Towing

[DONTW8]

If your boat needs to be up that high to tow it nice move it back further on the trailer and then lower the tongue.

For better handling you need to move the weight of the boat forward, not aft.

This has been discussed here before.

Think about it.

Would the boat tow better if the trailer axles were at the transom of the boat ?

Or would it tow better if the axles were at the nose ?

In my 42 years of boat towing I have found better results with a lower tongue ( within limits) rather than a higher tongue. That difference is minimal.

Moving the trailer axles back creates a huge difference in handling.

[Deephaven]

For better handling you need to move the weight of the boat forward, not aft.

This has been discussed here before.

Think about it.

Would the boat tow better if the trailer axles were at the transom of the boat ?

Or would it tow better if the axles were at the nose ?

In my 42 years of boat towing I have found better results with a lower tongue ( within limits) rather than a higher tongue. That difference is minimal.

Moving the trailer axles back creates a huge difference in handling.

Forward/Aft depend a lot on tongue weight as well. Obviously as forward as possible without overweighing your tongue is appropriate. There are some really high sounding hitches on here which I assume is because there is too much tongue weight when in the down position. If its only to make the trailer look level then first I'd throw that complex out the window and lower the hitch. I assumed that those who do have them high tried a lower position first and had issues with the handling of their vehicle meaning they can either raise it or push the boat back.

[Bozboat]

Am I right to assume that a Vdrive would have a lower tongue weight than a DD all other variables equal?

[DONTW8]

Am I right to assume that a Vdrive would have a lower tongue weight than a DD all other variables equal?

The simple answer is yes.

If the direct drive boat and the v-drive boat are on the same trailer , then the tongue weight will be lower with the v-drive on that trailer.

Malibu has made some hulls with both the v-drive and the direct drive, IIRC. I am sure that WakeGirl can tell us which ones are crossovers.

One of the biggest advantages of towing with the old rough riding , stinky smelling, Duramax ( Powerstroke, Cummins) , trucks is that you can load the hitch up with a heavy tongue weight. From practical experience, I can say that just an additional 2% extra on the hitch will make a difference and an extra 5 % will really make a positive difference. This is especially helpful if most of your roads are two lane , and curvacious, instead of Interstate 80.

[Malibudude]

The simple answer is yes.

If the direct drive boat and the v-drive boat are on the same trailer , then the tongue weight will be lower with the v-drive on that trailer.

Malibu has made some hulls with both the v-drive and the direct drive, IIRC. I am sure that WakeGirl can tell us which ones are crossovers.

One of the biggest advantages of towing with the old rough riding , stinky smelling, Duramax ( Powerstroke, Cummins) , trucks is that you can load the hitch up with a heavy tongue weight. From practical experience, I can say that just an additional 2% extra on the hitch will make a difference and an extra 5 % will really make a positive difference. This is especially helpful if most of your roads are two lane , and curvacious, instead of Interstate 80.

Towing a malibu having a diesel and tongue weight really isn't an issue, a gasser would be perfectly fine with the same load. Any 3/4 or 1-ton gasser or diesel really makes not difference each can handle it. 300 hundred paver bricks in the back of a 3/4 ton makes the ride very nice regardless what engine you have. I'll give you that the diesels weigh more....

The crossover boats XTI would react no different than any other DD. I find that my tandem trailer w/ my vd trailers much better than my dd on a tandem SBT vs Extreme.

[DONTW8]

I concur. Insert 3 / 4 ton for Duramax.

As to your second point , in my considerable experience I have observed that Silver Edition Malibus , whether they be a VLX or an LXI , trailer better than the standard edition

[Soon2BV]

Am I right to assume that a Vdrive would have a lower tongue weight than a DD all other variables equal?

I say no. If the boats are the same weight, and the trailer is set up properly, then the tongue weights should be the same. One "guideline" is 10% of the total trailer weight is a "good" reference for tongue weight (opinions vary from 8 - 15%).

In reality, for a given length boat a VDrive is heavier due to the drive set-up, so for the same length boat, the VDrive will likely have a higher tongue weight.

A 20' Response is 2450 pounds. A 20' Sunscape is 3200 pouunds (but it is a wider boat), so the tongue weight on the Sunscape could be about 75 pounds (10% of a 750 pound difference) more than the Response.

[Bozboat]

Wouldn't the center of gravity on a V drive be further back than a DD. My Engine sits over the middle of the axles on the trailer, not hanging off the back, so it would seem that a Trailer for a V drive should be set up differently.

[Soon2BV]

I hate it when you make me do math, but I did some math.

Assumptions -

Boat weight = 4000 pounds.

Tongue Weight = 400 pounds.

Distance from center of axles to center of ball = 18 feet.

If the trailer / ball are perfectly level, tongue weight = 400 pounds in a vertical (down) direction onto the ball.

Assume the ball is raised 6 inches (0.5 feet).

This is a 0.5 foot increase over 18 feet = 0.5 degrees.

This angle of the tongue would result in a vertical and horizontal component of the 400 pounds.

Vertical ~ 396 pounds.

Horizontal ~ 4 pounds.

So a change of the ball height of 6" has a minimal effect on the tongue weight at the ball.

[Soon2BV]

Wouldn't the center of gravity on a V drive be further back than a DD. My Engine sits over the middle of the axles on the trailer, not hanging off the back, so it would seem that a Trailer for a V drive should be set up differently.

Yes. It is hard to tell, but if you scroll through some of the pictures in the "rigs" thread the DD axles tend to be closer to the center of the boat, and the VDrives are moved a little further to the rear.

[Bozboat]

My apologizes for making you do math. Your second post answered my question. Thanks

Edited November 16, 2011 by Bozboat

[MARiley]

i too HATE the 55 rule. also, i have never been signaled, much less pulled over for going 65. cops around here understand that 55 is too damned slow, especially here at watkins glen--err, i'm sorry, the 5.

and i tow about 400 miles round trip twice a month in the summertime to the river. i definitely go 70 as much as i can. i suggest getting one of these bad boys. they are worth their weight in gold.

[MARiley]

Just driving on the freeways in LA and Orange County are a disadvantage. You are lucky if you are able to get your speed above 30 mph on a weekday and even the weekend traffic is bad.

oh, come on. it's not THAT bad. learn the traffic patterns and use them to your advantage. B)

[TallRedRider]

I think the other issue at hand with the hitch height is if the boat is nose down too much, then the front tires on the trailer are carrying more of the weight. With a 247, the stupid Load Range C tires are already close to being overloaded. There are 14 inch rims on the Extreme trailers and there is only 1 load range D tire made in the universe that would fit them (Kumho 857 if anyone is considering this). So I am trying to get my trailer close to level when riding to also distribute the weight between the axles for less chance of overloading a tire.

If I were really worried about it, I would install the air bags to help decrease the sag from the tongue weight, and that would get it to level. (as was mentioned above). I am surprised that air bags are not that expensive of an install, seems like they were less than $300 installed last time I checked...is that about right?

Edited November 16, 2011 by TallRedRider

[Bobby Light]

I think the other issue at hand with the hitch height is if the boat is nose down too much, then the front tires on the trailer are carrying more of the weight. With a 247, the stupid Load Range C tires are already close to being overloaded. There are 14 inch rims on the Extreme trailers and there is only 1 load range D tire made in the universe that would fit them (Kumho 857 if anyone is considering this). So I am trying to get my trailer close to level when riding to also distribute the weight between the axles for less chance of overloading a tire.

If I were really worried about it, I would install the air bags to help decrease the sag from the tongue weight, and that would get it to level. (as was mentioned above). I am surprised that air bags are not that expensive of an install, seems like they were less than $300 installed last time I checked...is that about right?

Not all extreme trailers have 14" tires FYI. Is be getting a hitch with less of a drop if I were you.

[Deephaven]

I hate it when you make me do math, but I did some math.

Assumptions -

Boat weight = 4000 pounds.

Tongue Weight = 400 pounds.

Distance from center of axles to center of ball = 18 feet.

If the trailer / ball are perfectly level, tongue weight = 400 pounds in a vertical (down) direction onto the ball.

Assume the ball is raised 6 inches (0.5 feet).

This is a 0.5 foot increase over 18 feet = 0.5 degrees.

This angle of the tongue would result in a vertical and horizontal component of the 400 pounds.

Vertical ~ 396 pounds.

Horizontal ~ 4 pounds.

So a change of the ball height of 6" has a minimal effect on the tongue weight at the ball.

You are assuming an equal weight behind and in front of the trailer tires in your calculation which isn't the case. Have to know those variables to compute how the fulcrum loads.

I think the other issue at hand with the hitch height is if the boat is nose down too much, then the front tires on the trailer are carrying more of the weight. With a 247, the stupid Load Range C tires are already close to being overloaded. There are 14 inch rims on the Extreme trailers and there is only 1 load range D tire made in the universe that would fit them (Kumho 857 if anyone is considering this). So I am trying to get my trailer close to level when riding to also distribute the weight between the axles for less chance of overloading a tire.

If I were really worried about it, I would install the air bags to help decrease the sag from the tongue weight, and that would get it to level. (as was mentioned above). I am surprised that air bags are not that expensive of an install, seems like they were less than $300 installed last time I checked...is that about right?

Considering the trailer tires are nearly a "point" load (ie they aren't spaced very far apart) the angle of the trailer isn't that critical on the load each of the tires has. Obviously there is some variance, but again the weight of the boat behind the tires isn't the same as it is in front. If it were of course your tongue weight would be WAY beyond the 10%. Your tire will look more loaded as the sidewall stretches due to the need to have a lower overall height, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is carrying more load. Not saying they will be exactly equal, but I think much closer than you are assuming they will be.

[Soon2BV]

You are assuming an equal weight behind and in front of the trailer tires in your calculation which isn't the case. Have to know those variables to compute how the fulcrum loads.

The weight placement is not relevant, because it did not change. All that changed was the angle of the trailer (tongue), wich changes the vectors (vertical and horizontal) components of the 400 pound tongue weight.

All I assumed was that 3600 pounds was riding on the tires, and 400 pounds on the ball.