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Slayer

Winterize....

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Slayer

Today I pulled the boat and attempted to winterize it. Having never done this before on an inboard, I'm not sure I did it correctly. I have read the numerous threads here about the matter, downloaded some checklists, etc. I did the typical end of season oil change after bringing it to temp, changed the trans fluid, etc. Then, got it back up close to temp...running on a hose after 20 minutes and it never got to 160. I shut it down, drained the block and exhaust, then ran antifreeze through it. I used pink, ran it until it came out the exhaust, then shut it down and packed it up and stuffed it in the garage. I used the pink stuff and it took just shy of 5 gallons before it started coming out of the exhaust.

All that's left now is to pull the battery and blow out the air lines to the speedos because they were not working well toward the end of the season and give it a good pre-winter detail.

So, the question I have is related to the antifreeze. Should I drain what's in there and let her sit dry all winter with all hoses removed? Or, should I leave it as it is and call it good? Looking for some advise on this one. I planned to pull the t-stat but didn't have another gasket on hand and didn't do it. Thinking now that I should order a gasket, drain the thing, and refill with the t-stat out ensuring that the antifreeze got to everything.

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Molarbu

Today I pulled the boat and attempted to winterize it. Having never done this before on an inboard, I'm not sure I did it correctly. I have read the numerous threads here about the matter, downloaded some checklists, etc. I did the typical end of season oil change after bringing it to temp, changed the trans fluid, etc. Then, got it back up close to temp...running on a hose after 20 minutes and it never got to 160. I shut it down, drained the block and exhaust, then ran antifreeze through it. I used pink, ran it until it came out the exhaust, then shut it down and packed it up and stuffed it in the garage. I used the pink stuff and it took just shy of 5 gallons before it started coming out of the exhaust.

All that's left now is to pull the battery and blow out the air lines to the speedos because they were not working well toward the end of the season and give it a good pre-winter detail.

So, the question I have is related to the antifreeze. Should I drain what's in there and let her sit dry all winter with all hoses removed? Or, should I leave it as it is and call it good? Looking for some advise on this one. I planned to pull the t-stat but didn't have another gasket on hand and didn't do it. Thinking now that I should order a gasket, drain the thing, and refill with the t-stat out ensuring that the antifreeze got to everything.

I recommend you drain what is in there since you are unsure the tstat was open when you started running the antifreeze. Also, the antifreeze in the block is diluted and may freeze if subjected to low temps. Someone here said it might freeze, but won't expand, but I don't know if I'd bet my motor on it. Water is the only substance that expands when it freezes, everything else contracts when passing from a liquid to a solid. (Pressing glasses up higher on my nose right now)

When you drain it, keep a little from the block and manifolds in a container and put it in your freezer, it will freeze pretty quick.

Make sure you drain both sides of the block, the manifolds, hoses, and the heater and shower if your boat has them.

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shawndoggy

so you put antifreeze in a dry, drained motor, but the tstat may not have been opened?

What is the worst that's behind the closed tstat now, other than empty block?

Did you pull all the hoses? If not, I suppose that there could be some less-than-full-strength antifreeze in the coolant path? Just pull the hoses and drain it again and call it good if you are paranoid. The manual doesn't require, suggest, or imply that antifreeze be run through.

Edited by shawndoggy

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Molarbu

so you put antifreeze in a dry, drained motor, but the tstat may not have been opened?

What is the worst that's behind the closed tstat now, other than empty block?

Did you pull all the hoses? If not, I suppose that there could be some less-than-full-strength antifreeze in the coolant path? Just pull the hoses and drain it again and call it good if you are paranoid. The manual doesn't require, suggest, or imply that antifreeze be run through.

Good call, I misread the post. It sounds like he's safe.

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Slayer

I did pull all the hoses. I also understand that the manual does not require that antifreeze be added. I'm a bit anal about the boat and as stated, having never winterized an inboard, a wee bit paranoid. I think I'll take the advise and drain the thing again. Thanks.

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rjgogo

So, the question I have is related to the antifreeze. Should I drain what's in there and let her sit dry all winter with all hoses removed? Or, should I leave it as it is and call it good? Looking for some advise on this one. I planned to pull the t-stat but didn't have another gasket on hand and didn't do it. Thinking now that I should order a gasket, drain the thing, and refill with the t-stat out ensuring that the antifreeze got to everything.

Yes, stupid and unnecessary step, best bet is to leave the hoses all unconnected and open, that will ensure you will not have a problem. Why people keep perpetuating this false idea that you need to fill the block with antifreeze is beyond me, if the hoses are all off, the knock sensor is out and the drain on the other side is out is you are all good. Don't forget the plug on the trans cooler line. Problem is that if you leave it closed and the mixture is not right it will crack the block, if you leave it open nothing can crack because it is open and there is nothing to build pressure against.

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Slayer

Yes, stupid and unnecessary step, best bet is to leave the hoses all unconnected and open, that will ensure you will not have a problem. Why people keep perpetuating this false idea that you need to fill the block with antifreeze is beyond me, if the hoses are all off, the knock sensor is out and the drain on the other side is out is you are all good. Don't forget the plug on the trans cooler line. Problem is that if you leave it closed and the mixture is not right it will crack the block, if you leave it open nothing can crack because it is open and there is nothing to build pressure against.

Thanks, rjgogo. I appreciate the response. Don't appreciate stupid but I get it. Unnecessary would have been sufficient to get your point across. :)

Regarding your comment on the trans cooler line, I presume you're talking about the plug on the cooler itself, no? There is no plug on the line itself, simply the hose going to the cooler. If that's pulled and all water is drained from the cooler, then there should be no risk as I understand it. Please clarify that for me, if you would.

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Sixball

Winterized yesterday And filled with antifreeze as always... I looked at any area I could see into and Zero rust. My block plugs look like new no rust in the water drained not any signs of rust oh ya I am still on the original impeller. I am a believer of seals, rubber, once used should stay wet and lubricated for long life. :tease1:

Also don't forget to check and clean your heat exchanger screen. weeds gets very hard to get out after it sits for months dry.

Edited by Sixball

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rjgogo

Thanks, rjgogo. I appreciate the response. Don't appreciate stupid but I get it. Unnecessary would have been sufficient to get your point across. :)

Regarding your comment on the trans cooler line, I presume you're talking about the plug on the cooler itself, no? There is no plug on the line itself, simply the hose going to the cooler. If that's pulled and all water is drained from the cooler, then there should be no risk as I understand it. Please clarify that for me, if you would.

Sorry, Good point on the verbiage. Sad to see all the posts advocating an unnecessary and potentially harmful step in winterizing.

yes the plug on the cooler line needs to be removed and the hose to the thermostat as well as the plugs on the back of the exhaust manifold, or connecting hose depending on your configuration, and the knock sensor on one side of the block and the drain on the other side of the block. If you have a heater, you will need to take those hoses off the block as well and blow them out to remove the water, ditto for a shower. I don't have ballast tanks so I will not comment on those. If in doubt disconnect the hose and blow the water out, Open everything up. I like to take a zip lock bag and put all the clamps and plugs in the bag and then poke a hole in it and put it on the throttle lever for the spring. I lose stuff pretty easy and that is fool proof even for me.

I also remove the spark plugs and shoot some fogging oil in each one and then put them back in, not much and then turn it over with the coil wire removed so it won't start. If you have cat converter I don't think you should do that. I also depressurize the fuel system as a last step, may be a waste but in only takes 30 second and does not cost anything. Just remove the cap on the fuel rail line and press on it with rag to release the pressure. And finally I take the battery out and put it in the basement.

The problem with putting anti freeze in there is even when you drain the block there is still some water left in there. It is not a problem if everything is open but it can be a problem if it is all closed up and the antifreeze gets diluted with that water and it minimized the effect of the antifreeze and actually freezes. Then you have a closed system and when it expands something gives. If the entire system is open what little water left has room to evaporate or expand and nothing breaks.

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Slayer

Winterized yesterday And filled with antifreeze as always... I looked at any area I could see into and Zero rust. My block plugs look like new no rust in the water drained not any signs of rust oh ya I am still on the original impeller. I am a believer of seals, rubber, once used should stay wet and lubricated for long life. :tease1:

Also don't forget to check and clean your heat exchanger screen. weeds gets very hard to get out after it sits for months dry.

True fact! I did clean that out pretty well and all is good now.

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Slayer

Sorry, Good point on the verbiage. Sad to see all the posts advocating an unnecessary and potentially harmful step in winterizing.

yes the plug on the cooler line needs to be removed and the hose to the thermostat as well as the plugs on the back of the exhaust manifold, or connecting hose depending on your configuration, and the knock sensor on one side of the block and the drain on the other side of the block. If you have a heater, you will need to take those hoses off the block as well and blow them out to remove the water, ditto for a shower. I don't have ballast tanks so I will not comment on those. If in doubt disconnect the hose and blow the water out, Open everything up. I like to take a zip lock bag and put all the clamps and plugs in the bag and then poke a hole in it and put it on the throttle lever for the spring. I lose stuff pretty easy and that is fool proof even for me.

I also remove the spark plugs and shoot some fogging oil in each one and then put them back in, not much and then turn it over with the coil wire removed so it won't start. If you have cat converter I don't think you should do that. I also depressurize the fuel system as a last step, may be a waste but in only takes 30 second and does not cost anything. Just remove the cap on the fuel rail line and press on it with rag to release the pressure. And finally I take the battery out and put it in the basement.

The problem with putting anti freeze in there is even when you drain the block there is still some water left in there. It is not a problem if everything is open but it can be a problem if it is all closed up and the antifreeze gets diluted with that water and it minimized the effect of the antifreeze and actually freezes. Then you have a closed system and when it expands something gives. If the entire system is open what little water left has room to evaporate or expand and nothing breaks.

I think you make great points with which I tend to agree for the most part. My concern is much like what Sixball stated regarding seals, etc. It makes sense to me to keep everything wet I guess. As mentioned in another post, I'm going to drain a cup of antifreeze and put it in the freezer to see if it gets slushy. If it does, then I'm going to drain the entire thing again. I'm just a bit paranoid with this being a new to me boat as of April 2011 and having never winterized an inboard, I'm just wanting to be sure I do the right thing to mitigate any risk. It's stored indoors however my garage on a separate lot is not heated.

Edited by inlandlaker

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rjgogo

I think you make great points with which I tend to agree for the most part. My concern is much like what Sixball stated regarding seals, etc. It makes sense to me to keep everything wet I guess. As mentioned in another post, I'm going to drain a cup of antifreeze and put it in the freezer to see if it gets slushy. If it does, then I'm going to drain the entire thing again. I'm just a bit paranoid with this being a new to me boat as of April 2011 and having never winterized an inboard, I'm just wanting to be sure I do the right thing to mitigate any risk. It's stored indoors however my garage on a separate lot is not heated.

16 years without a problem here, and what seals are you talking about? It is hoses with clamps in the cooling system. The engine seals are not affected. The seals comment is based on nothing but imagination.

Also is your freezer set to -20F? If not it won't tell you a thing.

Here is part of a post by Bake's Marine who is well trusted on this board on a similar thread found here

"View PostREW, on October 12, 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:

I'm really glad somebody shares that opinion... You won't ever see Bake's using anti freeze to winterize a boat.

You bet, there a lot of customers that self winterize and we always end up replacing something because they "thought" they ran enough anti freeze through the system.

-Paul

Paul Gregoire

Bake's Marine

www.bakesonline.com

[email protected]"

425-392-7599

Edited by rjgogo

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Slayer

16 years without a problem here, and what seals are you talking about? It is hoses with clamps in the cooling system. The engine seals are not affected. The seals comment is based on nothing but imagination.

Also is your freezer set to -20F? If not it won't tell you a thing.

Here is part of a post by Bake's Marine who is well trusted on this board on a similar thread found here

"View PostREW, on October 12, 2011 - 04:18 AM, said:

I'm really glad somebody shares that opinion... You won't ever see Bake's using anti freeze to winterize a boat.

You bet, there a lot of customers that self winterize and we always end up replacing something because they "thought" they ran enough anti freeze through the system.

-Paul

Paul Gregoire

Bake's Marine

www.bakesonline.com

[email protected].com"

425-392-7599

Points well taken. Looks like I'll be draining this weekend......

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Sixball

"16 years without a problem here, and what seals are you talking about? It is hoses with clamps in the cooling system. The engine seals are not affected. The seals comment is based on nothing but imagination. "

Not a bad start but I have been doing it for 45 years and never had a problem. your water pumps have seals and bearings or am I imagining that.

If you do your job well you will not have a problem and it cuts down on rust and coarsen.

In the end I have seen more people try to sink boats because they have forgotten to close or tighten something after leaving everything open. To many people are to exceeded to get back on the water.

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Slayer

"16 years without a problem here, and what seals are you talking about? It is hoses with clamps in the cooling system. The engine seals are not affected. The seals comment is based on nothing but imagination. "

Not a bad start but I have been doing it for 45 years and never had a problem. your water pumps have seals and bearings or am I imagining that.

If you do your job well you will not have a problem and it cuts down on rust and coarsen.

In the end I have seen more people try to sink boats because they have forgotten to close or tighten something after leaving everything open. To many people are to exceeded to get back on the water.

I see the benefit of both methods, really. I guess the question I have for you, Sixball, is how can I tell if I did it correctly?

My steps exactly were as follows:

  1. Start the boat and let it warm up.
  2. Idle around the lake
  3. Did a couple of hot laps at various speeds
  4. Pulled the boat out of the water
  5. Drained and changed engine oil and transmission fluid
  6. Ran the boat at idle speed on the hose for about 20 minutes.
  7. Drained the block
  8. After water stopped draining from the block and exhaust manifolds, I put all plugs back in, put the knock sensor back in, filled the raw water intake hose with pink antifreeze, started the boat, and ran it while continuing to add antifreeze.

The strange thing is that I ran it on the hose for as long as I did and it never got to 160*. It only got to about 150*. From my experience with this particular boat since I bought it, the only time I have seen 160* on the gauge is after a hot lap or after pulling a skier. Within a few seconds, it goes back down to about 150*. Considering that I have never seen greater than 150* at idle in this boat, I assumed that the engine was hot enough to have the stat open up when I cycled antifreeze.

So again, did I do it correctly given the above and the route of putting antifreeze in from your experience, Sixball? Just curious. I'm not here to debate the good and bad about either method, but more interested to see if what I did was appropriate or if the "safe" thing to do is drain it.

Edited by inlandlaker

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rjgogo

"16 years without a problem here, and what seals are you talking about? It is hoses with clamps in the cooling system. The engine seals are not affected. The seals comment is based on nothing but imagination. "

Not a bad start but I have been doing it for 45 years and never had a problem. your water pumps have seals and bearings or am I imagining that.

If you do your job well you will not have a problem and it cuts down on rust and coarsen.

In the end I have seen more people try to sink boats because they have forgotten to close or tighten something after leaving everything open. To many people are to exceeded to get back on the water.

You are imagining that it makes a difference. They are fresh water cooled, and in an open system. If you choose to pollute our lakes and rivers with the residual antifreeze that stays in the system, and you have dollars to burn for no reason that is up to you. It is a waste of time, resources and money, and more importantly if you do not get it exactly right something will freeze. I know I am good because there is nothing in there to freeze. Show me where in the manual it states this needs to be done. We have a well respected dealer stating it is not a good practice as well.

Also, hope you are more thorough on your maintenance than you are on your spelling. I think people are excited to get back on the water, not exceeded.

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nyryan2001

Nice. Fight season on TMC is officially open now that boating season is closed.

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Sixball

RV antifreeze does not pollute. Its used every day in drinking water systems. I am going to guess now but I bet you have done worse. Don't pee in the lake. I don,t have any residual antifreeze buy the time my boat hits the lake it has run for long enough to go through more the one thermostat cycle.

This was a question to the crew How or what do you do to winterize I am giving my opinion not telling you how to do your boat.

As for spelling I do have a problem I had a very poor education and spent much of my young life in a country that did not speak English. But if you do as well as I have in your life more power to ya!!!! I have been quite successful I hope you do as well and are as satisfied with your life when you get to my age.

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Sixball

I see the benefit of both methods, really. I guess the question I have for you, Sixball, is how can I tell if I did it correctly?

My steps exactly were as follows:

  1. Start the boat and let it warm up.
  2. Idle around the lake
  3. Did a couple of hot laps at various speeds
  4. Pulled the boat out of the water
  5. Drained and changed engine oil and transmission fluid
  6. Ran the boat at idle speed on the hose for about 20 minutes.
  7. Drained the block
  8. After water stopped draining from the block and exhaust manifolds, I put all plugs back in, put the knock sensor back in, filled the raw water intake hose with pink antifreeze, started the boat, and ran it while continuing to add antifreeze.

I do almost the same. I do add stabil before I make our last runs. I pull the hose with the trans heat exchanger off and dump the water out of it. It sits low and does not drain. I also clean the screen in the heat exchanger at this time. I then fill the block with RV antifreeze. I pull the hoses at the thermostat block and fill until it comes to the top at the other side.

I also pull the hoses that feed water to the exhaust and poor antifreeze until it comes out of the exhaust.

When I change the oil I fill the new filter with oil and let it sit a short time and refill until it stops sucking up oil. This will give the engine fresh oil at start up.

I think what you are doing is fine. Did you get antifreeze out of the exhaust?

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Slayer

I did add stabil before our last runs. I did get antifreeze out of the exhaust as well. I also cleaned the screen but did not remove the cooler and dump it. I did pull all the hoses and drained everything prior to adding antifreeze.

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vette-ski

I see you are a local inlandlaker so I'll chime in. Is your profile pic on Woodland? I get out there quite often. Anyway, if you got all of the water out, you should be fine even if you didn't get all of it filled with a/f. However, my gut feel is that if you put in 5 gallons, that's a lot of a/f to only fill the exhaust (which is all that would fill if the t-stat is bypassed....ie closed). I typically use 3 gallons, but I don't do the running method. I just dump it in various places when I get done draining. I dump some down my heater lines into the core, dump some in both exhaust manifolds, and dump some in the top of my intake via the heater line. This way I don't have to worry about whether or not the t-stat is open. I fill the block through the intake. And like above, I'll tell you how I do it, not how you should do it. I leave the a/f in and seal it all up so it's ready to run next spring. One reason is for convenience. I did the drain once and why do it again. In the spring, I just hook up water and let it run out in driveway before first trip to the lake. That's a lot easier than doing a drain and cleaning a/f out of the bilge of the boat. I'm also not sure I subscribe to the idea that if you leave plugs out it will prevent a crack because the system is then "open". Our cooling systems are open anyway at both ends. I *think*, although someone will probably prove me wrong, that water expands in all directions when it freezes. So if you have an area that holds water and freezes from the top down, when the bottom freezes, it will only expand through the block in the form of a crack. I figure in a typical drain there will always be a small pocket of water left behind somewhere in the motor. Dumping in some a/f will ensure that those pockets get some sort of freeze protection. It definitely can't hurt things. I'm wondering if the people Bake's referred to in thier post didn't drain first and just sucked a/f into a motor full of water??? Also don't get alarmed if you drain a cup from your motor and it gets slushy in your freezer. The pink a/f can get slushy right out of the jug.

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Woodski

On the T-stat question, many are drilled to allow flow through the stat before the engine is warmed up so that there is always water flowing through the exhaust system. There are also different methods used by the different marinizers, Mercruisers have the spring ball setup in the T-stat housing. That will allow water to fill the block when the stat is closed. You can always check by leaving the side plug out or open in the block and see if you get some fluid out when filling with the stat closed, the amount should also help determine if fluid is going in the block. You can always fill via different hoses separately (exhaust manifolds as an example).

Another area for water to freeze, the exhaust system, simply make sure the boat gets tilted nose high to drain. Not heard of it, but you could crack the exhaust pipes in a freeze situation.

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Slayer

I see you are a local inlandlaker so I'll chime in. Is your profile pic on Woodland? I get out there quite often. Anyway, if you got all of the water out, you should be fine even if you didn't get all of it filled with a/f. However, my gut feel is that if you put in 5 gallons, that's a lot of a/f to only fill the exhaust (which is all that would fill if the t-stat is bypassed....ie closed). I typically use 3 gallons, but I don't do the running method. I just dump it in various places when I get done draining. I dump some down my heater lines into the core, dump some in both exhaust manifolds, and dump some in the top of my intake via the heater line. This way I don't have to worry about whether or not the t-stat is open. I fill the block through the intake. And like above, I'll tell you how I do it, not how you should do it. I leave the a/f in and seal it all up so it's ready to run next spring. One reason is for convenience. I did the drain once and why do it again. In the spring, I just hook up water and let it run out in driveway before first trip to the lake. That's a lot easier than doing a drain and cleaning a/f out of the bilge of the boat. I'm also not sure I subscribe to the idea that if you leave plugs out it will prevent a crack because the system is then "open". Our cooling systems are open anyway at both ends. I *think*, although someone will probably prove me wrong, that water expands in all directions when it freezes. So if you have an area that holds water and freezes from the top down, when the bottom freezes, it will only expand through the block in the form of a crack. I figure in a typical drain there will always be a small pocket of water left behind somewhere in the motor. Dumping in some a/f will ensure that those pockets get some sort of freeze protection. It definitely can't hurt things. I'm wondering if the people Bake's referred to in thier post didn't drain first and just sucked a/f into a motor full of water??? Also don't get alarmed if you drain a cup from your motor and it gets slushy in your freezer. The pink a/f can get slushy right out of the jug.

Thanks for the response. The pic is not on Woodland. I live on Ore.

I'm quite positive that I got all the water out with the exception of any minor amount that remained after the drain. Right after all the dripping stopped, I poured the A/F into the raw water intake, started it, and ran it at idle until I got pink out of the exhaust. I suspect that I actually used just over 4 gallons prior it starting to come out of the exhaust. I tend to agree with you that the exhaust would likely not hold 5 gallons of A/F. I didn't run any math to determine that specifically, but it would seem excessive. I presume you use the pink stuff as well?

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Slayer

On the T-stat question, many are drilled to allow flow through the stat before the engine is warmed up so that there is always water flowing through the exhaust system. There are also different methods used by the different marinizers, Mercruisers have the spring ball setup in the T-stat housing. That will allow water to fill the block when the stat is closed. You can always check by leaving the side plug out or open in the block and see if you get some fluid out when filling with the stat closed, the amount should also help determine if fluid is going in the block. You can always fill via different hoses separately (exhaust manifolds as an example).

Another area for water to freeze, the exhaust system, simply make sure the boat gets tilted nose high to drain. Not heard of it, but you could crack the exhaust pipes in a freeze situation.

Thanks, Woodski! I have this part covered.

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Michigan boarder

WTH, I'll throw in my 2 cents too! Regardless, I think you got it covered.

At this time, my engine is warm has been fogged & stabilized, oil is draining, and the engine will not be run again until next season.

Starboard side: I remove the drain plug on the side of the engine. I remove and drain the hose going from the impellar to the transcooler, at the transcooler. Clean the screen. I then remove and drain the hose going to the manifold at the manifold. I reattach hoses and leave the plug out.

Front: I remove the large hose that goes to the pulley, at the end just under the oil dipstick and drain that.

Port side: I remove the drain plug on the side of the engine. I remove and drain the hose going to the manifold at the manifold. The raw water hose is already disconnected from me putting a hose in it, I drain that too. I reattach hoses and leave the plug out.

At this point all hoses are connected and 2 plugs are out. I diconnect the large hose on the front of the engine at the point just above the oil dipstick (almost on the top of the engine). I pour antifreeze in until it comes out of the 2 plugs. I then re-install the plugs. I then continue pouring antifreeze in the same hose until it comes out of the exhaust.

Reattach hoses and that's it. I am on the fence as to whether it's really worth it to bother with the antifreeze. I have never done it before with any other boat, and only started doing it with this one cuz some people said to. Then when pulling my thermostat there was a TON of corrosion inside, so I do feel better with the antifreeze hoping it well head off some corrosion. So bottom line I'm sure you are OK.

Edit: I use 4.5 gallons of AF before it comes out of the exhaust.

Edited by Michigan boarder

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