubt about it.

Again, I think its all about the weight you carry. If you plan on going heavy for surfing or wakeboarding, get the bigger engine. If you ski and do moderate stuff, the 350 is fine.

I can run 4000lbs ballast for surfing in my with the 410 with no problems. You could not do that with the 350, it"ll cavitate.

Here is my boat full ballast, full 80gal fuel tank, full wedge and 9 folks onboard (2 were 300-350lb guys), pulling 2 boarders at 23-24mph and the wake was still mid thigh high. Both were pro level riders, both said it was the biggest wake they had ever seen at those speeds. I am glad I had the 410 doing this.

Edited January 9, 2012 by nyryan2001

[shawndoggy]

Intresting the differance between an 1500 Surburban and a 2500 surburban on Chevy's site is only $1610 (base prices) The motor in the 1500 is a 5.3 325 hp and the 2500 is the L96 listed at 355 hp.

http://www.chevrolet.../suburban-suvs/

Did someone mention earlier the profit built into these engine upgrades?

you need to factor in the much smaller volume that indmar is pushing, as well as the fact that they need to recover on their costs of engineering the marinization bits. Sure the long block is the same, but exhaust, intake, cats, etc etc all add up.

[REW]

you need to factor in the much smaller volume that indmar is pushing, as well as the fact that they need to recover on their costs of engineering the marinization bits. Sure the long block is the same, but exhaust, intake, cats, etc etc all add up.

You are correct but I was just pointing out the cost differance. If I am not mistaken there are other differances between the two Suburbans as well. (not sure what they are). Also the L96 is only 352hp in the Suburban, instead of the 410.

[saidainc]

the upcharge to the 410 is $3-4K over the 350.

I think fuel usage is slightly higher, but nothing significantly over the 350. The 410 will straight outrun and outcarry a 350 make no doubt about it.

Again, I think its all about the weight you carry. If you plan on going heavy for surfing or wakeboarding, get the bigger engine. If you ski and do moderate stuff, the 350 is fine.

I can run 4000lbs ballast for surfing in my with the 410 with no problems. You could not do that with the 350, it"ll cavitate.

Keep in mind the MXZ, which was the discussion point, is a lighter weight boat.

I think what you wrote is only partially true but certainly not what the dealers who have demoed all 3 power plant options on the MXZ have said. Im sure there is a difference at 4000lbs but I had one dealer who just demoed the 350 and the 410 tell me that with a high altitude prop and the 350, there is only slight difference at stock ballast and this was BEFORE I bought the 350 and was deciding between the two engines.

He ran the MXZ fully loaded with 6 occupants and said it was difficult to determine a immediately noticeable difference...THIS was the reason I opted for the 350 because we often ride weekdays with 5-7 people, stock or with 700lb extra at 3000 elevation.

Edited January 15, 2012 by saidainc

[wakeboarder3780]

So I'm confused. I thought cavitation was caused by air getting into your prop rotation. Above someone posted that assuming a 4k load, if you had the 350 engine you would cavitate, but if you had the 410 it wouldn't. I don't claim to be a mechanical mastermind by any means. I know barely enough to get by. But this one doesn't make sense to me. Why does a different engine effect cavitation?

[REW]

So I'm confused. I thought cavitation was caused by air getting into your prop rotation. Above someone posted that assuming a 4k load, if you had the 350 engine you would cavitate, but if you had the 410 it wouldn't. I don't claim to be a mechanical mastermind by any means. I know barely enough to get by. But this one doesn't make sense to me. Why does a different engine effect cavitation?

Engine size or slection will not cause cavitation. You are correct in stating that cavitation is the pulling of air into the prop rotation. Prop damage, wrong propeller for the application, prop out of ballance etc. are the things that will cause cavitation. The design of an inboard boat pretty much takes care of the cavitation issue (assuming no prop damage). I am sure there are things you can do while driving to intrpoduce air under the boat and into the porp rotation however just pushing the throttle down isn't one of them.

[TallRedRider]

So I'm confused. I thought cavitation was caused by air getting into your prop rotation. Above someone posted that assuming a 4k load, if you had the 350 engine you would cavitate, but if you had the 410 it wouldn't. I don't claim to be a mechanical mastermind by any means. I know barely enough to get by. But this one doesn't make sense to me. Why does a different engine effect cavitation?

The only thing I would dream of is that a bigger engine could use a different prop, and it might cavitate less because of the prop change?

Props being the same, I can't see how it would make a difference.

The 8.1 in my X45 would cause cavitation. That means that the prop would push the water hard enough to cause air bubbles to form behind the prop, then those air bubbles would collapse, releasing tiny bits of energy. The energy released would slowly chip away at the gelcoat. MC fixed this problem by installing a metal plate that covered the rudder box and the fiberglass right behind the propeller. I have not seen this mentioned in any of the malibu threads.

[REW]

The only thing I would dream of is that a bigger engine could use a different prop, and it might cavitate less because of the prop change?

Props being the same, I can't see how it would make a difference.

The 8.1 in my X45 would cause cavitation. That means that the prop would push the water hard enough to cause air bubbles to form behind the prop, then those air bubbles would collapse, releasing tiny bits of energy. The energy released would slowly chip away at the gelcoat. MC fixed this problem by installing a metal plate that covered the rudder box and the fiberglass right behind the propeller. I have not seen this mentioned in any of the malibu threads.

Wow the most I have heard of before was the airbbbles pitting the prop, and this usually caused a ballance issue or some sort of damage. Very intresting that the gelcoat was getting pitted.

[Malibudude]

Wow the most I have heard of before was the airbbbles pitting the prop, and this usually caused a ballance issue or some sort of damage. Very intresting that the gelcoat was getting pitted.

Two types of issues w/ dealing w/ prop slippage.

Ventilation

Ventilation is air from the water surface or exhaust gases being drawn into the propeller blades which causes the propeller to over rev and lose thrust. This is the effect that you sometimes feel when you are running in a following sea in rough weather.

Cavitation

Cavitation is the phenomenon of water vaporizing or boiling due to the extreme decrease in pressure on the forward, or, suction side of the propeller blade. Cavitation can be caused by nicks in the leading edge, bent blades, too much cup, sharp corners at the leading edge, incorrect matching of propeller style to the vessel and engine or, simply high vessel speed.

[wakeboarder3780]

Thanks for the notes guys. Interesting to hear about what happened to your x45 TRR, never would have imagined that happening to a boat. Interesting fix too, I'm surprised the prop didn't get manhandled over time as well.

mdude, thanks for the clarification of those two terms, In my head I was thinking ventilation == cavitation which isn't the case thanks for the terminology clarification.

How many months until we can ride again? Man I can't wait.