Hard Core Slalom Boats

1 Boat · January 21, 2006

I have often thought that the reason I am drawn so much to slalom skiing comes down the the fact that I am an engineer and not an 'artsy-fartsy' type (no offense to anyone out there ).

I don't have an ounce of the creativity and sheer athleticism that appears to be required to execute the various tricks I see you wakeboarders pulling off. It's just not me. In fact I am impressed as he!! to watch a good wakeboarder.

For me, slalom is more of an engineering discipline. Precision, repeatability, angles, speed, fin adjustments, rope length. It just appeals to me. And I am amazed to watch someone ripping through 41' off at 36mph.

This is not to say that wakeboarding doesn't require precision, repeatability, angles,... It's not to say that slalom doesn't require athleticism. Each discipline is different, and can be marvelled at in their own way.

I've been PO'd by both skiers and boarders during a 7AM set on our lake. Unfortunately, our course is in an area that is not well sheltered. But there are plenty of other areas on our lake to ski or board if one is not interested in the course. I get PO'd when someone has no regard for this fact at all, regardless of what discipline they practice.

Oh, and Hank - if the shoe fits...

Edited January 21, 2006 by SunriseH2OSkier

January 21, 2006

Sunrise,

You may have hit the nail on the head, at least for me too. I never put it together like you did, but I'm an engineer too and we folks are a little different. I guess the discipline and the basic physics of slalom appeals to me too.

Very interesting idea. Almost all of the slalom course jockeys that I know are professional guys that have initials behind their names. I guess that makes me a stuck-up yuppie, but I more of a knuckle draggin red-neck, like Galaxy!

January 21, 2006

I don't have the creativity to wakeboard. I'm a direction guy. Somebody tells me to go ski around the orange balls, that I can understand. I have alot of respect for the folks that can do those cool tricks on a board. Way above what I can do.

Sunrise is spot on. For those that love slalom its because it suits them. When it suits you, you are good at it. The same goes for wakeboarding.

The only objection I take is the description of slalom as boring. No, no. Not boring. I get an amazing rush doing it. The only thing that equals it is strapping yourself in a race car waiting for the green. Again, to each their own.

Over,

January 21, 2006

I bought a VLX after resisting for quite some time. The reason for the purchase included comfort, size, and quiet excecution of a whole lot engine power. I ski with a local ski club which only allows 2 boats at the course at any given time. In short I get the best of both worlds, tiny stripped, light ski boats with very little wake for skiing. A huge quiet comfortable whale of a boat for the many hours and days that my family

enjoys at the lake.

As far as why there are more VDs out there it's quite simple to explain for Malibu. Malibu does not prebuild very many boats (just a few promos and testers). All the rest are ordered by Dealers for spec sale or as custom orders. As a buisness man I'd say give the customer what he or she wants.

Rude Boaters: In my opinion if you can't have a great time at the lake on the most blownout, overcast, and overcrowded day then you are doing something wrong and should have stayed at home and watched the TV.

Joe

January 21, 2006

BTW, Tony, do you really think the slalom skiers here possess alot of pent up hatred?...seems rather strong and I certainly apologize if I or any others have come across that way on this forum. I guess we've hit another topic too sensitive to joke about?

Honestly, when I read some of the posts here, yeah, I do believe some do. You know it's one thing to joke about vd vs. dd or wakeboarding vs. slalom skiing. It's another to let pure hatred type your words on this forum because someone with long hair and loud music messed up your water one morning. Malibudude and myself have had a light humored ribbing going on for years about which is better. It's never been anything other than that and I think he respects what I do and I do respect what he does. I came on this thread to respond to GT's post - a post I felt very strongly about/against, not to start a which is better or easier bash. It has digressed quite a bit since then.

2,432 · January 21, 2006

One thing that this thread got me thinking about was how many manufacturers make a pure slalom machine anymore. You can just about count it on one hand - Malibu, CC, MC, MB Sports....who else? At least the ones that pull the major tournies? And for you slalom people, what more would you want out of a boat? Obviosly flatter & softer wakes, but with every evolution that the Big 3 make, they get a bit better (although it could be argued that the step that CC made from the TSC 1 to the TSC 2 was not a good one, but then again TR isn't here to make the argument ). I'm not saying be happy with what you have because as good as the Big 3 have gotten, their products can always be improved upon. I guess what I'm asking is what are you looking for out of your boat & if you could change anything what would it be?

January 21, 2006

I have a feeling that quite a few people are starting to get jumpy because of boatshow season. I know that I can't wait to hit the water after the Portland show last weekend. It's amazing how much more fun it is to talk about boating when you can actually go out and do it. (the Texas crowd may not know of which I speak)

Joe

January 21, 2006

Can't you two just go to the same room and talk?

January 21, 2006

Can't you two just go to the same room and talk?

You obviously haven't noticed how much Tracie is on this board. I sometimes have to PM her to get her attention.

Joe

January 21, 2006

BTW, Tony, do you really think the slalom skiers here possess alot of pent up hatred?
Honestly, when I read some of the posts here, yeah, I do believe some do.

After I read your comment Tony I have to admit that I was puzzled because I didn't remember there being anything truly "hateful" here, in this thread or in others. I went back and reread the entire thread (thinking maybe I had missed something) and the only aggressive or mean-spirited posts in the thread are below (notice I said aggressive or mean-spirited because I don't believe that they qualify as "hateful"):

...skiers resent the fact that wakeboarding is becoming more popular than skiing...I quit skiing because it is boring...you cut left and then you cut right and then you cut back left. The only progression is shortening the rope...Its not that I am rebelling against old timers...

That's the kind of attitude that ticks me off. Why is it that you think you own the lake? You just said your basically fine as long as no one else is there. It sounds more like you just want to b!tC# and everyone is an easy target. Go buy 100 acres, build your own lake and then complain when someone messes up your water. Until then, your going to have to deal with other people just like everyone else does...

...when I got back in the boat I told my buddies man did you just see me ski around those buoys, wasn't that exciting. The fact is no, it wasn't exciting, it was boring. Skiing is one dimensional...It seems like skiers are jealous of wakeboarding's popularity...I know skiing is difficult...but that doesnt change the fact that it is a boring sport. Most people I know see skiers as stuck-up yuppies that think they are better than everyone...

No skiers there.

The only skier vs WB ribbing that I recall around here has been good-natured for the most part, certainly nothing that I would qualify as hatred but maybe I missed that thread. You want to see some hatred? Try being a Christian in America today. (Not a Hi-Jack, just a comment, don't anyone get your p@nties in a wad)

January 21, 2006

BTW, Tony, do you really think the slalom skiers here possess alot of pent up hatred?
Honestly, when I read some of the posts here, yeah, I do believe some do.
After I read your comment Tony I have to admit that I was puzzled because I didn't remember there being anything truly "hateful" here, in this thread or in others. I went back and reread the entire thread (thinking maybe I had missed something) and the only aggressive or mean-spirited posts in the thread are below (notice I said aggressive or mean-spirited because I don't believe that they qualify as "hateful"):
...skiers resent the fact that wakeboarding is becoming more popular than skiing...I quit skiing because it is boring...you cut left and then you cut right and then you cut back left. The only progression is shortening the rope...Its not that I am rebelling against old timers...
That's the kind of attitude that ticks me off. Why is it that you think you own the lake? You just said your basically fine as long as no one else is there. It sounds more like you just want to b!tC# and everyone is an easy target. Go buy 100 acres, build your own lake and then complain when someone messes up your water. Until then, your going to have to deal with other people just like everyone else does...
...when I got back in the boat I told my buddies man did you just see me ski around those buoys, wasn't that exciting. The fact is no, it wasn't exciting, it was boring. Skiing is one dimensional...It seems like skiers are jealous of wakeboarding's popularity...I know skiing is difficult...but that doesnt change the fact that it is a boring sport. Most people I know see skiers as stuck-up yuppies that think they are better than everyone...
No skiers there.
The only skier vs WB ribbing that I recall around here has been good-natured for the most part, certainly nothing that I would qualify as hatred but maybe I missed that thread. You want to see some hatred? Try being a Christian in America today. (Not a Hi-Jack, just a comment, don't anyone get your p@nties in a wad)

I agree.

Heck, a lot of DD owners own wakeboards. I've got 3, if you include my pink Skurfer.

January 22, 2006

BTW, Tony, do you really think the slalom skiers here possess alot of pent up hatred?
Honestly, when I read some of the posts here, yeah, I do believe some do.
After I read your comment Tony I have to admit that I was puzzled because I didn't remember there being anything truly "hateful" here, in this thread or in others. I went back and reread the entire thread (thinking maybe I had missed something) and the only aggressive or mean-spirited posts in the thread are below (notice I said aggressive or mean-spirited because I don't believe that they qualify as "hateful"):
...skiers resent the fact that wakeboarding is becoming more popular than skiing...I quit skiing because it is boring...you cut left and then you cut right and then you cut back left. The only progression is shortening the rope...Its not that I am rebelling against old timers...
That's the kind of attitude that ticks me off. Why is it that you think you own the lake? You just said your basically fine as long as no one else is there. It sounds more like you just want to b!tC# and everyone is an easy target. Go buy 100 acres, build your own lake and then complain when someone messes up your water. Until then, your going to have to deal with other people just like everyone else does...
...when I got back in the boat I told my buddies man did you just see me ski around those buoys, wasn't that exciting. The fact is no, it wasn't exciting, it was boring. Skiing is one dimensional...It seems like skiers are jealous of wakeboarding's popularity...I know skiing is difficult...but that doesnt change the fact that it is a boring sport. Most people I know see skiers as stuck-up yuppies that think they are better than everyone...
No skiers there.
The only skier vs WB ribbing that I recall around here has been good-natured for the most part, certainly nothing that I would qualify as hatred but maybe I missed that thread. You want to see some hatred? Try being a Christian in America today. (Not a Hi-Jack, just a comment, don't anyone get your p@nties in a wad)

Well, you obviouly have a different prespective than I do.

January 22, 2006

I am also an engineer, and I too appreciate the precision required in skiing a course. I guess one of the reasons I stopped skiing so much was the fact that I wasnt progressing as fast I would have liked. You really have to practice quite a bit to just stay at the same level and I just dont have the time. I also understand the negative stereotypes of wakeboarders, I have pretty much quit going to wakeboarder.com because I feel like I am in Junior High everytime I visit that sight. Its nice to come to a forum where everyone is an adult and I must say the good natured arguments are quite enjoyable. I think one of the reasons for skiers being negative toward wakeboarders is the fact that the majority of skiers have worked hard and payed for their own equipment where many of the wakeboarders I know are cruising around in daddy's boat and really dont appreciate what they have. I am sorry if I have upset some of you and I appreciate the adult manor in which most everyone has handled the good natured ribbing. Lets just all remember this is the internet and everything written must be taken with a grain of salt. With that said, all you die hard skiers just need to go ahead and admit that wakeboarding is ten times harder than skiing and our sport is better than yours. And NorCaliBu, you are no longer invited to my birthday party.

2,432 · January 22, 2006

Oh you're going to get along just fine here.

January 22, 2006

Not sure about that, Tracie. His posts are too long and he forgot to say

January 22, 2006

Getting hot in here.

I learned long ago somehow you gotta just go with the flow. Bend with the wind.... not resist.

When it's quiet and flat, the BU is out pulling skiers.

When there's a gazillion people over with lots of kids..... I too pull out the triple tube and tear around the lake.

And as painful as this is to say.... my little guys like to wakeboard.... so we do that too

When it's windy, the power boats get tucked away and out comes the old 16' HobieCat.

And as the sun goes down, I hope to find myself (if I locate one at the right price) a pontoon party boat. Or in the canoe.

What's my point? As much as I try and be courtious to other folks on the lake, and not be a lake-hog, or tear up the water for other folks, I'm sure just the fact that I'm out there bothers folks who would just rather sit on their dock and listen to the loons instead of the vroom of my V8, or the howls of kids laughter as they tumble from the tube. And on the windy days when I almost run the Hobie onto each shore (to take full advantage of the wind and/or negotiate my tack), the neighbors dogs go nuts not knowing what this strange craft with a sail that sticks up 26 feet is doing so close to their domain.

I borrowed/installed a slalom course in front of my summer place a few years ago. Was a great addition. At least I thought so. Until a couple of lake-folks stopped by and asked if it could be removed. They didn't like how it got in the way of where they trolled at night fishing. They were right. As much as the skier in me enjoyed the course so close.... I had become a temporary "lake-hog" for a weekend.... I had staked a "claim" on the lake 2000' feet long... and kind of "expected" folks to stay clear. Not really fair on my part. So, I took the course away. Some of my ski-buddies don't get it.... they think everybody would love to see the course back. Kind of tunnel vision.

It's a combination of live and let live, walk a mile in my shoes, careful who throws stones etc etc at work here.

But then again, why do those darned wakeboarders drive those huge wakes onto my beach all day long (unlike the skiboat's 4" ripples)..... and does everybody behind a wakeboard boat with a tower and mega speakers think I want to hear their music all day long. Nope.

Edited January 22, 2006 by doughickey

January 22, 2006

Well, you obviouly have a different prespective than I do.

Usually seems to be that way. Doesn't mean we can't be friends.

With that said, all you die hard skiers just need to go ahead and admit that wakeboarding is ten times harder than skiing and our sport is better than yours.

Your reasoning is proof of the brain damage that can be sustained in those hard wakeboard falls.

And NorCaliBu, you are no longer invited to my birthday party.

. . . .And this is the year that you're having that big purple dinosaur at your party too.

January 23, 2006

Well, you obviouly have a different prespective than I do.
Usually seems to be that way. Doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Friends huh? With a slalom skier? And a religious man? Your pushing my limits but what the heck. Maybe I'll even learn something!

January 23, 2006

Friends huh? With a slalom skier? And a religious man? Your pushing my limits but what the heck. Maybe I'll even learn something!

- - - - - - - -

We can all learn from each other. [group hug emoticon]---------------->

January 23, 2006

All the slalom skiers have left the public waterways to the yahoo's in the cabin cruisers they call wakeboard boats. sking is alive and well it has just gone underground (private lakes ). The more I learn the more poor boat handling and drunken stereo tubers I see on the lakes. In some places it has become dangerous to ski. People on waverunners trying to shake your hand or something. I see some wakeboarders doing some fantastic stuff, but most I see are Idiots. Yeah you get bitter sometimes. My rant take it or leave it.

January 23, 2006

Great Scot...just when things were getting warm and fuzzy again...

January 23, 2006

All the slalom skiers have left the public waterways to the yahoo's in the cabin cruisers they call wakeboard boats. skiing is alive and well it has just gone underground (private lakes )....

That is where I went but it didn't help.

I bought a house on a private lake where they outlawed PWCs and boats larger than 20 ft (just right for an Old School RLX or Sportster). A 28 ft Pontoon boat is also cool as a family cruiser if a 20 ft runabout is not large enough for your family. The lakes committee has put an end to wake enhancement devices to save my shoreline and steep loud stereo fines have really put an end to the Yahoos with their 2000 watt stereos.

We still have problems though...The party barge scene has gotten out of control. The lake is under siege by Red Neck Wally Captains on their 300HP barges (complete with tiki torches and built in ice chests the size coffins) partying on, Hooting and Hollering all night with their Mates under the guise of cat fishing!

There are obnoxious people everywhere. You can’t legislate them away...they just change their sport.

1,080 · January 23, 2006

BTW, Tony, do you really think the slalom skiers here possess alot of pent up hatred?...seems rather strong and I certainly apologize if I or any others have come across that way on this forum. I guess we've hit another topic too sensitive to joke about?
Honestly, when I read some of the posts here, yeah, I do believe some do. You know it's one thing to joke about vd vs. dd or wakeboarding vs. slalom skiing. It's another to let pure hatred type your words on this forum because someone with long hair and loud music messed up your water one morning. Malibudude and myself have had a light humored ribbing going on for years about which is better. It's never been anything other than that and I think he respects what I do and I do respect what he does. I came on this thread to respond to GT's post - a post I felt very strongly about/against, not to start a which is better or easier bash. It has digressed quite a bit since then.

That's right buddy you'll see the shtick is better one day, I still have hope for you, but we do agree on good beer. What if you have long hair, have a DD, slalom ski, and play loud music? Seriously, I do respect the talent and courage for WB to pull some of those tricks. Would I rather ski like Mapple, sure and do prefer it but doesn't mean I can't admire the talent and determination of other disciplines minus tubing of course.

January 23, 2006

That's right buddy you'll see the shtick is better one day, I still have hope for you, but we do agree on good beer.

I got a shtick for ya buddy! Right here! I mean you already converted me from VD to DDD (dual direct drives)

Nothing like a good beer to bring two grown men together!

January 23, 2006

BTW, Tony, do you really think the slalom skiers here possess alot of pent up hatred?...seems rather strong and I certainly apologize if I or any others have come across that way on this forum. I guess we've hit another topic too sensitive to joke about?

I came on this thread to respond to GT's post - a post I felt very strongly about/against, not to start a which is better or easier bash.

I'm on here to learn, share my experiences, and sometimes share what I believe in. I have no hate for anyone. If I allowed hate to fester it would consume me completely because I can't leave anything undone. My post of the 4 types of people I see on the water here is nothing but the facts. I'm not making the news, just reporting it.
Please don't classify my feelings toward the irresponsible people I meet as 'hatred', that would be the wrong word. It's disappointment. I'm fundamentally disappointed every time I run across someone with no sense of themselves as part of a greater whole. On the job, around town, on the water, on the highway...The people who take no responsibility for the effect that their actions have on others. I fight hard, and have done so for many years, to preserve the place that those people thrive. I would just rather see them elect to behave responsibly instead of exploiting it in the name of entertainment.
If I thought for a minute this was going to somehow polarize the entire crew and start a 'mine is bigger than yours' I never would have bothered.
Bottom line: I am fundamentally disappointed in the conduct of our wakeriders in SW Buttcrack Ohio. I also don't see it getting much better anytime soon because it has become some sort of haven and banner for the young rebels who really don't have any reason to rebel ($60K boat, gas in the tank, nice gear, how bad can it be?)
I'm still going to call you for a wakeskate lesson Tony. You'll have your chance to pay me back in spades then if you so desire.

GT - no worries, we're good.

Wakeskate lesson #1. You want to get good on a wakeskate? Get good on a wakeboard first. Learning the fundamentals such as: Loading the line, pogressive edging, pop, handle placement, etc. will make learning to wakeskate much easier. (I don't know your personal background on a board - of any type: skateboard, snowboard, surfboard, indoboard, wakeboard, etc...) but the learning curve for someone just starting out on a wakeskate is much longer than someone who has the fundamentals already down. Again, not knowing the level your at and what you want to learn it's difficult to tell you much more. So just saying if you want to learn to wakeskate take every preseason chance you get to hop on a wakeboard just to get used to the feeling of turning and standing sideways, it will make your wakeskating experience much better.

On a side note:

I know that I'm part of a sport that is practiced by many irresponsible young adults. But I ride with a set of guys that understand courtesy, boat paths, wake dissapation, and respect for other boaters. I enjoy riding on glass and usually end up in remote areas where I don't see a lot of the wallies. (anymore - but I could tell you stories about years gone by)

Edited January 23, 2006 by aneal000

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